Handled a Taurus 1911 this weekend.


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jon_in_wv
November 12, 2006, 09:45 PM
One of the local shops had a Taurus 1911 on his counter this weekend so I took the oppurtunity to take a quick look at it. It seemed very well put together. There was very little play in the slide to frame fit and the barrel also seemed to have very little slop in either the hood or the bushing. Overall, all the parts seemed nicely machined and well fitted.....BUT, the under side of the trigger guard was checkered and the checkering on the frame was a bit more pronounced than I would like. All of the checkering on the grips, frame, and mainspring housing was sharp and made the weapon feel "machined". It somehow didn't have the organic feel of a 1911 or a HP. Overall I think it may be just the ticket for some but I would rather spend the 525 he was asking for the Taurus on some type of used 1911.

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jkomp316
November 12, 2006, 10:12 PM
Those should be going for $460... NOT $500+ This price gouging makes me angry, just because its new and not well stocked yet...

jon_in_wv
November 13, 2006, 08:31 AM
Remember this was at a pawn shop though. Thier prices are more like an offer than a price tag. I'm sure I wouldn't pay anymore than about 460 out the door for it with minimal haggling. Even at 500+ they aren't a bad deal. Kimbers, Springfields, etc..can go for 1500 configured the same way. I don't think the quality is equal but the extra grand can go a LOOOONG way.

Manedwolf
November 13, 2006, 08:54 AM
Even at 500+ they aren't a bad deal. Kimbers, Springfields, etc..can go for 1500 configured the same way. I don't think the quality is equal but the extra grand can go a LOOOONG way.

Except from all reports I've heard, the Taurus 1911s, unlike many Kimbers, shoot to match standards without ftf's or stovepipes out of the box, and don't require ramp polishing or being sent to a smith to be tuned before they work right. :neener: ;)

Phenom
November 13, 2006, 09:01 AM
That's because the fit of the Taurus PT1911 isn't as tight as a Kimber 1911.

Ala Dan
November 13, 2006, 09:26 AM
I sell the NIB Taurus PT 1911's everyday for the low price of $459.88~!;)

Just_a_dude_with_a_gun
November 13, 2006, 09:39 AM
That's because the fit of the Taurus PT1911 isn't as tight as a Kimber 1911.

I seem to be reading the opposite. Reviews I've read state the PT is very tight from the factory, Shooting times, and Amer. Rifleman being the ones
I recall.

Phenom
November 13, 2006, 10:26 AM
You're talking gun magazines.

cedjunior
November 13, 2006, 05:39 PM
Gun magazines, and almost ever other user review I've read on here. The only 2 complaints I see on a regular basis are about availability and the finish.

I've been looking for one. Local pawnshop owner/Taurus dealer would have ordered me one for 10% markup + tax if he could find one. Dealer price on the gun is ~$390. One other place actually had one in stock, but he wanted $570 for it.

akanotken
November 13, 2006, 05:47 PM
When are we going to see other calibers come out? 9mm would be nice, but a .40 would be uber cool as well.

orionengnr
November 13, 2006, 08:03 PM
retail price on a Kimber exceed $1000...and those are the same "asking" prices mentioned earlier.

I have bought four (all used) and have spent $575-775 for each. One was a pre-Series II with 16 rounds through it.

Oh, did I mention that three of the four were 3" alloy framed models, and none gave any troubles at all?

Shop on. :)

Lennyjoe
November 13, 2006, 09:24 PM
I fondled one when I was in Florida TDY and I was impressed. I have a Kimber Pro Carry and the son (Springerman 05) has a Springer Mil-Spec and the Taurus seems to have more to offer out of the box. Being that the Mil-Spec is a basic gun, its hard to compare the Taurus to but the Kimber is right on line.

As for the Taurus, I like the checkering on the grip. Also like the Heinne sights, hammer, trigger and fit. The only thing I didn't care for was the ambi safety. Being left handed I want an ambi safety but the Taurus one is just a bit too big. Sticks out too much for me but it's not something that couldn't be overcome.

