[Sir Galahad]

So, finally, my employer blurts out and asks me in a disgusted tone of voice, "Why are you so into guns?!" "Uh, because I like them.", I answer. So he gets right to the heart of the matter on what's been eating him. "Well! I see that NRA sticker on your Jeep and they're just a bunch of extremists and wackos! They're against common sense gun laws!" "Well, show me where 'common sense gun laws' appears in the 2nd Amendment." "Well! The Constitution has nothing to do with safety and dangerous stuff like people shooting guns!" (What is it about the Constitution that gets under these peoples' skins? Geez, the guy acted like I just crapped on his organic tofu and veggie hot pocket when I said "Constitution".:rolleyes: ) Anyway, he blathers on and on until I finally said, look, freedom is not free and liberty is not painless. You think an armed society is dangerous? Try an unarmed one. You think they shoved six millions armed Jews into gas chambers?

Anyway, I've already written the letter protesting being put on trial for my beliefs by my employer. I'm tired of it. This isn't the first time he's whined about this, except last time, he whined to a co-worker about the NRA decal. Before that, he tried cornering me about the fact I am not anti-war (he asked.) Seems to me employers need to mind their own business in the workplace when it comes to politics, religon, and personal matters. And, yes, he has asked me about religion, too. Probably should start thinking about another job, but knowing how much it upsets him to have a vehicle with an NRA sticker in the parking lot is worth staying.

[Thumper]

Galahad,

Tell us when you finally quit and then post his email addy. :evil:

[Sir Galahad]

Even better, I'll tell the name of the company so no one unknowingly buys a product from an anti.:evil:

[CZ-75]

I would make clear in no uncertain terms that this constitutes harassment.

It may be one thing to get into debates w/ cow-orkers, but it is another thing when it is unsolicited and coming from your boss. Get a copy of your company policy on harrassment.

"Harrassment" is a magic word that gets attention.

[Sir Galahad]

That's what my letter is going to say. A copy for his desk, a copy for my records, and a copy to Human Resources. Funny how some groups of people are considered "fair targets" for harrassment in the workplace, isn't it?

[WonderNine]

Common sense constitutes not grilling your employees about their political/religious beliefs...

[twoblink]

Ask him..

If you were a thief, and you wanted to steal a car, and his car was parked next to yours... and while yours is a jeep, and so probably easier to steal..

If he were a thief that wanted to live, would he steal the car with the NRA sticker on it, or the one without?? If the thief was caught in the act, which car owner would more likely kill him DEAD..?

Yeah, now who's got the common sense??

Tell him, if someone broke into his house, what's he going to do to protect himself? Tell the perp how he doesn't believe in guns??

[cuchulainn]

Common sense constitutes not grilling your employees about their political/religious beliefs... ... not to mention simple civility.

[Oleg Volk]

You can always explain that the NRA sticker refers to the 1878 safety training organization. NRA-ILA is an entirely different entity. And offer to take him to the range so that he'd see how much FUN that hobby is, kind like faster-paced and louder golf.

Keep the letter as a backup but try the hyper-friendly approach.

[general]

I can sympathize - BUT..
Right now my immediate supervisor is coveting my Molon Labe hat.... He's the one who turned me on to The High Road!
Yeah - It's GREAT!
Stay positive - with the posts I've read of yours it would be easy for you to mess with him... Not fair to have a mental duel with the unarmed.

[HerbG]

Hopefully you are keeping detailed notes on all your encounters with your boss - they will be invaluable if you pursue a legal solution to this problem. I'd also get supporting statements from other employees who witnessed or overheard your conversations. There is a good possibility he also tries to intimidate other employees with his unsolicited opinions on how they should be running their lives. Jerks like him usually want to "save people from themselves" and aren't smart enough to know when to shut up. Nail him!

[Leatherneck]

Is that a lawsuit I smell? :scrutiny:
TC
TFL Survivor

[Labinnac]

Make sure to tell him you're going to use most of the money you won from him to buy lots and lots of guns...

[hops]

Tread lightly Sir Galahad.

If you feel that your boss is discriminating against your because of your beliefs in firearm ownership and so on, by giving you an unfair perfromance review or impeeding your carreer at your place of employment, or giving you all the crap work assignements, you have a soild harrassment case.

if he just gives your crap on your views and things are ok otherwise, I'd let sleeping dogs lie.

I've been there, when I was much younger, and I've seen how companies cover their tracks and then work on you. I had low friends in high places, which saved my butt (a solid reputation at work helped too).

My motto - 'If I can't resolve it with my boss, I'll see my lawyer.' Most HR depts are crap. My ex-catbert told me the inside view of HR and it was worse then I realized and experienced.

ps: I get harrassed a bit too, but my bosses still give me stellar performance reviews, but then they're not flamming liberals either. The other flamming libs at work, still come to me first to get their problems taken care of. One did complain about my t-shirt once, but my boss (IT director) put that person in their proper place.

