Does anybody have a link to a list of New Jersey approved handguns? I have been searching this site & google for the last hour with no results.
Here's the deal my wife's aunt is from NewJersey and complained that all of the .45's that she has shot have had too large of grip. I then hand her my Kimber Compact :evil: at this point holy light shines & choir of John Moses sings and she gets a mile wide grin on her face and a "I've never handled one of those before" response. So I am looking for the NewJersey DOJ approved handgun list if one exists so I can recommend a few models for her to look at when she gets home.
The other interesting response was to my carry loads (Cor-bon 200gr hollow points & 230gr Horanady XTP's) "What kind of bullets are those? are those hollow points? and only LEO's are alowed to have those in NewJersey. My conclusion is that NewJersey is a very screwed up state inspite of some very fine people.
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November 10, 2006, 10:11 AM
I 'm not a lawyer and I don't play one on TV but I spent over 31 years as a LEO most of it in NJ and most of it as a federal LEO but here's what I can tell you.New Jersey doesn't have an approved list. As it stands today any handgun can be sold in NJ but you are limited to a maximum 15 round magazine. Hollow points are not illegal to possess in NJ they are illegal to use or have in possession during commission of a crime. This is an add on charge to whatever other crime was commited. Good law to another charge for an armed robber. However it seems to me that if you have an accidental discharge using hollowpoints, you damage someone's property, and wind up getting charged with some kind of criminal negligence the prosecutor could add this hollow point charge. On the other hand if you shoot an armed intruder in your home and it's a good shoot it would seem to me that use of hollow points here would be okay.
Retired LEOs are not allowed to carry hollow points in NJ. Neither can anyone with a carry permit in NJ.
All this being said I don't carry hollow points or have any gun in my house loaded with hollow points.
NJ also has a law saying that when the first "smart gun" (any handgun that restricts firing to someone with a special ring or bracelet) goes on the market that's the only handgun that can be sold 3 years after the smart gun hits the market.
November 10, 2006, 10:32 AM
Griz pretty much hit it. NJ has some messed up laws concerning firearm usage. You can get some information and links to specific information from the NJ State website: http://www.state.nj.us/njsp/about/fire_ag2.html
November 10, 2006, 10:45 AM
I believe Grizz22 gave the correct answer to your question. I left NJ this year finally after living there most of my life, I'm not missing it at all.:D
It would be great if everyone left the state and there was no revenue there to support the corrupt mob connected politicians. Sorry for my rant, I didn't like being uprooted after 28 years.:barf:
November 10, 2006, 11:16 AM
But the jonior hittlers have decreed that we can only have 15 round mags.
November 10, 2006, 07:33 PM
When I couldn't find a list or refference to a list I began to doubt its existance. But I asumed that NJ was so much like Cali that there had to be a nanny approved list.
I just didn't want to recommend a nice 1911 and give her a rough price only to find out that in NJ cicked & locked or SA pistols were verboten.
November 10, 2006, 10:25 PM
Good info, Grizz22. NJ also is pretty strict with how you secure your guns in your home. Heavy duty liability issues. I recently got back into firearms and found the process of getting a permit to purchase a handgun very daunting. First, you have to go to your local police, show your license and then they diappear into the back - probably to run a quick check. Then you fill out the application (with two personal references that they do call), get fingerprinted and wait 4 to 6 weeks for the permits. Unfortunately, the bad guys can still run over to PA and get one in an hour or less.
November 10, 2006, 10:53 PM
Where in PA can you get a gun without documentation? Who are the bad guys you speak of? :fire:
November 10, 2006, 10:55 PM
NJ does have a list for assault rifles. However they also add "any weapon that's substantially the same". Factors determining are all cosmetic; folding stock, pistol grip, ability to take mags over 15 rds, flash supressor, and bayonet stud. You are allowed any 2 things, 3 makes it illegal in NJ. You can buy post ban ARs and they are legal but add the flash surpressor and/or bayonet stud and it's illegal. Mini 14s are legal but a GB with flash supressor and bayonet stud is not.
