Kahr PM Series?


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Crosstimbers Okie
November 14, 2006, 02:07 PM
Hello Kahr PM 9 owners. I have a K9 and I'm considering something even smaller and lighter for pocket and ankle carry. Initially there were a lot of reliability problems with the polymer framed pistols. Have they been worked out or are people still experiencing them?

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redneckrepairs
November 14, 2006, 02:21 PM
As I understand it they are pretty well worked out with current production . ( serial no prefix vb and later ) Mine has been flawless after the break in rounds .
Had a few failures to return to batt. during the first 200 or so rnds thou . If in doubt about the PM series get a p9 covert ( it has the p9 slide and recoil system that is proven ) thou a bit longer than a PM , there are not many places where you can put a PM that a p9 covert wont go since the butt is the same length .

Maximum1
November 14, 2006, 11:26 PM
I'm considering getting a second light weight 9mm and was thinking about a Kahr PM9 although when I look at the price compared to my Kel-Tec P-11 I'm trying to figure out why is the Kahr TWICE the price of a Kel-Tec P-11?

They is nothing worng with my P-11 in fact I love it... It's with me all the time I just want a second compact 9mm.

banddr2
November 15, 2006, 01:10 AM
I just bought one two weeks ago, it was flawless and 100% after about 400 rounds so far. Accuracy is not as good as the cw9 I had, but still very accurate under 10 yards, and I might get better at longer ranges with more practice as I am not great with double action triggers.

I had a p11 a few years ago, my opinion is the karh pm9 shoots way more easily, recoil is very light, incredible for a gun this size and weight. Once you shoot one you will want to chuck the p11.

jlh26oo
November 15, 2006, 02:31 AM
Not impressed enough with mine to recommend. Several failures in 400+ rounds, but does seem to run ok now. Not that I wouldn't trust it to get 7 off, but just not impressed with the quality of the pm9 to trust it to SHOOT it enough to carry with confidence. Poorly finished/molded frame quality (not so much worried about looks on the outside, but the working internal surfaces), and much softer polymer than that of for example GLOCK.

And this is a point of some disagreement- but it was recently quoted in a gunrag that the life expectancy of the pm9 is 6k rounds. The author even said Kahr admits as much. According to Kahr, this is a mistake, and the mag will print a retraction next month. I'll be watching (will probably find it opposite a full page color ad for the p45 ;) ). I trust the gunrag about as much as I trust Kahr (little to none), but I just think about who has the greatest motivation to spin that little (alleged) admission the hardest, since someone is obviously lying. Plus considering that the author said that in context of PRAISING the pm9 as the model that "owns" the entire subcompatc class, gives the statemnt more credence. And after weighing the overall quality of the pm9, I would not disbelieve the statement. I owuld only recommend a pm9 if you are good with "Shoot a little, carry alot." I am not.

But it does have it's strong points. PM9 is one of the best firepower:size/weight ratios out there. So flat, so slim. And very shootable, very accurate. While the plastic frame is imo less than accpetable, the slide is very well made/finished. It is true that once broken in, it becomes a whole new gun, in that you can take it down with only your finger on the button, and the slide slicks up considerably. I don't like the long trigger reset and pull, but it is a light, and very smooth trigger. But if your k9 is an elite, you are already familiar with the pm9 trigger (all polymer kahrs have the elite trigger).

My advice is to stick with your k9. If you need something a little shorter in length and height (though not much in the way of weight), then make it a mk9. Kahr steel >>> Kahr plastic imo, ymmv.

RNB65
November 15, 2006, 10:36 AM
Kahr poly guns are still a role of the dice. Get a good one and you'll be thilled. Get a lemon and you'll be p****d.

