[ForeignDude]

This is it! As excerpted from the NY Times:

“It’s not just committees — our influence within the House Democratic caucus will grow enormously,” Mr. Rangel said in an interview.

To that end, he sketched out an expansive federal agenda: Teaming up with Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg on gun control...

Mr. Schumer and other members of Congress said they could not recall another time when the New York delegation would have so much pull...

It is time to mobilize!

Pass this along to everyone you know, to every gun owner, hunter, sport-shooter, 2A supporter you can get a hold of:

(1) Skip the next two trips to the range or the next hunt, save every penny, and join NRA, Gun Owners of America, Second Amendment Foundation.
Only a sharp spike in the membership in gun rights groups will strike fear into the hearts of anti-gun Democrats and those on the fence. We must project the picture of a united, mobilized, organized force that will not yield an inch. This is no time for squabbles over tactics; squabbling is a luxury. If you can afford it, join all three organizations. Convince your spouse/partner to get his/her own membership in one of these organizations. (And don't tell me that joining is too expensive for you! The money you're using to stock up on 5.56 mm ammo will be better spent gaining membership to these organizations. Buying crates of ammo for your tricked-out AR ain't gonna be worth squat when the damn thing is banned under Brady II.)

(2) Write a letter to each of these organizations, enclosed with a check for the first year's membership fee.
Let them know that you are joining their organization to pre-empt any infringement on your right to keep and bear arms. In return, you expect them to fight, ruthlessly and tirelessly... Don't sulk, don't whine, and don't procrastinate! If you have time for a beer and movie, you've got time for this. If you want a sample letter that you can work off of, tell me and I will write something and post it on this board.

(3) Stay up to date with your organization's legislative alerts.
If you're asked to contact your Congressman with regards to pending legislation, DO IT! If you got time to go to the range, then you got time to write a letter, make a phone call, send an e-mail, or mail a postcard to protect the other side of the equation -- your gun rights.

The time to strike is NOW!

If you could go back in time, would you do your utmost to defeat NY's Sullivan Act? If you could, would you breathe your last to undo the Gun Control Act of 1968? Would you?

Well, now is our chance. This is our moment. There are no excuses. We fight now, or we hand down to our children a freedom in tatters.

So, what will it be?
Will you organize?
Will you mobilize?
Will you fight with me, for "ourselves and our Posterity"?

[Art Eatman]

Shoulda done that a year or two ago. You telling us you didn't see all this coming?

Art

[coyote_jr]

Can't I just stock up and wait for them to come get em? Then you'll see a fight buddy:scrutiny:

[Sean Dempsey]

There is a 0% chance anyone on these forums will ever point/fire their weapon at people working for the United States Government.

Seriously, what is up with all these armchair Rambo's recently? Democrats take control of congress, and suddenly its "RED DAWN"?

Waco much? Ruby Ridge much? Trust me - your guns will *not* save you if the government decides to turn against you. When they want the guns, they'll get the guns.

But, until then...

WOLVERINES!!!!!!

[longeyes]

There is a 0% chance anyone on these forums will ever point/fire their weapon at people working for the United States Government.

Seriously, what is up with all these armchair Rambo's recently? Democrats take control of congress, and suddenly its "RED DAWN"?

Waco much? Ruby Ridge much? Trust me - your guns will *not* save you if the government decides to turn against you. When they want the guns, they'll get the guns.

Glad you weren't around in the 18th century hereabouts.

I think you seriously overestimate Civil Service. And maybe PC will work for us rather than against us?

[The Guy]

Amen Art...

but hey, maybe this "defeat" is what we needed to give us a good scare and a swift boot to the posterior to get going. I hope it works, because if it doesn't, I fear this Great Experiment will fall apart and to the wayside.

[Lemon328i]

There is no particular reason to worry. They now have the rope they can hang themselves with:

1) Any problems with Iraq (and there will be) that comes from their "change of direction" such as pulling out troops, sending in more troops, dividing the country up, etc will now squarely be put on their heads.

2) Any terrorist event on US soil will now be on their heads especially if they demand the release of Guantanamo's "innocent" detainees, block wire-tapping, won't authorize aggressive interrogation, etc.

3) When the economy goes in the toilet due to their plans to raise the minimum wage while allowing illegal aliens to toil for far, far less while enjoy ing government services, they will be squarely to blame for the mass unemployment of low income and unskilled laborers.

Two years ought to be just long enough for them to hang themselves. All President Bush needs to do is to let them go ahead with some of their plans and conservative domination of government will ultimately be solidified. Sometimes you need to take a step backward to take steps forward.

[mkh100]

Sean Dempsey is right.