Does anyone have stats on how many people were bayoneted every year?
November 10, 2006, 11:35 PM
Unfortunately, the bad guys can still run over to PA and get one in an hour or less.
geez, who wrote this? NJ's governer?...mayor bloomberg? i'm sure the bad guys can just as easily go into camden or trenton or newark and get guns pretty quickly. they're not getting them legally, and i think it's pretty clear that a criminal can illegally pick up guns in any urban center.
November 10, 2006, 11:36 PM
To buy a handgun in NJ:
- must be 21
- must have firearms license
- must have handgun license
- must have permit to purchase handgun and buy a handgun within 90 days or get a new permit to purhcase
- state registration of all handguns and handgun purchases
Hollow points - you can have them but you can't carry them. It doesn't matter as it is impossible to get a CCW permit here unless you are a cop, a government official, or a security officer for an armored vehicle. Open carry is not allowed either unless you have a CCW permit.
November 11, 2006, 01:42 AM
You notice how the member with only a number and 6 posts stated his BS, didn't answer my questions and has disappeared. Anti-gun trolls do that all the time. He couldn't think up a good name this time, so just made up or used a familiar number for lack of imagination. I hate AHs that go phishing for a fight, when they have no legitimate basis in what they say. For instance all the AHs who use the term assault rifle incorrectly. ;)
November 11, 2006, 10:26 AM
Sorry Chief, I went to bed early. Regarding my comment about PA...
Camden, NJ was #1 in murder rate last year. Much of the cause is aimed at "straw buyers" in PA that buy handguns and sell them across the bridge in NJ to the gang bangers. You need a driver's license in PA, but nothing else that I know of. No record is kept in PA so a person can buy several in the morning and make a profit in the afternoon. Who I am and what I think matters not. The number of my posts has no relation to anything. Be thankful that you live where this concept appears confusing to you.
My screen name refers to being a K9 handler from 1967 to 1971.
November 11, 2006, 04:48 PM
I am originally from the Bronx, NY. I lived in Hudson County NJ, and Morris County NJ for over 28 years. To purchase a HG in PA you need 2 pieces of ID that show your current address. The paperwork you fill out has your SS# and the serial # of the weapon purchased. The original owner of a firearm used and confiscated in the commission of a crime can be traced back to the original owner. That being the case a straw buyer/seller will have a short career. I don't think that much of the cause is straw purchases, as the media would have you believe. Most guns are stolen from their orginal owners and some are even illegally smuggled into the country. I take great precautions to see that mine don't wind up in the wrong hands.
I read the post on how you arrived at the handle that you are using. I apologize for the undue disrespect and hope that you can forgive me that indiscretion. I see alot of posts that are either sly remarks made by anti-gun people or just innocent ignorance. I fervently am pro-gun and I should not get so upset, but I can't help it. Watching freedom erode is a b_ _ _ h.
Being from NJ, I saw much of my freedom evaporate. The politicians made criminals out of the law abiding by changing the law, and expect the purchaser of expensive equipment to turn it in just because, with no compensation:barf: I'm glad I left, but I am also angry that I had to. People here say that it is a good thing to be from NJ. That is another way of saying that it is good that you left NJ.:cool:
Oh and by the way, I read another of your posts, what did you mean by you would rather have a dog over a gun for protection? That could be misconstrued into saying that we should all give up our guns, and get dogs instead. You see what I mean, I can't help it, language is too powerful a weapon. Anything you say can and will be used against you.
November 11, 2006, 05:19 PM
Chief, you are a gentleman and no offense is taken. I really do appreciate your post. I apologize for not being more clear about what I was saying. My point was that no matter how many idiotic laws they pass to hassle us good people, the bad will always find ways of getting what they want.
As old as I am, I still have more to learn. I didn't handle or fire a weapon since my discharge from the service in 71. Frankly, it never was something I gave much more thought to. Watching the coverage of Katrina changed that. I've purchased a 9mm, .357 and a Remington 870 in the past two months. I've joined a gun club and met many good people and hear varying viewpoints. I continue to learn and enjoy. In fact, I just got back from an excellent day at the range.