I bought a NIB P9 last March. After 500 rounds it was still experiencing regular cycling failures (2-3 failures per 100rds). Sent it to Kahr and they returned it 5 weeks later. It's worked find ever since.

buzz_knox
November 15, 2006, 10:47 AM
trust the gunrag about as much as I trust Kahr (little to none), but I just think about who has the greatest motivation to spin that little (alleged) admission the hardest, since someone is obviously lying. Plus considering that the author said that in context of PRAISING the pm9 as the model that "owns" the entire subcompatc class, gives the statemnt more credence.

It's possible that there was a misunderstanding, which is what Kahr told me when I asked them. They said the Kahr is tested to 6000 rounds or so, and the author (Duane Thomas) took that to mean it was tested to failure at that level. Kahr was . . . displeased with the article, so much so that the responding e-mail to me cc'd Frank Harris. I suspect Mr. Thomas will be publishing a correction in the near future.

atblis
November 15, 2006, 11:44 AM
The reliability is what keeps me from snapping one up. Haven't been able to figure out if they work or not. ~$500 and it might work or

~$250 and it might work. You decide.
http://filebox.vt.edu/users/atblis/pf9_01.jpg

jayp
November 15, 2006, 02:13 PM
My PM 40 had to go back to Kahr-would not return to battery. They got it back to me in less than 2 weeks. Better but not 100%, still an occasional hiccup (slide locks open with rounds remaining, or needs a nudge to return to battery.) I need to shoot it again to see if this is a break in issue. If it continues, I'll send it back to Kahr again.

You might have to work with it to get it to work. Nothing like it, in such a small but powerful package, though.

jlh26oo
November 16, 2006, 02:13 AM
Good point atblis.

That is the BIGGEST gun I have EVER seen for only $250!

:eek:

CPshooter
November 16, 2006, 06:29 AM
To my bitter surprise my PM9 sucked really bad. I'm trying to get rid of it right now.. maybe it was just my experience, but I just didn't like the gun. It really sounded ideal. Polymer, really small and flat, basically the perfect concealed carry pocket auto. It didn't end up that way. Mine also had several failures with all kinds of bullets. Specifically it was the common failure to return to battery, where the bullet just hangs up on the feed ramp and won't pop into the barrel. The polymer construction is terrible. Soft, crappy polymer that doesnt look like it would ever take too much abuse. Some coners/edges looked bent and smooshed a bit, like they were already wearing down. The frame/slide fit was terrible and there was a huge ugly gap that disappeared as you grabbed the front of the gun and gave it a little squeeze.

Then there was Kahr. I called in about the problem after having a hard time getting through, finally sent it back to them, asked them to put night sights on it and give me 2 extra mags as well. They sent it back with what looked like a really hacked up "polishing of the barrel throat" job. Of course, they forgot to install the night sights and give me the two extra mags...I was so angry at this point that i knew the gun's ultimate destiny. Since they didn't forget to charge me for the night sights and mags they never installed, I sent it back and made sure i got a perfect pistol when it came back. I loaded up some federal hydra shock 9mms and after the 3rd shot the slide didnt close back up. I'm not even going to bother anymore. All that severely breaking in crap is not what makes a reliable gun that you can rely on. Getting one that works from day 1 is what I'm all about. My local shop is trying to get rid of it for me and i will never buy a Kahr product again. I'd sell you mine, but I'd feel bad selling it after i told you it is such a POS.

Take your chances, but from my personal experience after owning and personally carrying alot of the newer guns out there, i can honestly tell you that you would be better off with ANYTHING else for your money.

Desk Jockey
November 16, 2006, 08:39 AM
The reports of spotty reliability steered me away from the PM9. I bought an MK9 instead, and it's been very good so far.

Before I made a purchase, I was looking at the PM9 in Sportman's Warehouse. The guy standing beside me saw what I was looking at and gave me his review. He's a city cop; told me that he and most of his buddies carry a PM9 as backup or off-duty weapons. They all love them - BUT - about 1/3 of them end up going back to Kahr for some work before they're 100% reliable. I certainly can't vouch for the accuracy of his statements, but that's what he told me.

