I just bought a Kel-Tec P11. I'm planning on carrying this gun IWB with a clip-on attachment (CovertCarrier, I think is the name), or in jacket pocket during cooler months. I have to admit, as a new CCW holder, I'm a little concerned about carrying this gun with a bullet chambered.
I've been practicing my "Jack Bauer" style of pulling the gun and chambering a bullet. It actually works pretty well, and adds less than 1/2 second to the presentation, I would guess. There is a danger that I'll "missfire" the chambering under pressure, but that's why I am practicing it, over and over.
I read that Israeli military (or police, I forget which) don't carry semi-auto handguns chambered - that might be for single action guns. But they are trained to chamber the bullet upon drawing the gun.
Should I keep practicing, or get over the fear of inavertent firing?
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November 10, 2006, 11:08 AM
1. PLEASE take appropriate precautions when practicing chambering a round.
2. Do a search on "Israeli Carry" here and elsewhere. Classic gunboard thread.
3. I'm not aware of any defensive shooting school in this country that advocates Israeli carry as a standard mode of carry. There may be something to that.....;)
November 10, 2006, 11:09 AM
Maybe first, you should define for yourself exactly the situation in which you feel the pistol would go off "inadvertantly".
If you fully understand how your pistol is designed to work, how it's safety systems work, and what you have to do to get it to fire (intentionally or not), then you can decide for yourself if the pistol is safe to carry chambered.
Also factor in the holster you will use because "proper" holsters will totally encase the trigger guard which prevents anything catching on the trigger itself during carry.
November 10, 2006, 11:12 AM
My personal philosophy is K.I.S.S. and the simpler the better. I carry only firearms I can draw and shoot...no safety, round chambered and ready. There is no guarantee you'll have two hands free or extra time when a firearm is needed. My advise is to practice till you're comfortable with yourself and your weapon...and get a proper holster. IMHO
November 10, 2006, 03:50 PM
Carry with a chambered round. With the long, heavy trigger pull of the P11 you won't have any problems. It's not really that much different than carrying a wheel gun. BUT get a good holster that retains the gun well AND COVERS THE ENTIRE TRIGGER! Your worried about firing by mistake by carrying with a round in the chamber. What makes you think that you maynot under stress fire a round (by mistake) while chambering a round?
Chamber your ammo while NOT under stress, carry in a good holster, and your only going to have to think about proper weapon draw and the reason that you had to draw.
As stated before, KEEP IT SIMPLE!
November 10, 2006, 04:27 PM
I think all of the other posts are good advice. I defiantly understand your concern, for those of you who aren't aware of the clip that he is talking about, check it out out Kel Tec's website, I would not carry it with the clip with a round chambered. Why? Nothing is covering the trigger. Anything I have ever read says always carry in a holster that covers the trigger guard! Their our many who carry "Mexican Carry" or pocket carry without a holster, not a good idea as you can tell by the first few posts, they indicate a proper holster is necessary. My point is if you are using the clip, don't have a round chambered otherwise keep it chambered Kel Tec has a long hard trigger pull for a reason. I just bought a IWB from highnoonholsters.com for my Mil Pro you can get the same one for your P-11 and it will be around $42 or less including shipping. Money well spent. My .02 cents! Good luck and be safe!
November 10, 2006, 04:41 PM
There is a current thread in the General Handguns forum right now on "Israeli Carry" that has a lot of good info. It requires much more practice to be good enoungh to use quickly under stress. I carried my CCW with an empty chamber for the first year, and in hindsight, I am lucky that I never had to use it b/c it did not practice nearly enough.
There is nothing wrong with carrying with an empty chamber, and it is one extra level of safety if you feel that you need it. However, it IS one more step to get your gun ready, and that can slow you down when you need the gun NOW.
November 10, 2006, 04:46 PM
If the "truth" be told by "closet Cond.#3 pistoleros", there are other pistols besides Kel-Tec being carried w/o one in the chamber.:rolleyes:
November 10, 2006, 05:18 PM
Thanks for the replies. I'll post the "clip" I bought later, it's not the Kel-Tec version. It's for IWB carry without a proper holster.
I fired my gun 50 rounds today, the first time it's been shot. I am now keenly aware of the "P11 trigger pull" issue. After the first few shots, I steadied the gun and squeeeezzzzzeeeeddd the trigger until it felt like it wouldn't move any more. I then had to almost yank the thing from there to get it to fire. It's not the length of the trigger pull with this beast, although that's is formidable in itself, it's the fact that the last little bit is so difficult. With a normal rapid pull of the trigger, not a slow squeeze, the gun fired rather smoothly, and free-hand shots were acceptable, for a first try.
I had one failure to load out of 50 shots. I was using Winchester 124 grain FMJ factory ammo. The failure occurred when I decided to peek at the ejection, because I couldn't tell where the shells were going. It obviously was a limp-wristed shot, nothing else. All the other shots were smooth as silk.
Back to the chambered bullet issue: After firing this gun, I'm not nearly as worried about it firing inadvertently. Hell, now I worried about it firing "advertently." It's actually not a bad system for CCW. No safety to fumble with, just pull it out and yank the trigger.
November 10, 2006, 06:01 PM
Here is the clip I bought for CCW. I thought it looked like a good idea.
I had not seen that particular clip, but now that I have, my first thought was: "That must hurt your hand when shooting." Nor would I trust something that slight to hold a firearm on just a trouser waist band. Maybe if I were an undercover or in a dangerous covert situation, but for normal carry you can't beat a good holster for a gun that large. IMHO
November 10, 2006, 10:53 PM
you mentioned that you train to mimick the techniques of a fictional televison character...jack bauer
please tell me you are kidding... uh-oh
November 10, 2006, 11:52 PM
adds less than 1/2 second to the presentation
In this business, a half-second is a lifetime. Anything that delays you getting an accurate shot off could kill you!
Should I keep practicing, or get over the fear of inavertent firing?
The latter. Especially with the DAO Kel-Tec, your fear of an AD is irrational.