Good luck in VA. I was stationed there for a bit and it's a beautiful state. By the way, I came to NJ by way of Staten Island. How much longer I'll be here is questionable too!
AND ...dogs shouldn't replace guns, but they are as close to night vision glasses as you will ever get.
Talk to you soon.
November 11, 2006, 06:40 PM
K96771, I read the same thing about Camden blaming the gun laws in PA for their high murder rate. That doesn't explain why Philadelphia's murder rate is much lower than Camden's.
November 11, 2006, 08:23 PM
You don't have to tell me of the fine attributes of dogs, I have 8 of them currently and have had around that number for the past 17 years.:)
November 11, 2006, 08:47 PM
Grizz, not much makes sense about the stats that get thrown around (mine included!)
Good to see a few Jerseyans around. Misery loves company. Maybe we should all move in with Chief:D
November 11, 2006, 08:53 PM
No record is kept in PA so a person can buy several in the morning and make a profit in the afternoon.
Not true for handguns.
Handguns must be sold via FFL, or @ the Sheriff's office, and NICS will be run.
The state police also keeps a list, there's a form for that. Somehow, the state supreme court declared that this list wasn't a registry on technical grounds, despite statutes that expressly forbid such.
Furthermore, any time you buy 2 or more handguns in a week, the ATFE flags that as a "suspicious purchase", which exempts them from the requirement of purging the record after 24 hrs.
Like someone said, straw buyers would have a very short career.
November 11, 2006, 10:46 PM
Don't you believe that a record is purged, not even for a mnute. A record is a record period. Laws are meant to be twisted and broken as the need be, by the law makers and enforcers. I have had finger prints taken for a background check to obtain endorsements on my CDL. These are supposed to be purged also, but you won't get me to believe that. Just my opinion and that of relative law enforcement officers.
November 12, 2006, 11:56 AM
To purchase a HG in PA you need 2 pieces of ID that show your current address.
Wrong. All you need is one form of ID, generally your driver's license. I have never had to provide more than that, in buying many handguns from several different FFLs located in PA.
November 14, 2006, 09:20 PM
There is no approval list other than the New Jersey Criminal Statute which specifies what guns can be sold and purchased. I have to say in my town in NJ which is in Burlington County I was able to get my permits very quickly without a hassle. Its in the upstate areas inhabited by the intellectual elites of New Jersey that there is much delay. anybody who has a delay that is inordinate just
call the New Jersey Attorney General and tell him. that should do it.
November 15, 2006, 12:16 AM
November 15, 2006, 10:43 PM
I grew up in NJ and it was a good gun state until about 1966 or so. Austin Behlert was doing some nice pistols back then and my dad and I were regular NRA competitors at Ft. Monmouth range as well as Old Bridge and other neat old pistol ranges.:) I killed many a rat in the late 50's early 60's at the "dumps" in Monmouth and Ocean counties.:D
When I finished my first enlistment and was off for a couple mounths in 1969 the place had changed so bad I never went back to live there! I instead changed my home to California (MONTEREY cOUNTY) which was like the wild west then, and totally cool on guns:rolleyes: Now it is still better here, but not MUCH:fire: and I go to the promised land of AZ often and have another place in Oregon, that is still decent in some counties.:scrutiny:
November 15, 2006, 11:22 PM
Let's just say that I know of that which I speak; my source is a reliable man in a position to know.
Yes, nonsuspicious NICS records, under _normal_ circumstances, *actually*are*purged*.
Of course, you can't prove, even in principle, that someone hasn't squirrelled away a stray day's work here and there, or that there isn't some secret backup tape machine humming away, or even that some half arsed IT process results in stray data living past it's burn date.
I'm also not surprised to see that they've got a hair trigger on what they deem to be a 'suspicious' transaction, but nonetheless, there are actually public servants, who, you know, do their best to diligently implement the law, whatever it may be, including whatever protections for us there are built into said law.
