[LexusNexus]

I read something about this Metal Storm the other day. I dont' know if it's near completion but it sounds to have lots of potential. Anyone know if it's coming civilian world any time soon?

[Hanzo581]

Last thing I saw about it, there is a pistol prototype for LE, that has lethal and defferent types of non lethal projectiles, in four different barrels, I would say it will be quite a while before you can get something like that

[RNB65]

Metal Storm seems to me to be a solution looking for a problem. A problem which probably doesn't exist. I'll continue to be a doubter until someone adopts a practical weapons system based on MS technology.

[jason10mm]

I can see the efficacy of the design for fixed or vehicle anti-missle defense systems (simple bolt on box that throws up a hail of lead in front of a warhead), but as a personal weapon I don't think it makes much sense. You would probably have some first to last shot accuracy problems as the effective barrel length changes for each shot, no easy way to reload, and you would be reliant on a power source that could fail. I don't see the advantages for such a high rate of fire in a portable weapon either.

[Medusa]

Well, the HK G11 offers a 3 round burst at 2000rpm rate, but the package is much more convenient, and easier to load (mag-fed). Reloading the ammo would be a pain, though, since it's caseless. As a personal weapon something similar to G11 would be a better idea than MS type.

[dfaugh]

Personally, I think its...well....silly. Yes, you can fire a ridiculous number of rounds really fast. But, reloads take a L-O-N-G time(I't bassically a breechloader!). So it's of limited usefulness. Whereas "chaingun" technoolgy has reached a point where you can have vitually unlimited ammo, and still maintain an EXTREMELY high rate of fire.

[junyo]

As I understand it, the quickest way to reload a Metalstorm is to replace the expended barrels with new preloaded ones, or even the entire barrel rack at once. Short of being overrun by zombie hordes or a "human wave" style attack what situation requires a ridiculous volume of fire for a couple of seconds, but would then allow you 10-15 minutes down to reload? And accuracy is right out; if it's hard getting a double barrel drilling gun to have the same point of aim for two barrels, what kind of PITA would it be for a 10x10 rack of barrels, which as jason10mm points out have variable barrel lengths, and therefore varaible bullet velocities/trajectories from shot to shot.

[GunnySkox]

I think it does have some potentially really cool applications. I saw one video where they had what looked sort of like those Hedgehog anti-submarine launchers from world war two, loaded up with some kind of grenade or mortar style shells (I honestly can't remember if they mentioned the caliber of the shells, but it was definitely something more serious than just regular ol' boolits).

Anyway, while I think that their small-arms "solutions" are rather silly, I think there are a couple of places in which the Metal Storm thing could excel(sp?):

Anti-missile systems: I don't know how a couple of those big metal storm boxes would compare to the regular ol' Phalanx, but my intense lack of education on the subject tells me that if you could acheive a much higher rate of fire than the Phalanx, you could acheive a higher hit probability against faster, more advanced cruise missiles and things. Of course, I don't know enough about the Phalanx OR the Metal Storm to know if replacing it is necessary or worthwhile.

Rapid response/mobile artillery: If metal storms are available in a mortar size, how sweet would it be to be able to deliver an entire fire mission in the blink of an eye? It's like that whole "beaten zone" thing that people figured out before WWII, where you try to hit as many guys as possible before they can get out the way, only mortar-style, and not requiring as many actual mortar units.

Full disclosure: I don't know squat about anything.
~GnSx

[tellner]

If you need to put that much kinetic energy into the air that quickly we already have explosives. That's why they called them Panzergrenadiers.

[Lupinus]

I think it has a small list of practicle uses.....but then agian so does a car that can do a 9 second 1/4 mile....but damn if I don't want one anyway :neener:

In all seriousness I don't think it will be the next big thing, it just isn't practicle for things like small arms. Now on a ship for something like missle defense yes, it has a use, but chain guns don't do bad in the role and are easier to reload and carry more ammo. The quickist way to reload a metal storm type wepon is to switch out pre loaded barrels (or whatever the cluster of barrels would be called, pod maybe?) I would think hooking another belt of ammo into the chain gun to be a lot faster then that. It's only advantage is a rediculesly high rate of fire, but it isn't to practicle.

[hso]

Nothing new since the last discussions here on THR. Multibarrel 9mm and less-lethal prototypes have supposedly been created.