For $459 I'd grab one in a minute. The store in Fla wanted $525 for it.

jon_in_wv
November 14, 2006, 08:24 AM
I've heard from my gunsmith that Kimber also uses a very loose chamber to promote reliability, but it also leaves the case unsupported. He showed me a casing from a Kimber barrel that had exploded and it was obvious that the chamber was throated too deeply. The Taurus seemed to have a more appropriate throat on the barrel.

jon_in_wv
November 14, 2006, 08:30 AM
Cedjunior, 39 bucks is not a lot of money to order a gun and do all of the paperwork on it. The guy is running a business. Let him make some money. If you don't want to pay 500 bucks than go somewhere else but don't get mad at him because he is trying to turn a profit. We need to support our local gunshops and a 10% markup is kinda low for a $390 dollar gun if he sees other shops selling them for 500. Which is the amount I've seen them for. I'm not trying to flame you but if it was my shop I probably wouldn't do it either unless you were a regular customer who spent a lot of money at my shop.

cedjunior
November 14, 2006, 07:33 PM
Cedjunior, 39 bucks is not a lot of money to order a gun and do all of the paperwork on it. The guy is running a business. Let him make some money. If you don't want to pay 500 bucks than go somewhere else but don't get mad at him because he is trying to turn a profit. We need to support our local gunshops and a 10% markup is kinda low for a $390 dollar gun if he sees other shops selling them for 500. Which is the amount I've seen them for. I'm not trying to flame you but if it was my shop I probably wouldn't do it either unless you were a regular customer who spent a lot of money at my shop.

Trying to flame or not, you jumped the gun there buddy. I don't have any idea where you got the idea that I was mad. I'm still trying to make sense of your post.:confused: I asked the pawn shop owner/taurus dealer if he carried the PT1911. He said no, but that he would see if he could order it for me. He took out the dealer catalog and said "look there it is, $390, I can get it for you for that plus 10% and tax". No where in my original post did I say I was pressuring him to give me that price. Unfortunately, he was not able to order a PT1911 without it being on a lengthy back order, which why I said "if he could find one". Thats a shame too, because he was very eager to sell me one at the price he gave me. But thanks for your opinion :rolleyes:

Brad686
November 15, 2006, 12:46 AM
The reviews of it I've heard so far have been quite good. Taurus I think makes a quality firearm anyway so I don't think I'd hesitate to pick one up myself. $450 you really can't go wrong. Sure, I'd love a Spring or Kimber or Para, etc, but hell, if I wanted a 1911 out of impulse I'd pick up the Taurus.

I'm waiting for a compact version if they don't already have one, those micros are cool :cool:

Sylvilagus Aquaticus
November 15, 2006, 02:01 AM
I've fondled a couple of them in local shops. My favorite shop has had a couple and the 'smith got a 14 shot group at 10 yards that was about the size of a quarter, straight out of the box. Granted, he's a Distinguished shooter, but that's enough for me to want to buy one just so I have a nice 1911 in my rack. He's itching to put a nicer crown on one and see how it really shoots. IIRC, he's got them priced around 469 or so.

Regads,
Rabbit.

SSN Vet
November 15, 2006, 11:27 AM
I WANT ONE !!!

But I don't get how a Colt 1991 series w/ a 5" barrel measures 8-1/2" overall.

and

a the Taurus PT1911 w/ a 5" barrel measures 6-1/2" overall (according to the Taurus web site).

is this an error on the Taurus sight?

or did they change the grip angle?

don't get it...

Cowboybootnut
November 15, 2006, 02:59 PM
I saw one today at a local Dallas gun store. They have it for $489 cash and $509 credit. I think that for the price and the reports on accuracy and reliablity it is a good deal.

I just have a Ruger DC90 and a Colt Defender in .45.

I am thinking............. :scrutiny:

Phil DeGraves
November 15, 2006, 03:15 PM
"Even at 500+ they aren't a bad deal. Kimbers, Springfields, etc..can go for 1500 configured the same way."