November 16, 2006, 12:44 AM
Gordon, you'd never recognize the place today. Ft. Monmouth is mostly shut down and Old Bridge is a big housing development. There's some space left in Ocean county, but you'd have to go pretty far south to see areas like they were back in the 60s.
I re-read this and realize that I've become my father!
November 16, 2006, 03:52 AM
Gordon, I met Austin Behlert in the early 70s when he had his shop in Kenilworth. He did make some impressive pieces. His craftsmanship and ideas were way ahead of the times then. I saw he died in October 2005.
This is not really off post as if there is anyone who should be associated with NJ handguns it's Austin Behlert.
November 16, 2006, 05:33 AM
That is just scarey. Maybe it's because they are next to New York, which is even scarier. Guns are illegal there for U.S. citizens, it seems. When did these two renegade states decide the U.S. constitution did not apply to them? Why don't their citizens revolt, and discard illegal laws and politicians? This is our duty, according to the Declaration of Independence. If we don't fight corrupt government, it will surely destroy us, because it is no longer run by the governed, but by greedy, power hungry politicians.
Why does one see, over and over, the theme of New York City dwellers refusing to help law enforcement with eye witness reports? Because they are afraid to stand up, and who can blame them? They can't protect themselves; only the criminals have guns. Go west, ladies and gentlemen. Leave the east to crooks (lawyers and politcians, whom nurish the criminal element). At least one can own a gun in California, if you are not a felon. Back east, you can't own a squirt gun if you are a watermelon.
November 16, 2006, 12:39 PM
Meh, guns aren't illegal, per se. They just make you jump through hell and high water in gasoline drawers while shackled at the ankles to get them.
I grew up throughout the south and ended up in New Jersey for highschool and college. Throughout the years, I realized how corrupt the state was and that the ones with purse strings run the state. It's a Soccer Mom Republic...anything that doesn't fit into the utopian ideal of the Leave It To Beaver days is shunned. So, IMO, they say it's too costly to try and prevent our citizens from arming themselves, but we can make it expensive and inconvienient.
Cmon, we're talking about a state where you can't pump your own gas (by law) and where 80% of the population probably doesn't know how to operate a gas pump.
November 16, 2006, 12:57 PM
Last I knew, it was illegal to buy a pair of drawers on Sunday. I love NJ....in my rear view mirror. Raised in the MeadowLands with most of the family still there.
November 16, 2006, 01:48 PM
And we wonder why we're Jay Leno's favorite state. The sad fact is that it's all true. Don't you all feel so much better now about where you live?!? I think I'll head over to the UHAUL. The Aleutians must be nice this time of year.:D
November 16, 2006, 03:28 PM
East vs. West?
Forgive the newbie speaking out of turn here, but let me add something here.
I live on the border between the aforementioned relatively free commonwealth of VA and the state of Maryland, which only recently stopped pushing for a universal ballistic registry. (Plus DC is next door, but we all know that place is a train wreck...)
Anyone who's been paying attention for the last couple weeks could tell you that VA is singlehandedly responsible for giving the Senate majority - and thus the majority of both houses - to the Democrats. And it was close - razor thin - Jim Webb won by about 8000 votes.
There are still large numbers of people down here who are in full favor of preserving 2nd ammendment rights. NJ's already done - but the fight is still going on here. We're the line in the sand. IMO the best thing NJ gun owners could do is follow ChiefThunderStick's example and move down here - then we could swing the vote back the other way.
As an aside, it's interesting living right on the border... people in VA (fairly gun friendly) tend to be fairly polite, but you go into DC or Maryland and immediately start running into complete jerks.
November 16, 2006, 04:01 PM
In some respects things have gotten slightly (very slightly) over the years in NJ. 30 years ago they let local jurisdictions be very discriminating as to how and to who they issued pistol permits. Let me cite an example.