Most of what I've read indicates that the all-steel models have a higher out-of-the-box reliability rate, so I went with one of them. No complaints yet, but I've only put about 500 rounds through it.

texagun
November 16, 2006, 10:01 AM
Wow...I'm surprised to read of all the bad luck with the PM9. I bought one a few weeks ago and it has been an excellent gun right out of the box. Excellent reliability and excellent accuracy. The gun shoots right to the point-of-aim at 15 yards with all shots going into the head area of a standard silloutte target. If you read the manual before you shoot it, they recommend disassembly and lubing before shooting it. I did that, and had no problems. The gun is flat and thin and carries well and hidden in the front pocket of jeans or kahkis in a Don Hume Front Pocket Holster. My Glock 27 stood out like a sore thumb in my front pocket. The PM9 will handle +P's just fine and serves its purpose as a highly concealable pocket pistol. In the Handguns article by Duane Thomas alluded to above, he called it the Ultimate Pocket Pistol. I would have to agree.


http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y46/w5lx/PM9RightSide.jpg

banddr2
November 16, 2006, 10:53 AM
I think with any "cutting edge" design there are going to be alot of early problems with reliability. From all I have read I think Kahr has solved most of the problems by now. I mean, this is a 9mm in the size of what used to be a .25 cal gun 20 years ago. It has to be clean and well lubbed at all times. I have had the CW9 and PM9 now that were mfg. in the past year and have not had any problems or complaints. But, with a pistol as small as the pm9 I would not be suprised if there are problems from time to time. It's the price paid for less size and weight. One just has to stay on top of things with it, I plan on replacing spring often.

StexFJR
November 16, 2006, 11:05 AM
Guess I'm lucky too. My PM-9 has run flawlessly for the first 1000 rds so far. Sounds like you either get a good one or a lemon.

baja272
November 16, 2006, 04:03 PM
Big fan of the pm40, Fawless and small with a bit of a snap to it when hot loads are used.

baja272
November 16, 2006, 04:07 PM
Hey Baja272:

Congratulations on your first post. Welcome aboard. Wait a minute, I'm Baja272. I guess I've been lurking around here too long.

texagun
November 16, 2006, 04:11 PM
Hey baja272,

And I thought I was the only one around here that talked to himself........
In any case, welcome aboard and let us hear more about the PM 40.:)
How long have you had it?
How many rounds?
Any problems?
Any peening?
Any failure to feed?
You know........stuff like that.

orionengnr
November 16, 2006, 08:22 PM
...about a year.

P45, about three months.

Would buy another of each without hesitation.

Carry one or the other (depending on weather) 7/365.

CPshooter
November 16, 2006, 10:20 PM
Maybe mine was a lemon, but either way I would say it is somewhat of a gamble to trust your life on. My G27 is much harder to conceal comfortably, and ill agree with that much.. then again EVERYTHING is harder to conceal compared to my PM9. It really is an ideal CCW, i just dont trust it. I think an MK40 would be a better choice. Same size as the PM series except made of all steel(Kahr's strong side), and it would shoot a .40 without too much snap since it's heavier when compared to the PM40. Even the MK9 would be awesome. I just wouldnt go with the polymer. Kahr just doesn't seem to have its act together when it comes to the polymer stuff. Thats just my 2 cents though.

baja272
November 18, 2006, 11:42 PM
Texagun:

Thanks for the welcome.

I have had the PM40 for about a year and put about 150 to 200 rounds through it without a problem. Every round has been Golden Saber +P's. My wife is small and does not care for the snappiness (if that's a word). She prefers 45acp Sigs but thats another story. Either way I carry the Kahr all the time when I'm wearing shorts and DO trust my life on it. It fits well in a galco ankle holster and in a pocket holster.

