w231 powder?


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sjones63
November 8, 2006, 10:05 PM
Are they still making it?I haven't seen any listed anywhere lately. sj

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The Bushmaster
November 8, 2006, 10:11 PM
Check with Hodgdon Powders. They bought Winchester powders out and carry it on their web site. It's still being manufactured.

sjones63
November 8, 2006, 10:17 PM
do reloading stores carry it or do you have to order from hogdon?thanks sj

IDriveB5
November 8, 2006, 10:32 PM
As far as I know it'sstill being manufactured. Bought some a couple weeks ago while I was in Va.

http://www.wwpowder.com/

The Bushmaster
November 8, 2006, 10:39 PM
Should be able to find it in any reloading supply store...

Jim Watson
November 8, 2006, 11:30 PM
You get some funny things on the Internet.
Hodgdon got the distribution rights to Winchester powders. They did not buy the factory, which is now a General Dynamics subsidiary at St Marks, Florida.
Hodgdon doesn't have an "exact copy" of Win 231, they put the HP38 label on powder coming off the same production line as 231 at St Marks. It IS W231 and I have seen kegs labeled outside as HP38 with a 231 packing slip inside. There is still some lot to lot difference, my present can of HP38 takes about .2 grain less than my last little bit of 231 for the same velocity.

Steve C
November 9, 2006, 12:00 AM
I saw some of the new packaged W231 in the gunshop last weekend. Its now in a round plastic can like the Hodgdon powders come in rather than the square plastic can that was marketed by Winchester.

bakert
November 9, 2006, 12:50 AM
The last I bought about 6 mos ago was a couple of one pound plastic jugs with handle as it had been for a while. Didn't even know anything had changed.

db_tanker
November 9, 2006, 07:17 AM
HP 38 from Hodgdon is the same powder, diffrent bottle. W231 is still pretty plentiful around here..

jubo
November 9, 2006, 02:24 PM
HP38 is Win231 eh?... didn't know that.

Now the fun part, to see just how much the local stores are gonna gouge for the Hodgdon... and hearing all sorts of GREAT explainations from the morons at the counter on why it should be so! ha ha.:evil:

Interesting to note my Speer manual lists both (for9mm)... with slight differences.

I love these forums.

db_tanker
November 9, 2006, 02:35 PM
yep...

HP-38 = W231
HS-6 = W540
HS-7 = W571
H110 = W296
Ramshot Silhouette = WAP

They play nice...like to share and such. :)

D

The Bushmaster
November 9, 2006, 03:17 PM
Oh Lord.....:(

db_tanker
November 9, 2006, 04:18 PM
What?

I am trying to bring a bit of joy as well as pass on some somewhat decent info.


I guess I did sound a bit like Mr. Rogers. :p


D

kansas45
November 9, 2006, 11:09 PM
I bought some W231 just last week & they had plenty on hand.

GooseGestapo
November 10, 2006, 12:42 AM
The above references to Win231=HP38 are true.
I've seen the 110lb cannisters of HP38, and they have the St.Marks labels and Win231 lot#'s on them.

As with most sperical/ball powders, there is a slightly greater lot-to-lot variation than with the extruded powders.

I'm still trying to find a lot that equals the Win231 I bought back in 1997. I won SOOOOOO many matches with that 8lb keg. When it was gone, my 9mm and .38spl groups haven't been the same since. Although a recent batch almost equaled it.

Now trying to use up 38lbs of Bullseye I "inherited".
5yrs and probably 4 to go!!!

The-Fly
November 10, 2006, 02:28 AM
i use w231 for my 9mm and 38spl loads. Love that stuff. Clean burning, meters well. I am using 4.5gr with 124gr bullet for 9mm and 4.6gr with 125gr bullet for 38spl. Gives me about 1100fps out of my G17 and about 950fps out of my 6" 357 mag.

IDriveB5
November 10, 2006, 07:59 AM
The above references to Win231=HP38 are true.
Nice to know.

jaysouth
November 13, 2006, 12:24 AM
My 'universal' load is 5.0 grs of 231 or HP-38 under 125 JHP in .38, 115 FMJ in 9mm or 200 gr. lead SWC in .45.

If you worked at it, there would be a more efficient powder for each of the loads above, but no other powder would work as well for the three.

In my part of the country, there is a popular wisdom that there is NO lot to lot variation in 231. I have only been able to shoot up about 6 pounds of it from the same jug, so I can't comment first hand.

CZ57
November 13, 2006, 01:24 PM
I've heard about the pictures of Hodgdon and Winchester powders coming from the same drum, but if you ask Hodgdon, or visit their website, the only two crossovers that they claim are truly identical are 540/HS-6 and 571/HS-7. This is a very good reason to own a manual that shows pressure data. If you have one, it will show differences in max load charges and pressures for 231/HP-38 and 296/H-110. Many believe that 760 is H414. The pressure ranges just don't back that up. Primex was the manufacturer for Hodgdon and Winchester powders and although some powders were very similar as far as the "source" powder, they were made to slightly different spec's for each powder company.