My brother used to live in a larger city in North Jersey. The biggest crime he ever committed was 45 in a 35 zone. He wanted to buy a pistol. In order to do so you had to:
1. Come at a certain time to the PD to pick up the application.
2. Drop off the application at a certain time.
3. Come back to the PD to be fingerprinted.
4. Your two references you listed had to come to the PD for an interviews.
5. You had to come to be interviewed.
6. You had to list a reason you wanted a handgun.
7. If all was approved you had to come down to the PD to pick up your permit to purchase.
There was 7 trips to the PD (by apointment and scheduled 9-5 normal business hours. This made it almost impossible for most people to take off from work to do this.
At the same time I lived in a rural area. Stopped at the PD, didn't know anyone, not a LEO at the time. I filled out the permit and asked how long it would take expecting 2-3 weeks as a good time. The detective told me "You've already been fingerprinted so the State Police don't need them again. Come back tommorrow but make it late in the afternoon so we'll be sure the Chief signed it."
The reforms made require them to issue within 30-45 days or something like that and they can't make you make a bunch of trips.
On the other hand the NJ AWB is still alive and well prohibiting certain firearms totally on cosmetics. They do make you get a criminal records check every year in order to get a permit to purchase a handgun. They charge you $18 for that. Being a retired LEO I can get a carry permit. I paid for a criminal records check to get the carry permit and still had to pay for another to get a purchase permit. I don't think it has anything to do with being concerned about you being a criminal or not just a way to collect more money to spend. 60% of the tolls paid on highways, bridges, and tunnels are pain in NJ. Yesterday I heard the Governor wanted put tolls on the interstates to collect revenue. To continue I shloud go into a new post but here in NJ the Democrats feel the best way to balance the budget is not stop spending but raise taxes and revenue any way you can.
November 17, 2006, 12:31 AM
Yep, That's NJ alright. Gotta love that Corzine. Before he was elected, he said something along the lines of Let's include clothes as taxables, that way we can keep those New Yorkers out of NJ. New Yorkers used to flock across the river to shop in NJ which was very good for business, which pay their own taxes according to how well they are doing. I used to live in an urban setting there and it was 30 days by law to get a firearms ID card (rifle card). The law was broken to the tune of about a year. My first HG permit, also supposed to be a 30 day max wait, took 3 months. I moved to the NW corridor into the country and I got my handgun permits there in about a week to 2 weeks. You still had to get fingerprinted and 2 reference letters of people that would vouch for you, and they checked the references. What a brave new world I am living in now.
November 17, 2006, 04:54 PM
Lived in NJ for 4 years and worked in a gun shop in Robbinsville for all 4. Pretty much all handguns are legal in nj so long as you mag holds more than 15 rnds. The important thing is make sure whomever will be using the gun has a firearms ID card, and applies for the handgun perchase permit. The laws surrounding hp ammo is as such. It is legal to posses in the home and at the range, you cannot however drive around with it rolling around in your car. Read NJ legal code 2c on the state police website. Any further questions please call Evan Nappen, NJ's top firearms related lawyer. Good luck in NJ!
November 17, 2006, 10:02 PM
"Lived in NJ for 4 years and worked in a gun shop in Robbinsville for all 4. Pretty much all handguns are legal in nj so long as you mag holds more than 15 rnds." Wrong.
I had to go and find a 10 round mag for my Glock 17 when the AWB was in effect, and as someone else pointed out, it is still in effect in NJ.
November 18, 2006, 10:02 AM
State law here in NJ state you can NOT!!! have mags that exceed 15rds, I think HGHHUNTER just mispoke, no reason to have 10 rounders either, even during the ban they were legal here. Sorry for the strong wording but this is serious business here, don't get caught with anything more that a 15 rounder,
or you WILL become a FELON!!!
November 18, 2006, 10:52 AM
Ok, so want round should we use to stop the Jerset Devil.:evil:
November 18, 2006, 09:53 PM
here for hunting it's limited only to varmint, and private land.....So for all intents and purposes were a shotgun only hunting state. That being said, he's
a rather beefy fellow, and frequently on the wing which rules out handguns. I would load up my 870 with #1 buck, for the denser pattern than double O. I would keep my shots to 30 yards.:neener: :neener: :evil:
November 18, 2006, 10:45 PM
What do you mean by no reason to have 10 rounders either?