The most expensive top of the line model Kimbers, brand new don't go for $1500 unless you are a sucker. You can get a entry level Kimber which is made in AMERICA new for about $650. Even their high end ones top out at about $1200. We'll see which ones are still running 5000 rounds from now. I haven't had any trouble with my American made Kimbers and Colts. I've had nothing but problems with my Brazilian made Springer (although it is unbelievably accurate...when it works).

jon_in_wv
November 15, 2006, 10:07 PM
You know what, Ced, I'm confused too. I must have misread your post, my apologies.

jon_in_wv
November 15, 2006, 10:10 PM
Kimbers have come down in price and while many models are closer to 600 bucks now they have plenty of models that seem to still be over 1000 bucks. The market has become fat with "custom" 1911's. They aren't getting the same premiun they were when Kimber started out.

SSN Vet
November 16, 2006, 11:18 AM
or do the other half a billion people not count:rolleyes:

Phil DeGraves
November 16, 2006, 11:35 AM
American made means USA. I didn't think I needed to make the distinction, but I will respect your technical interpretation.

Cromlech
November 16, 2006, 11:57 AM
Gather around, I'm here to sell!

The Amazonian Eagle .45 - a high quality firearm, made in (the) America(s).

:D

razorburn
November 16, 2006, 03:32 PM
Eh... a global economy is inevitable now. I really couldn't care less where the stuff I buy is made, whoever gives me the best value gets my money.

Cowboybootnut
November 17, 2006, 10:21 AM
I put a Taurus 1911 on lay away last night. My gun range sells them for $464 with a membership discount. :)

Caimlas
November 17, 2006, 11:39 AM
A guy over at my forums got one (http://forums.boiledfrog.us/viewtopic.php?id=125) mid-June or so. He's got a whole mess of 1911s (dozens? hundreds? a lot, at any rate), and he said he thinks it's one of his favorites (if not THE favorite).

He updates that thread several times, so keep in mind it's not just the initial post. He's put a couple thousand rounds through it w/o a malfunction, and he has sent it off to the shop to get refinished at the moment.

Me, I want to get one, but I'm drawn between waiting for the PT-1911B3 (the shorter barreled model - 4.25" w/ 6+1 round capacity), which also lacks the hideous front slide serations. But if I wait, the price might (probably will) go up, and the PT1911 might not even be available at all... oh the agony!

Meh. I might as well just get a Springer MilSpec Parkerized. I've never heard anyone have a problem with Springfields - entirely unlike Kimber. Ya gotta hand it to Kimber, though - they've got an awesome advertising department (external extractors? hellooo?).

Caimlas
November 17, 2006, 11:51 AM
The most expensive top of the line model Kimbers, brand new don't go for $1500 unless you are a sucker. You can get a entry level Kimber which is made in AMERICA new for about $650. Even their high end ones top out at about $1200.


There are a heck of a lot of suckers out there, then, because I've never seen or heard anyone talk a gun shop down that much on a new gun.

We'll see which ones are still running 5000 rounds from now.

It won't likely be the Kimber, if it's one of the external extractor Kimbers. And if this means anything: (http://forums.boiledfrog.usviewtopic.php?pid=1709#p1709)

The billboard it the giant writing on the sides of the slide. On the m1911.org forums a guy had a Rockwell hardness test and a metallurgical exam. IT turns out it is over 30 rc and well forged steel. A great base gun, equal to a springer. All forged. So, the gun is worth the money in my book. The fact I could not jam it speaks wonders.

Sorry, Kimber used to make great guns, and they still do in many respects. However, I've heard too many failure horror stories (and witnessed quite a few FTEs and feedramp problems with multiple Kimbers) to put my money on one, particularly when there's such a huge price difference between a Kimber and a (metallically superior) Springfield MilSpec which is substantially less likely to jam.

If a 3rd world country like Brazil can get it done better and for less, why can't a proud American company like Kimber at least maintain quality while drop price a bit?