Look at the way they emasculated gun owners in Calofornia. I know they didn't ban all guns there. But the way certain segments have been treated is horrible ! Google the treatment of 50 cal owners out there......they have been raided, imprisoned, forced to defend themselves in court. Not one has fired a shot, gunowners are NOT leaving California in droves.....they are adjusting to the new rules sent down by papa sugar.

For it to matter, widespread disobedience and retaliation would be the only course. Your foolish to think it will occur.

They will start with the obviously "evil" guns, people will turn them in. A few scattered shootouts with police will occur and those guys will be branded as criminals (after their death most likely). Handguns will go next....see California for this, there is already talk of it, what 2 years after the assault weapons ban? Sniper caliber weapons are next....anything centerfire I suspect. Heavy taxation on ammo for those left.....price it beyond your average consumers ability to procure it, limit the number of rounds one can have on hand.

We must mobilize and win the "soft war" as foreign dude suggests. Insisting it cannot happen, or that you will go down in a blaze of glory if it does really is not a mature way to address the problem.

We have had a two year window since the sunset of the AWB......the one that till 94 could never happen.......we now have perhaps another two year window to prevent the Gov. from burning your Bill of Rights. Keep insisting how tough you are and how everyone else is a chicken little.....keep doing that till you are left with a starter pistol and a bread knife to defend the rest of your rights and your useless life...... I think I will join GOA today.

Thanks, Foreign Dude......Great post !

[Sean Dempsey]

This is not the 18th century, this is the 21st century. In 1776, you had a chance to win.

You REALLY think the "people" could fight and WIN in a violent war against the United States of America? Oh please. If you turn your guns against the police, the military, hell even the COAST GUARD, YOU ... WILL ... LOSE.


I'm not saying I like what is happening. I am PRO-GUN, remember? But the **only** effective measure ANY of us will ever take will be political. Make a donation, write your congressman.

But please, let's get real. This isn't the 18th century. Wars aren't won with guns. Resistances aren't successful because of guns. Call me when you have a fleet of privately owned F-22's and a billion dollar armament budget.

We are not John Browns Army.

[coyote_jr]

oh boy can't wait for the Iraq insurgent references to start flying!!!!!!

[Zundfolge]

There is no particular reason to worry. They now have the rope they can hang themselves with:

1) Any problems with Iraq (and there will be) that comes from their "change of direction" such as pulling out troops, sending in more troops, dividing the country up, etc will now squarely be put on their heads.
Nope ... the media will spin it as Bush's fault ... the legacy of "Bush's bad Iraq policy"

2) Any terrorist event on US soil will now be on their heads especially if they demand the release of Guantanamo's "innocent" detainees, block wire-tapping, won't authorize aggressive interrogation, etc.
Nope ... the media will spin it as Bush's fault ... the legacy of "Bush's bad WOT policy"

3) When the economy goes in the toilet due to their plans to raise the minimum wage while allowing illegal aliens to toil for far, far less while enjoy ing government services, they will be squarely to blame for the mass unemployment of low income and unskilled laborers.
Nope ... the media will spin it as Bush's fault ... the legacy of Bush's evil "tax cuts for the rich"

Two years ought to be just long enough for them to hang themselves. All President Bush needs to do is to let them go ahead with some of their plans and conservative domination of government will ultimately be solidified. Sometimes you need to take a step backward to take steps forward.
That all assumes that the people will see the truth. The MSM will distort every negative to be Bush's fault. Two years is not long enough for any deep effect to the DNC's policies so it won't be enough time for them to hang themselves.

Maybe in 2012 when the Democrat president is running for re-election ... maybe.

[Whirlwind06]

You REALLY think the "people" could fight and WIN in a violent war against the United States of America? Oh please. If you turn your guns against the police, the military, hell even the COAST GUARD, YOU ... WILL ... LOSE.


Ok so what is the 2A for then? Duck hunting?
I guess the North Vietnamese Army, Afghani's and the insurgents in Iraq, didn't get that memo. I don't agree with the politics or reasons that most of these groups fought / are fighting for. Just making the point that a determined group of people with small arms can stand up to a lot of fire power.

[Sean Dempsey]

I guess the North Vietnamese Army, Afghani's and the insurgents in Iraq, didn't get that memo.

Are you comparing the people of those countries to the people of the USA?

This thread is hilarious, I forward it to my liberal friends and we just laugh. All they would have to do is give us all free satellite TV and a TiVo, and the resistance would be quelled.

the USA is one of the single most powerful governments and military in the entire world, and the people of the USA are some of the most lazy, obese, complacent people in the whole world.

Wake up. Americans will not fight to protect their FREEDOM. They will only do what it takes to protect their COMFORT and LUXURY. If I was in north vietnam, or afghanistan, yeah I'd probably have "fought back". Here? It will never happen.