November 18, 2006, 11:00 PM
Its 15 rounds, not 10. Pistol or Rifle don't matter.
November 19, 2006, 12:01 AM
HGUNHNTR - Just stopped at your old place in Robbinsville the other day, and picked up a 686 there not long ago too. It's still one of the best places in this area. I needed some 00 and #1 for the Jersey Devil that sometimes wonders these parts.
November 19, 2006, 12:24 AM
My official place of residence was NJ during the time I spent in the Corps, and while I lived in a good community, my interest in firearms led me to move, after bumming around the world for a few years. One of the biggest attractions for moving to Florida was the reasonably sane gun laws. Sure, the weather was to my liking and I've always loved the South, but for me it's a relative paradise after all that time up north. Instead of worrying about ludicrous hollowpoint laws, I feed my CCW guns with whatever suits my fancy and shoot close to 500 rounds every week just for giggles.
Many relatives remain up north, and there remains a strong attraction for the area of my youth, but I'd never move back for good. Just a retired old grunt who loves his guns and wouldn't want to lose the freedom of exercising my rights. Having said that, NJ remains part of our union and I respect those who live there, but cannot abide the political climate at all.
November 21, 2006, 04:31 PM
Sorry gang, I did Mis Speak about the 15 round mag. Anything more than 15 rounds is illegal, 15 or less is legal--before or after the ban. HOWEVER with a glock 17 you cannot purchase a 15 round mag and have to opt for the 10 rounder. Sorry for any confusion I may have caused.
Might see you next fall K96771 as I will be forced to return to NJ for a year or so.
November 22, 2006, 11:59 PM
NJ must have been a nice place to live way back before the income tax, the intellectuals and the liberals.
One another note, I think 15 round magazines are illegal in NJ. But seriously, anybody who has a problem getting their permit should contact the NJ Attorney General's Office and tell them about the delay. I got my permits to purchase through the mail from my police department with no hassles. But then again, we are Republicans in my town, few liberals and certainly not many intellectuals.
November 23, 2006, 06:03 AM
not many intellectuals ? Is that an attack on gun owners?:scrutiny:
November 23, 2006, 09:24 AM
Quote One another note, I think 15 round magazines are illegal in NJ.
15 ROUND MAGS ARE NOT ILLEGAL IN NJ!! 16 ROUND+ YES
November 25, 2006, 09:51 PM
15,15,15 LEGAL.... Nothing to think about, know the laws before you post, your spreading incorrect information. In New Jersey, a 15 round mag is LEGAL...
November 25, 2006, 11:19 PM
http://www.state.nj.us/lps/njsp/info/pdf/firearms/njac-title13-ch54.pdf straight from NJ State Police website. It's all there in black and white. No more need be said.
November 26, 2006, 01:37 PM
In case any of you NJ residents are inclined, there's a grass roots type organization whose stated mission is:
To effect positive change to New Jersey's current public policy of discouraging, penalizing, and even criminalizing, legitimate and necessary acts and methods of self defense and to pursue these policy changes through legislative initiatives, grassroots activism and statewide public information campaigns.
They're still pretty small, but have managed so far to organize events where a couple of hundred NJ residents got their non-resident Florida CCWs. Check them out at http://www.njcsd.org.
November 26, 2006, 02:07 PM
Welcome and Thank you DbabsJr. I was from NJ now in VA, due to the repulsion caused by politics and economics. I believe Corzine is insane with power, what a loser. He'll probably go the same route as McGreevy or McGreedy as I used to call him.:evil:
November 26, 2006, 10:23 PM
Check out www.evannappen.com . He wrote a pretty easy to read book on Gun and Knife Law in NJ. I scanned it tonight and while my copy is a few years old, there was not any list of permittted guns, but there was a list of prohibited ones (mostly long guns falling into the AR category). Evan is a good guy and you can call him and he will answer your questions.
November 26, 2006, 11:19 PM
Thanks for the link, DbabsJR. We would be less than civic-minded to not get involved.
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