Phil DeGraves
November 17, 2006, 06:26 PM
The Kimber Custom 2 retails new for $680. The Eclipse 2, Raptor 2 and a lot of their upper echelon guns go for $1080-$1180 depending on the model. The Gold Match (their top of the line gun) retails at $1280. That's a far cry from $1500. I don't know where you can find price gouging like that. It certainly isn't coming from Kimber.
You could be right on the external extractor models, but the ones I have don't have them and they have discontinued using them precisely because they didn't work properly. Isn't that what they are supposed to do? What is the complaint?

I just know that my Brazilian made Springer doesn't run nearly as well as my Kimbers or Colts and with the shipping twice to get it fixed (which they still haven't managed to do yet) it is nearly the same price as the Kimber.

Phil DeGraves
November 17, 2006, 06:32 PM
I am not disputing the quality of the materials used in the Brazilian guns. I am not disputing quality at all. I hope they work. My Brazilian Springer is one of the best shooting guns accuracy wise that I own. I really want to like it. I am just witholding judgement. I have one other Taurus firearm (24/7) that runs like a dream. I hope the 1911 works as well but we really can't make a blanket judgement until more of them are in circulation.

"If a 3rd world country like Brazil can get it done better and for less, why can't a proud American company like Kimber at least maintain quality while drop price a bit?"

I can't find any fault in that statement at all.

pedaldude
November 17, 2006, 06:59 PM
I handled one yesterday myself and it was very nice very well fitted and a nice trigger, much better than the SS "loaded" springfields that sell for $700. The price of $530 is right up there but with it being new and the demand high I imagine they will have no trouble getting rid of it also MSRP on the Taurus site says $630 so it isn't that bad. I don't care for the rollmark, forward cocking serrations or the Straight-8 sights but I'd definitely take one if it were given to me and not complain.

Helstrm
November 17, 2006, 07:17 PM
I have seen far more failures in Kimbers than I have in Springers. I have also seen Kimbers run flawless. Kimber let it's QC go downhill for a while but they are making a comeback. I will also add that every new Springer I have handled is very well put together. Even the GI and Milspec have a great fit and finish. I have yet to read anything bad about the Taurus 1911. I also carry a RIA 1911 as my primary carry gun and it does not skip a beat.... As far as keeping the money in the US.. The Distributors and dealers are US.

Taurus, Kimber, SA, RIA, Colt ect all make fine weapons and at any given time you can get a lemon. If your Spinger is having issues send it back.. Like several of the other brands they have a lifetime warranty on them.. On that note the first batch of RIA Tacticals are in the US now... I think they are about the same price as the Taurus but I am not 100% sure about that.

jon_in_wv
November 19, 2006, 10:10 AM
Wow, we went from a Taurus thread to a Kimber thread. I don't have 1500 or 1200 bucks for a new 1911. This thread was started about the Tuarus 1911 because I had an oppurtunity to personally handle one and I wished to comment on it. I'm sure there is another thread somewhere else that would be more appropriate for you guys to brag about your Kimbers or to bash them.

bigsarg99
November 19, 2006, 08:30 PM
Well ill just stick with the taurus 1911, I came across a 1911-1 rail model last week for 530.00 in one of the high end gun shops near me and It handled nicely and looked much like its high priced competition. I have been looking for a Tactical 1911 rail gun and I wish I knew they had a raill model before I went and ordered a caspian recon from to build up on. Oh well the caspian has a personalized serial #:), but i may have to sneak some of the Christamas money into a Layaway of a Taurus and have Two Rail guns!

Master Blaster
November 20, 2006, 09:48 AM
I've heard from my gunsmith that Kimber also uses a very loose chamber to promote reliability, but it also leaves the case unsupported. He showed me a casing from a Kimber barrel that had exploded and it was obvious that the chamber was throated too deeply. The Taurus seemed to have a more appropriate throat on the barrel.