[MechAg94]

I sort of liked the aircraft application they mentioned. I can see this being useful on the transport plane gun ships as a way to decrease the crew needed to load and operate. It might make it possible to do a similar mission with other aircraft as well. You might be able to do damage similar to a cluster bomb strike looking at the simulation they put up.

As far as chain guns, could a set of barrels hold the same ammo as a currently held on say the A-10 warhog? If it could, you could eliminate the rotating mechanism and maybe even add more barrels. It might also give better burst control. It could be set to fire so many rounds at a time rather than relying on the pilot's trigger control. Personally, I think the benefits drop off the smaller in caliber you get.

I am not sure about vehicles. A couple of mortar "pods" mounted on a stryker might be nice or at least something similar. Could a barrel full of mortar rounds be made as light or lighter than a mortar tube? Maybe a sleeve that fits in a tube to fire of 4 or 5 rounds? Hard to say since I have zero experience with those weapons. :)

I agree that I don't see the great application for small arms due to reloading and power requirement. Pistols are about the only thing even close. I think people like it partly because it might allow use of the owner recognition toys that anti's love talk about.

[MechAg94]

All that being said, I am not sure I see where that really, really high rate of fire actually helps. Very limited benefit for the apparent downsides for small arms at least.

[Lupinus]

Mech-

Thats one of the problems though, even if you could fit the same ammount of ammo (probably the same or more possibly given you dont have a case and what not) you'd need to have substantionaly more to compensate for the redicules rate of fire. It isn't ammo capacity matching up to current capacitys that makes it impracticle, its keeping up and finding a realistic use for the high rate of fire.

[armoredman]

Actually, I can see them placed strategically around monuments, government offices, disguised as planters, decorative stonework, etc, remotely activated. A short burst of incredible fury might be all that is needed to disrupt a potential terrorist attack. Also might be effective against short range missle attacks, given a seconds' warning.
Other than that, not my idea of a very useful device.

[Lupinus]

yes they would work well, but so do chain guns. Our ships already have in the chain gun just about everything offered by the metal storm. All metal storm offers is a high rate of fire, the problem is it isn't sustainable like a chain gun is because the rate is so high.

[Car Knocker]

I't bassically a breechloader!

So are most other modern firearms. :D

I believe you may have been thinking muzzleloader, although one would be loading the barrel with multiple charges and projectiles - perhaps a simple pre-charged rifled barrel that would slip into a barrel shroud containing electrical contact points. I imagine one of the necessities to reloading a barrel would be the need to verify electrical continuity to each charge after the reloading process - a dud in the stack would be...inconvenient.

[crunker]

It would be good to mount a Metal Storm grenade launcher on a tank and control the ROF. But as a small arms system? Naaaa.....

[benEzra]

I don't see any civilian applications, personally. New Jersey is touting its Metal Storm handgun (a paper design that may eventually be executed in unobtanium), but to me, a handgun that gives you 7 shots to different points of aim, and then to reload it you have to replace the whole barrel (at great cost), isn't attractive at all. On a typical trip to the range with my 9mm, I'll go through maybe $10-$20 worth of ammunition (50-100 rounds of bulk pack). Something tells me that 7 pre-loaded Metal Storm barrels are going to cost more than $10 total...

[ZeSpectre]

I suppose I could see a military application for a metalstorm system in a handgun. Not for a high rate of fire but because the system could be sealed up against the elements until fired. Now assuming the multiple rounds in a barrel could be fired one at a time then you make a very simple system for replacing a pre-loaded barrel with another just like you'd drop a mag and insert another right now. No external moving parts to get sand in and so forth.

Just pondering the possibilities.

[Lupinus]

if you are talking sealing something you could do the same for magazines. Sure it would slow you donw to have your magazine in a plastic bag but you'd have to unseal the metalstorm barrel as well.

I's also consider accuracy. To make it affordable enough to bother with the disposable barrels are going to need to be pretty cheap. Barrels now are far from cheap and to use barrels of the same quality to load metalstorm in would be expensive as hell.

Getting the twist rate too, every shot is goign to have a different barrel length to go down so how does that work out?

The power supply?

Getting the barrel to hook up and come off quickly while it still holds securly?

As a small arm metal storm is even more impracticle then it is as a heavy fire or stationary weapon.

[dfaugh]

I believe you may have been thinking muzzleloader

Oops! yeah, that's what I meant....fingers got ahead of brain.....

[owen]

for missle defense accuracy isn't important. You are looking for a shotgun effect.