Join the chairforce!

[coyote_jr]

Haha this thread is awesome

[joab]

If I was in north vietnam...yeah I'd probably have "fought back"That particular piece of historical ignorance makes a debate with you on this topic pointless.

[Sean Dempsey]

I am glad you agree this topic is pointless.

[arthurcw]

sadly Zundfolge,

I agree with your time line. I don't see any hope of a conservative resurgence (that is not beholden to a liberal leadership as the new conservatives in the Democrat party will be for some time) until into the next decade. I fear 6 or possibly even 8 years of total liberal control of the government.

I have very little faith that the 2A can withstand that much punishment. Best we can hope for is that they only get as far as a total registration of all guns. The worst case? I don't even want to think about the worst case. There will most likely be no EBR's around and I don't even want to think of what will be considered an "assault weapon". I know many don’t agree but that’s how I see it.

I think it's safe to say that, in the end, the 2A will be pretty hollow after all this is said and done.

If you believe in a "Higher Power" start praying for that miracle. But I'm pretty much resigned to the fact that by the middle of next decade we will be looking at a very different landscape for the gun culture.

And yes... I've read all the wishful thinking about how these new Democrats are really conservatives and there are so many more pro-gun Democrats now in the House. It doesn't matter for the next 4 to 6 years when ALL the money is coming from the liberal side of the party.

I would REALLY love to believe there will be a resurgence of Conservatism in the next 2 years in the Republican Party and we would put forth a REAL conservative... but I don't see it happening. McPain + a liberal Congress = more gun control. Gooliani + a liberal Congress = Much More gun control. Hillary + a liberal Congress = OY! In short, I don't see a true conservative in either party stepping up to protect the 2A any time soon.

I’m not saying not to keep fighting. But I just don’t see that there is anyone to put our trust in for the foreseeable future.

Enjoy the EBR’s while you have 'em. I know I will.

[joab]

I am glad you agree this topic is pointlessNever said that, but nice twist attempt (another credibility killer)

[coyote_jr]

Now is that anyway to take the Highroad?

[emitt1]

Well, Mr. Dempsey, I suppose we should all just roll over and die. How many now reading this thread served in the Armed Forces? Remember the lifetime oath you took? Yes, Sean, I will fight. If we allow the socialist to take away our rights, to spit on the Constitution, to "allow" us certain "freedoms" - then we are as sorry as they are. Fly the Gadsden, don't roll over.

[coyote_jr]

There's really no choice but to roll over emitt considering the Coast Guard in there little boats and orange vests would motor on in to the heartland and annihilate the lot of us.

[emitt1]

Yeah, I suppose you're right. Twenty years from now when we reflect back on those days of burning powder out at the range, we'll sigh, and think,
what if..

[Stauffenberg]

Dammit... just once, could someone call for unity without a bunch of folks throwing around a lot of petulant defeatism?

Yes, we lost. No, the game isn't over.

Sir Winston was right - If you're going through hell, keep going.

[emitt1]

Stauffenberg - I believe thats what I was saying, yes we do indeed need to unite......I wasn't joking, fly a Gadsden (don't tread on me). Show them we are united.

[Sean Dempsey]

/shrug

What is all this they'll come after "our" rights, and "we" lost congress. Not everyone here is in the "we". I am glad the democrats won. I'm a liberal with a gun. That rhymes.

[Stauffenberg]

Emitt, my comment wasn't directed at you.

I do fly a Gadsden. :)

[Creeping Incrementalism]

I am glad the democrats won. I'm a liberal with a gun. That rhymes.

Sean, can you save your asinine, gloating, and mocking attitude for DU?

WOLVERINES!!!!!!

The person who started this thread didn't say anything about armed resistance, but rather a political fight.

But please, let's get real. This isn't the 18th century. Wars aren't won with guns. Resistances aren't successful because of guns. Call me when you have a fleet of privately owned F-22's and a billion dollar armament budget.

Incorrect, East Timor defeated Indonesia's army almost wholely with firearms (few heavy weapons were used from what I understand). There are more insurgencies that have won in the past with more heavy weapons. But that's just academic. Moving on more hypothetically,

Wake up. Americans will not fight to protect their FREEDOM. They will only do what it takes to protect their COMFORT and LUXURY.

Yes, most people won't risk their lives, but that's the way it always worked in any insurgency. And when you consider that two guys in DC were on the verge of making the government cave before they were caught, you can see how few people are needed to cause serious problems for the U.S. government.


Sean Dempsey is right.