Someone mentioned that Ramshot Silhouette = WAP and that is the case. Winchester dropped WAP and Western Powder Co. obtained the rights to sell it as Ramshot Silhouette. All of this can be confirmed and should be, someone thinking that they can use HP-38 in place of 231 and trying to use 231 data could get into trouble.

Ramshot Zip is a very close powder in burn rate to 231, but is much cleaner. Ramshot's data is lackluster, but if you have a manual that gives data for Zip, it's worth a look!

IDriveB5
November 16, 2006, 12:40 PM
Looking in Lee#2:
125gr XTP HP38 start: 4.3gr :: 826fps ::: MAX 4.9gr :: 934fps ::: 16300 CUP

Looking at WW's website:
125gr XTP W231 start: 4.3gr :: 826fps ::: MAX 4.9gr :: 934fps ::: 16300 CUP

A few others are also the same.

However, according to to my my Lee Pro Auto-Disk chart, the VMD for HP38 is 0.0926 and WW231 is 0.0931.

I would say that these two powders behave similarly, but are not the same powder. I would not trust that one can be substituted for the other in all cases.

Dr. Dickie
November 16, 2006, 12:57 PM
Sure, but was that BEFORE Hodgsons bought out Winchester powder?
Since they were so close before hand, I doubt they are making two different, yet so similar powders (kinda like Duff, Duff extra, Duff light, etc.).

IDriveB5
November 16, 2006, 01:05 PM
Its certainly possible, possibly a call could confirm or deny this rumor.

highlander 5
November 16, 2006, 04:47 PM
I just bought 4lbs of 231 less than a month ago though the container says "Winchester"

IDriveB5
November 16, 2006, 11:44 PM
Youre absolutely correct: it says Winchester.

Go to Winchester's powder website:
http://www.wwpowder.com/

Company Information

Hodgdon Powder Co. has licensed the Winchester® Smokeless Propellant brand. These same great powders are available in a new line of bottles and shipping cases.

CZ57
November 18, 2006, 01:33 PM
Check a Lyman manual. SPEER doesn't list pressure data, but max charges vary enough to illustrate the point. If these powders were identical, they would have an identical Volumetric Density. The VMD IDriveB5 gave is for cc/grains. Since VMD is also given in grams/liter, those numbers become even more significant. As far as the buyout theory: why bother labelling two different powders if they're identical when you own both labels? Go to Hodgdon's website, they'll tell you which powders are identical.;)

Mulie
February 24, 2008, 06:11 PM
Just printed out 9mm data on both HP38 and W231 from Hodgdon' Data Center.
http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp

The two charts that I printed are identical except the powder designation. Bullet for bullet, powder weights, pressure, etc are the same.

It looks like to me that in todays powders, HP38 and W231 are identical.

Walkalong
February 25, 2008, 07:44 AM
W-231 will be around for a long. long, time.

ArchAngelCD
February 25, 2008, 06:20 PM
YES, W231 and HP-38 are now the same exact powder and this has been verified by Winchester & Hodgdon. W231 is still available all around where I am and I highly doubt it will ever go away. It is way too popular to take off the market as a brand. I did notice they changed the bottle though. Instead of the tall thin bottle with a handle it's the same round bottle used by other Hodgdon powders now. At least they kept the correct Winchester W231 colors!! LOL

I'm wondering if HP-38 is now W231 or W231 is now HP-38... Since they are now the same one of the powders had to have been dropped in favor of the other. BTW, W296 and H110 are exactly the same now too and a few other Winchester/Hodgdon combinations too.

KeithB
February 25, 2008, 10:11 PM
My dealer gets W231 all the time NP. My fav powder

kildar
February 26, 2008, 01:59 AM
I just saw 231 on my dealers shelf yesterday. As reported it's in a round container now. Prices for powder keeps going up everytime I look to buy powder and 231 is no exception. I've taken recently to buying HP-38 because it's marke $4.00 less on my dealers shelf.

ArchAngelCD
February 27, 2008, 02:03 AM
kildar,
Isn't that the strangest thing of all? Both powders are the same and now even the bottle is the same yet there is such a big price difference. I'm guessing it's because most people don't know the powders are exactly the same so the Winchester name commands a premium. I also buy the one that's cheaper at the time. I was lucky to find a 4# bottle of W231 for $61.95 a few months back. If there were more than 1 on the shelf I would have bought them all but there was only 1. Hey, with the way prices are now I was very happy to get 4 pounds of W231 for $15.50 a pound!!

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