[Waitone]

I would suggest finding a labor lawyer to open a folder on you. Then copy the lawyer on your memo.

Document you contact with your supervisor extensively.

Pattern of harassment is a great phrase to use in the memo.

You are not the only one he's bothering.

Rest assured he is stuffing your file.

Play it by the numbers and you'll be ok. Find an attorney to tell you what the numbers are.

Someone will come along and say, "Hey, you don't like it? Leave." Ignore them.

I had to go eyeball to eyeball with a very large company over medical payment for my wife's cancer. Companies don't like employees who stand up for themselves.

[CZ-75]

As others are intimating, but I'll say openly, odds are that you may be hung out to dry if you don't play your hand right, even with cause. Winning a suit takes years and you'll be labeled a "troublemaker" and find finding new employment difficult until you go to trial, appeal, and pay the attorney's contingency.

Lawyering up is good, but how about just try to resolve it w/o going straight to a lawsuit? Not that I got that impression, but some folks are already talking about lawyers in this thread, whereas you just want to leave that to their imaginations. Any contact w/ a lawyer should be sub rosa for now and your correspondence to one should be "blind carbon copied" so that you don't automatically put your boss and HR folks on the defensive.

[pytron]

I like the "hyper-friendly" approach. It doesn't sound like he's a die-hard extremist, so maybe there is a chance to make him see the light.

On the other hand, keeping good records is not a bad thing. But, be prepared to lose your job if you begin to claim harrassment. Yes, you may not be officially fired, but how friendly do you think the workplace is going to be once you start claiming harrassment (even if you have an excellent case). Just food for thought.

-Pytron

[hvengel]

At one point I had a supervisor who harassed his employees. Not really sexual harassment as such as we normally think of it. But he did tend to do it more too female employees. I think more because he thought he could get away with it. He had been doing this for decades. Some of us had the balls to just face him down the first time he tried it and that put it to bed. But many didn't and he hounded them from there on out.

Two of the woman who reported to him finally had enough. What they did was to start taking detailed notes on every incident. So as soon as they could after something happened they would record things like; When it happened, who was there, where it happened and what was said. Every detail they could think of was written down. They did this for almost a year and recorded over 100 incidents.

At that point they went to HR and the S*** hit the fan big time. Others, myself included, started getting calls from HR asking questions about the incidents. Where you there? Did this get said? And so on. HR had so much to go on that they did this for weeks and called dozens of co-workers.

In the end HR asked the woman what do you want to happen to your (at that point) ex-boss. They asked that he not ever be allowed to be a supervisor again and that is what happened. I am sure that if they had said fire him that he would have lost his job.

My point is that keeping detailed records will only benefit you. The longer the period you record and the more detail the better.

[mercedesrules]

honest! But what about free speech? Doesn't an employer have free speech in his own friggin' building? And, isn't "harassment" a Clintonesque concept? Do we he-men have a right not to be harassed? Whined to? Not to hear unpleasant things? Ha ha ha!

Anyone who thinks that harassment is a valid complaint must be for stringing up anyone that jokes, isn't PC, stares, oogles, or commits any number of free speech faux pas.

Discrimination, political correctness and harassment are Bill and Hillary stuff. Phooey! Have some of you quietly accepted that government should have the right to dictate how business owners run their business? How they can speak in their building?

MR

[StLGlocker]

Most corporate polices dealing with harassment issues (of any type) require you to do one thing before escalating: Ask the offender to stop.

It may make him stop and think if you say "Look, obviously we disagree on this issue, but at work isn't the place to discuss it. It prevents either of us from focusing our attention on what we're here to do - our jobs. If you really want to talk about guns and the NRA, let's do it over a beer later."

At best, you can debate it off the clock, and maybe even invite him to go to the range with you some time. He's parroting a viewpoint that he heard somewhere else (might've watched "Bowling for Columbine" recently, or something), and by asking him to elaborate and explain what a "sensible gun law" is, you'll probably find he has no arguments of his own to back his statements up with. Then you rebut it, but in a calm, non-argumentive way. As gun owners, we DO have the facts on our side, after all. You may end up agreeing to disagree, but that's ok, too.

At worst, you'll have tried it with honey instead of vinegar, and you're off to a good start if you do end up involving HR or an attorney later. "I told him it made me uncomfortable, and asked him to stop, and he continued to harass me about my political views at work."

Good luck, whatever happens.

[CZ-75]

honest! But what about free speech? Doesn't an employer have free speech in his own friggin' building? And, isn't "harassment" a Clintonesque concept? Do we he-men have a right not to be harassed? Whined to? Not to hear unpleasant things? Ha ha ha!


Uh, no. This guy isn't the employer, merely a supervisor and it isn't his building. Sorry, but your logic is lacking on this point even if the guy were the owner.

Perhaps he wants to talk about his sexual fantasies revolving around farm animals and children. It's free speech right? If one party isn't interested, asks the other party to stop and can't take appropriate action to stop the unwanted behavior, then it sure sounds like harrassment. Your rights end where mine begin.