Look at the way they emasculated gun owners in Calofornia. I know they didn't ban all guns there. But the way certain segments have been treated is horrible ! Google the treatment of 50 cal owners out there......they have been raided, imprisoned, forced to defend themselves in court. Not one has fired a shot, gunowners are NOT leaving California in droves.....they are adjusting to the new rules sent down by papa sugar

Some did leave, but the point is, there was an easy outlet--most any of the other 49 states, for the really angry people. In the case of a federal ban, backs will be to the wall.

[Malone LaVeigh]

Back to the OP, I let my NRA membership lapse last year because of their partisanship. I will rejoin at the next gun show, and hope they learned their lesson. GOA is not a group I could support.

[Deanimator]

Wars aren't won with guns.
Maybe that's the problem in Iraq.

Maybe we should be using featherdusters...

[mkh100]

I'll concede that as a good point creeping "Some did leave, but the point is, there was an easy outlet--most any of the other 49 states, for the really angry people. In the case of a federal ban, backs will be to the wall."

I like to hope you are right. The original point was that we should do all we can to win the "soft war" NOW, so we dont have to fight a real one...EVER. I am a student of history, look around the world and tell me where war does not and has not ever existed. There will be a shooting war in America, will we see it, our kids, our grandkids? Our duty is to protect the heritage, preserve the rights. My point was that if your plan to preserving your rights consists solely of "from my cold dead hands" then you are simply planning to fail.

[Robert Hairless]

lemon328i:

There is no particular reason to worry. They now have the rope they can hang themselves with ...

Which reminds me of Baghdad Bob, Saddam Hussain's information minister in 2003, who used to make remarkably similar claims such as:

The Americans are not there. They're not in Baghdad. There are no troops there. Never. They're not at all."

They can penetrate our borders but they cannot reach Baghdad. They will try to pull our army and troops out but we are well aware of their plans and they will fail.

The Americans are not there. They're not in Baghdad. There are no troops there. Never. They're not at all.

The cost of property along the banks of the Nile River has gone sky high, which must be why many people choose to live in denial. :)


The Guy:

... maybe this "defeat" is what we needed to give us a good scare and a swift boot to the posterior to get going. I hope it works, because if it doesn't, I fear this Great Experiment will fall apart and to the wayside.

Read the messages posted here and in other gun related forums both before and after the election. Many of the same people are saying just about the same things. Almost none has learned anything at all.

So many gun owners seem to have inordinate self-pride and self-concern, exaggerate the importance of their own experiences and feelings, believe in perfection, have little empathy for others, and claim to be altruistic but aren't. When the NRA begs for essential contributions, such people parade their contempuous self-justifications for refusing to support it. When the NRA asks them to support candidates or actions for their ultimate benefit, those people refuse and explain that they know more and better than the professionals.

They will not accept blame or criticism and seem incapable of learning from their mistakes. Such people continue to parrot irrational claims that the Republican Party was anti-gun and that George W. Bush wanted the assault weapons ban. They're actually joyful that the Democrats are in power because that shows the Republicans they didn't do right by gun owners.

They vote to send messages instead of voting in the best interests of gun owners generally and themselves in particular. And when they get slammed in the head by the awful consequences of what they've helped do to themselves, they retreat into denial or make grandiose statements such as "I'll take aim at their blue helmets!" and "Molon Labe!"

They insist upon making unrealistic demands and refuse to compromise, even though a strategy of "all or nothing" will always mean that they'll get nothing: they can't conceive of their effect on other people, who disagree with them but who also have rights and needs that must be accommodated cheerfully. And such people continue those behaviors even now, when it should be impossible to see that they are self-destructive.

These are the troops without whose concerted efforts there is no hope, but narcissistic personality disorder is rampant. If both the NRA and the Brady Campaign were on the stock market, investors could become wealthy by basing decisions to sell or buy on the messages here and in other gun-related forums.

I don't know if there are sufficient numbers of rational gun owners to overcome the disastrous effects of such people and start making friends instead of generating enemies. I most sincerely hope so.

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Either the thread stays civil or it gets locked and any repeat offenders will be shown the door.

[mbt2001]

I agree with Bart.

Join pro RKBA groups and write elected officials.

Then the ball is in their court.

[meef]

Speaking of elections and organizing, etc.....

Here's a dismal scenario, likely it's been mentioned here before but I don't have time to read everything.....

The concerned, caring, feeling and thoughtful new Democratic Congress passes amnesty for the currently illegal aliens residing here.

Bingo! Instant, beholden new voting block of what...? Five, ten million grateful members.

I'll see your NRA voters and raise you a few million. Try to match that, gunnies.

Conservative politics becomes an instant thing of the past..... :mad:

:: Not that it has been manifested much recently anyway. ::