You know I have loaded and fired about 20,000 rounds through my two kimbers, and i havent noticed any loose chamber issues with either of them, the both still have their original extractors. I cant even remember the last time I had a FTF or FTE with either of them, The TLEII has never ever jammed in about 6,000 or so rounds, and my custom classic target may have jammed twice in the first five hundred rounds but the last 14,000 or so it has been 100% and it still has no play at all in the slide to frame or barrel to slide fit.

My Springer Milspec needed a new extractor at about 2000 rounds but that was an easy fix.

Just my experience.

The base model Kimbers go for $680 around here and the TLE is selling for $750 with night sights.

jon_in_wv
November 20, 2006, 10:44 AM
The Taurus I handled seemed pretty well put together. I handled a Rock Island Armory yesterday and I guess I would put it on par with that. The things I didn't like about the Taurus were more a matter of preference. Too many sharp edges and too much sharp checkering for my taste. I didn't have the organic feel that I love from the 1911 and the Hi-power. It felt more like a machine if that makes any sense. I bet It would feel nicer with a smooth set of grips. I wish I had a chance to shoot it. I may change my mind if it shoots well.

bnlchris18
November 26, 2006, 03:46 AM
Ala Dan, can you please tell me the name of your website, I am dying to get my hands on one and so far your offering the best price I've seen. Thanks

jon_in_wv
November 29, 2006, 03:38 PM
Master Blaster, you are giving out a little bit of confusing info. Loose chamber dimensions would neither cause FTF or FTE, on the contrary, Kimber and others use looser chamber dimensions to PROMOTE reliability. I'm not sure what "loose chamber issues" you are talking about. You would probably never have an issue with factory pressure ammo. Where the problem lies is in an overpressure round, like one that has been handloaded too hot, or a weak casing, in which case the unsupported area of the casing could rupture and could detonate one of more of the rounds in the magazine. Additionally, you seem to be implying that your guns are exceptional because they have fired 10,000 rounds each with out replacing the extractors? Thats an odd statement. Are Kimbers known for weak extractors? I've heard you should replace your recoil spring every few thousand rounds but not extractors.

havoc1969
December 14, 2006, 12:23 AM
I have a bunch of series 70 and 80 Colts, a Sig GSR Revoution, and tonight ordered a PT1911 Taurus,,, should be interesting!

treebeard
December 14, 2006, 08:45 AM
I don't own any Kimbers or Springfield's. I own a S&W 1911PD, Dan Wesson Commander Classic Bobtail, and the Taurus PT-1911. The PT-1911 was by far the cheapest, but it is in a price catageroy of it's own. If Ala Dan sells it for the price he posted then I personally think it is by far the best value for a NIB 1911 that performs well. Just my 2 1/2 cents.:D :D

jon_in_wv
December 15, 2006, 06:47 PM
I wish they would offer a plain jane one without all of the checkering. I would be more interested in that.

Feanaro
December 15, 2006, 07:22 PM
Ala Dan, can you please tell me the name of your website, I am dying to get my hands on one and so far your offering the best price I've seen.

Not to speak for Dan but Simmons Sporting Goods, the store he works for, doesn't have a website AFAIK. They are located in Bessemer Alabama, my yellow pages lists their phone number as 205-425-4720.

Walkalong
December 15, 2006, 07:35 PM
that Kimber also uses a very loose chamber to promote reliability

You could not tell it from my two Kimbers. They will shoot little bug holes on days I am shooting well and there is no part of the case except the solid case head sticking out of the chamber. Sloppy chambers do not shoot little bug holes. Who worked on the one your gunsmith was looking at I wonder?

jon_in_wv
December 17, 2006, 04:25 PM
Once again. This thread was started about the TAURUS 1911. Funny, this thread is titled, "I handled a Taurus 1911 this weekend" and it has become flooded with Kimber owners. Why the need to compare your Kimber to a Taurus? Obviously the build and finish of a Kimber SHOULD be a lot better than the PT1911. You are paying a lot more money afterall. Why the need to come on a Taurus thread and carry on about your Kimber? If your sure its a good weapon, you shouldn't feel the need to constantly defend it to everyone else. This thread is simply about my first impression of the Taurus.

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