[jmbg29]

Doesn't an employer have free speech in his own friggin' building?Not the employer. Not his building. As CZ has pointed out.

I don't have an "employer", but if I did, he would be told to STFU on any issue not pertaining to work. Should he refrain from STFU, he would be invited to step outside.

[Desertdog]

How about, the next time your boss, or anyone else, starts spouting about your gun likes, invite them to go to the range and let them try it for themselves.:D

[Standing Wolf]

Leftists avoid free and open debate like the plague. They'll take pot shots and engage in conversational sniping, but actual debate with intelligent, well informed conservatives?

Not a chance!

I believe I'd document, document, document, and document some more; I'd also disengage from personal conversations with such a supervisor: you're never going to open his alleged "mind," and will likely only encourage him to further hostilities. Creeps deserve to be ignored—and their behavior deserves to be documented.

[Frohickey]

Stay positive - with the posts I've read of yours it would be easy for you to mess with him... Not fair to have a mental duel with the unarmed.
Thats the problem. Since they don't have brains, all they have to debate with are emotions.

[Feanaro]

Unless you have another place that will employ you I suggest you toe the line. Keep documents but don't start anything. This isn't worth being fired over, me thinks.

[Sir Galahad]

There comes a time when a man has to stand up for what's right and refuse to take anyone's BS just because "he's the boss".

First, I write a short letter asking him to stop asking me about politics from now on. I made a few copies of this letter. One went on his desk. Another copy went to the new head of human resources who stands behind me 100%, is a conservative and also a gun owner. He is going to monitor the situation and if it does not stop with my letter asking him to stop, we will proceed from there to the next level.

Being friendly to the employer and asking him to go shooting is out of the question. He HATES guns and is so far left, he makes Jesse Jackson look like a Republican. His whole point was to badger me about owning guns. Now he knows I won't tolerate it. It is documented and I have HR on my side in the matter. If he wants to try and fire me over it, he's only going to screw himself because I have an impeccable work record and everyone knows it.

Mercedes, I don't know where you think your definition of "freedom" fits in, but my employer's "freedom" does not entail holding me as a captive audience to harangue me. But I'll tell you what. If employers have ultimate freedom of speech, then when your wife is being sexually harrassed day in and day out, just tell her it's the guy's "freedom of speech" and I'm sure she'll love you all the more for being such a cosmopolitan. :rolleyes: Find your utopia without laws and I'll show you a Somalia.

There comes a time when a person should not just allow themselves to be held hostage to someone's ranting regardless of who it is. I can always find another job. I'd rather stand in the unemployment line for a couple days than spend years on my knees for a paycheck.

[Strings]

... I get into political arguements with MY boss all the time. Sometimes quite heated arguements, and have even devolved into the "wanna step outside?" stage...




Of course, it's only me and Dad at work, so it's no real big deal... ;)

Good luck, Galahad. Let us know how things turn out!

[Sir Galahad]

Now it's blowing up in his face! Got one co-worker asking me how and where to join the NRA. Got another asking for NRA stickers to put on her car and an NRA mouse pad. Got a few other folks thinking maybe they ought to put NRA stickers on their cars just to piss him off. Wow, instead of embarrassing one guy about the NRA, he might have actually inadvertanty created more NRA members! Ya gotta love it! :neener:

[Thumper]

Attaboy, bro'! :D

[HBK]

Nice job.

[Feanaro]

How ironic. :D

[fallingblock]

:D

Maybe he'll move to New Jersey...he doesn't 'belong' in Arizona:)

[Sir Galahad]

The POS asked for another copy of the letter I put on his desk. He's up to something. If he does fire me, I am going to file a lawsuit. And I'm going straight to the media with the story.

[Idaho]

He asked for another copy? What, he doesn't have access to a photocopier?

In most states, you would have trouble proving "harassment" based on what you have told us. In most situations, you would have to prove that you had adverse employment action taken against you because of your being a member of a protected category (race, sex, religion, disability, national origin, age, in some states sexual orientation).

First, you would have to find a category to claim (perhaps AZ prohibits discrimination based on political beliefs?)

Second, you would have to prove that any adverse employment action was taken *because* of your position. This is often very hard to prove.

Some states have statutes generally prohibiting a "hostile work environment", but often those are also based on membership in some protected group.

My advice would be to consult quietly with an attorney BEFORE you burn any bridges or threaten to sue, to find out if you do indeed have a case.

[Idaho]

Oh, and by the way, if it does come to a lawsuit, you will likely have to produce this thread. It is common to ask during discovery if you have had any communication with anyone about the alleged incidents, and if so, who, and where. They will followup with a request to produce any "documents" showing these communications. This bulletin board would count.

I don't know if you have said anything you wouldn't want shared, but I would advise not to write anything that you wouldn't want read aloud in court.

(This does not constitute legal advice, your mileage may vary, et cetera.)