Color Guard M16's


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Sisco
November 11, 2006, 06:25 PM
I attended a military honors funeral last week as a member of the Patriot Guard.
I've done a few of these before but this was the first time I was close to the color guard when the did the 21 gun salute.
I couldn't help but notice that they manually ejected the empty and reloaded the next round before each shot. Do the blanks not have enough recoil to work the action or is it a ceremonial type thing?

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dispatch55126
November 11, 2006, 06:27 PM
Its for cadence and so the brass doesn't hit the person next to them when they fire.

Sisco
November 11, 2006, 06:32 PM
So is the weapon modified so it doesn't eject and load itself?

dispatch55126
November 11, 2006, 06:33 PM
More than likely they just remove the portion of the gas tube from the bolt that operates the auto-load.

ScottsGT
November 11, 2006, 06:37 PM
If your shooting blanks in an M-16 without the blank firing adaptor, it won't cycle. Think about it. There is no bullet to trap the gas pressure to activate the bolt. All the gas excapes the muzzle with no resistance. You then have to manually extract the shell.

Jeff White
November 11, 2006, 06:41 PM
ScottGT is correct. You need a blank firing adapter for any semi-auto to cycle while firing blanks.

Jeff

therealsteamer
November 11, 2006, 06:42 PM
IIRC the M16/AR15 series WILL NOT cycle with out a Blank Firing Adaptor...

Sisco
November 11, 2006, 06:54 PM
Last time I was that close was at my Dad's funeral and they were using Garands with blank adapters, they did cycle in auto.

Wes Janson
November 11, 2006, 08:39 PM
Dunno about 30.06, but I was firing some blanks through my AR last week, and I can say from very recent first-hand experience that they don't do much of anything. .22 LR-like recoil, and way too little pressure to cycle the action.

Jeff White
November 12, 2006, 04:35 AM
The M1s that the local American Legion Post has all have a restrictor device at the end of the barrel. It's not a regular blank adapter it appears the barrels have been permanently modified to just shoot blanks. They came to the Legion that way from DOD.

Jeff

Rezin
November 12, 2006, 12:18 PM
I have sadly done the 21 myslef as a Marine.

They manually cycle because, as said, the rifle will not cycle without the proper backpressue created by the round exiting/blocking the barrel, so the gas can buidlup. Instead, ALL the gas exits the barrel, not much into the return tube.

In The Marines, we added BFA's (Blank Firing adapters) to our 16's and 60's for war games.

These were metal boxes, with a screw. The box (open on one side) would slide onto the rings of the flash suppressor, and then we would tighten the screw down (The end was machined to smootly plug the barrel) and after we tightened it down, the weapons would cycle. (usually)

The drawback to these were VERY dirty rifles, lol. ans we hated cleaning them in the feild...

This si sort of what we had when I was in... (89-92) ours were red and slide sideways onto the barrel, not over it. Other than that, I think you get the idea ;)

These look tacky, so for the 21 gun honors, they do not use them, and instead cycle the weapon manually.

http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/brakes/Images/giblank.jpg

ID_shooting
November 12, 2006, 12:49 PM
I was once tasked with preping a few m16s out of my arms room for an Honor Guard cermony. They wanted the rifles to fire and cycle with blanks but did not want to blank adapter. After a bit of thought, I took an empty soda can, cut little disks the same size as the muzzle. I then removed the flash supressors and inserted the disks and reinstalled them.

The first round blew the disks out bounced them off the wall. I ended up tripleing the layers and made a pin hole through them. Worked great.

They were able to do the salute without having to manually work the action.

slzy
November 12, 2006, 02:45 PM
i figure the military wore more m16s out by cleaning blanks out than shooting ball

Kaylee
November 12, 2006, 07:07 PM
Makes sense ID --I was just wondering why they didn't just make a "flash supressor" with a sealed base. I guess too much trouble for folks swapping in the field?

Jim Watson
November 12, 2006, 07:13 PM
Theatrical blank adapters are bushings in the barrel or maybe flash hider base so as to hold some pressure to cycle the action; but without showing to the audience.

TexasRifleman
November 12, 2006, 08:47 PM
Theatrical blank adapters are bushings in the barrel or maybe flash hider base so as to hold some pressure to cycle the action; but without showing to the audience.

They go inside the barrel, and usually the flash hider screws on over them.

They are also EXTREMELY dangerous for guns that EVER see live ammo.

You forget that thing is in there and.......

I watched a friends BAR blow up nicely because of it. (same concept on a BAR)

Nightcrawler
November 12, 2006, 09:38 PM
If you cap the muzzle with a blank adapter, the sound is really muted, too. For ceremonial purposes, I think the full on blast works better.

That said, somebody really ought to make a blank firing variant of those 1903 Parade Rifles. The M16 looks kind of weird as a ceremonial weapon.

ID_shooting
November 13, 2006, 01:37 AM
Kaylee,

Things might have changed (this was back in the early 90s) but removing the flash supressor is bad juju troops to do.

TexasGIMan,

Agreed, They were cleaned and inspected before they were put away. I was kinda nervous and triple checked them.

Brian Williams
November 13, 2006, 12:26 PM
The BFA is needed for firing blanks and just a side note it was not a 21 gun salute, but a 3 shot volley to signify a military burial/funeral. A 21 gun salute is done with guns not rifles, guns being an artillery piece. Also a 21 gun salute is for heads of state.

Sisco
November 13, 2006, 03:16 PM
The BFA is needed for firing blanks and just a side note it was not a 21 gun salute, but a 3 shot volley to signify a military burial/funeral. A 21 gun salute is done with guns not rifles, guns being an artillery piece. Also a 21 gun salute is for heads of state.

I did not know that.

c_yeager
November 13, 2006, 03:21 PM
Makes sense ID --I was just wondering why they didn't just make a "flash supressor" with a sealed base. I guess too much trouble for folks swapping in the field?

Without a big visual que it would be too easy for these to get left on a rifle that was to be loaded with life ammunition. For dedicated ceremonial rifles it would make sense, but it would be way too dangerous for training.

Jeff White
November 13, 2006, 05:12 PM
Sisco,
The three volleys of musketry goes back to the days when there would be a truce on the battlefield to allow both sides to tend to their wounded and dead. The three volleys of musketry was the signal to the other side that all the dead had been buried and the wounded tended to and they were ready to return to operations.

That is why three volleys of musketry are fired at the end of a military funeral, to signal the end of the funeral and the continuance of life.

Jeff

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