No one says you have to fire the whole package either.

reloading a shipborne system: There's no reason why you couldn't just replace the a box that snaps into a receiver. Also, for the smaller size (getting rid of the mechanics saves a lot orf space and weight), you could mount dozens and doxens for the same weight as a phalanx system (i'm betting a phalanx with it ammo supply (which is also pretty small) is well over 5000 pounds.

I think it has a ton of utility for things like air defense, missle defense, final protective fires, and the like. For small arms, I think it's pretty limited.

[MechAg94]

Mech-

Thats one of the problems though, even if you could fit the same ammount of ammo (probably the same or more possibly given you dont have a case and what not) you'd need to have substantionaly more to compensate for the redicules rate of fire. It isn't ammo capacity matching up to current capacitys that makes it impracticle, its keeping up and finding a realistic use for the high rate of fire.
The metalstorm uses electronic fire control. You can set it up for whatever rate of fire or length of burst you want. You don't have to fire at 1,000,000/minute. I really can't think of any application where 1,000,000/min would be practical for anything beyond 5 or 10 rounds. I think the FutureWeapons show touted the high rate of fire as a way to penetrate armor or bunkers, but that was only with a short burst.

[Lupinus]

yes you can adjust its rate of fire

Bit if its having the same rate of fire as a chain gun wheres the advantage? There isn't one cause you are taking away its only real advantage, which isn't a practicle one in the first place.

[Zen21Tao]

Here is a nice informational video on the Metal Storm weapon system. All I can say is WOW... :
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/239653/metal_storm_weapon_system/

[K-Romulus]

Metalstorm's pistol is the leading candidate for a marketable "smart gun."

Article (http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0EIN/is_2003_August_29/ai_107037756)

More detailed article (http://www.njit.edu/publicinfo/newsroom/Spotlight_smartgun.php)

Photo spread (http://www.njit.edu/publicinfo/pdf/smartgunphotos.pdf)

As soon as they get it halfway functional, NJ's enacted "smart gun" law will mandate it as the only pistol allowed to be sold or owned in that state. MD, with a "smart gun committee" that meets once a year to evaluate the state of the technology, will soon follow.

When CA (the largest firearms market in the US) gets on board, it's all down hill from there. . .:eek:

[Caanis Lupus]

The area denial demo I saw was cool.

I think also this ismore about the underlying tech than replacing proven systems.

Being able to put 200 grenades in the air useful all the time? No. But is calling a B-52/B-2/B-1 for a small area useful?

Small caliber units could be good point defense for road blocks and such.

Any tool can be put in a situation it was not designed for and not look effective. For the situations that these could be useful in they will be prety cool I think.

Didn't they do an accuracy demo at one time also? Been forever since I went to their page and my office machine bites.

[JesseL]

I think the next real big advancement in personal small arms will be based on the light gas gun (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_gas_gun). It could be the final realization of the desires of all the guys who have dreamed of building a .17-50BMG.

At 19,000FPS, the 220 Swift, 17 Remington, 223 WWSM, and 204 Ruger could kiss my nethers.:evil:

[mdao]

IMHO, the MetalStorm system is best seen as a long range big bore shotgun. It will never replace rifles or pistols, and is only better than miniguns in very specific circumstances (CIWS and possibly on fighter aircraft).

I've always wondered why they never thought of using the MetalStorm "tubes" as cartridges and use a revolver-style barrel/forcing cone arrangement. It'd remove the cost of expensive disposable barrels and fix the first-last shot accuracy issues. Possibly something to do with the "no mechanical" mantra that the MetalStorm designers are following. Hmm, that would make burst firing revolvers possible. I'd buy two. :D

Still, wonder what the BATFE would think about those...

If you need to put that much kinetic energy into the air that quickly we already have explosives. That's why they called them Panzergrenadiers.

Why not MetalStorm + explosives?

As Caanis Lupus mentioned, it's very useful in mining. Short of an MLRS strike, nothing else comes close matching MetalStorm in minefield deployment speed. Same thing for mortar attacks. Stick a rack of MetalStorm based mortars in the back of a HUMVEE and you can get a lot of explosives on target and be gone before the rounds hit the ground. It'd also work well for tank smoke grenade launchers, and anti-missile defense.

[Grey54956]

MetalStorm as a point defense weapon, maybe. Emplacements, maybe. Personal weapon, most likely not...