I highly reccommend it.

gym
April 1, 2008, 12:40 AM
I got the first model in 9mm the p9 over 10 yrs ago, I am looking for an excuse to get that little 6 round 9mm. But here are my thoughts, it the steel p9 jammed twice, after it had a couple hundred through it. I know about limp wrists and all things limp. Once a gun fails to feed twice on me, "steel frame", 20 inch arms, it's not a limp thing. I have always made it a rule to sell the gun, and move on. But after staying away for a decade, my question is, are these little suckers better now? thay sure as hell have enough models. I would like a seacamp replacement, something almost as small with 9mm bieng the smallest round I feel safe with. Yes I know all the stats, I just don't wish to become one. I picked up a 9mm xd sub compact, nib, and now am feeling that it's too heavy to carry, I was carrying my titanium Taurus , (nice gun), prefer 1 or 3 more rounds in 9mm. Suggestions?I shoot well enough that it dosen't matter wheather it's a 9 or 45, revolver or auto, it just has to has to knockdown who I am shooting at, I'll put the round where it does the most damage, 5 shot 38's over 357's serve no real advantage, in Florida, you could go through every house on the block,lol.and if you have a multiple attacker scenerio, I hate to have only 5 rounds, and have to reload in the dark , or under a street light while some jackass is aiming at me. Gotta get a pm9 orpm40, they even came out with 3 45's, one looks nice, any thoughts, other than an airstrike.

Dan-O
April 1, 2008, 01:42 AM
Gym

My PM9 has been flawless. I am picking up my PM45 tomorrow. Rolling the dice on the PM45 as it is new to the market. They stand behind their guns, so I am not worried about sending it back to get worked on if need be.

Cowboy2
April 1, 2008, 09:21 AM
My PM9 has been perfect.

atblis
April 1, 2008, 07:59 PM
PM45
I wouldn't say the PM45 is new to the market. It's been out what? Two years?

Phydeaux642
April 1, 2008, 08:47 PM
I'm considering getting a second light weight 9mm and was thinking about a Kahr PM9 although when I look at the price compared to my Kel-Tec P-11 I'm trying to figure out why is the Kahr TWICE the price of a Kel-Tec P-11?

The reliability is what keeps me from snapping one up. Haven't been able to figure out if they work or not. ~$500 and it might work or

~$250 and it might work. You decide.



Where are you guys finding the PM9 for $500? In my neck of the woods they run about $650 now.:what:

______________________

"Phydeaux, bad dog....no biscuit!"

jocko
April 1, 2008, 09:14 PM
PaID $575 FOR MINE out the door in the black DLC finish. Are they worth twice the price of the KT P11, no, IMO there are worth 3X the price. These are guns you can shoot till the cows come home. I have 9900 flawless rounds through my PM9, not one malfunction, goes bang every time. Super trigger system, all stainless slide, striker fired. alot of Glock tec hnology in the upper slide--ALOT. dovetailed sites, nite sites availalble, superior barrel, extremely accurate, simple in design, extremely well finished, at 14 ounces, you don't even know your carrying it and oh yes, did I say it goes bang every time.

romma
April 1, 2008, 09:40 PM
My PM9 Rocks! Plain and simple...

Dan-O
April 1, 2008, 10:48 PM
Yeah, I guess it has been out for a bit. Sorry, it was new to my market.

Here is a couple of pics. Range report to follow.

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/dantruesdale/100_2613.jpg

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/dantruesdale/100_2614.jpg

The Lone Haranguer
April 1, 2008, 11:14 PM
My PM9 (VC s/n prefix, purchased 3/06) functioned poorly at first - the slide actually sticking in mid-travel - and had to be sent back. They replaced the barrel and recoil spring - evidently there was some kind of fitting or dimensional problem - and it now functions well. I always recommend these to someone looking for a pocket-sized (in a large enough pocket) but still full-power pistol. I find it much easier and more pleasant to shoot than any lightweight snubnose revolver, and in fact no longer even own any such revolvers.

scurtis_34471
April 2, 2008, 12:03 AM
I just picked up a P9 Covert today. It has the slide and barrel of the P9 with the grip length of the PM9. I think it has been discontinued, as it is no longer on Kahr's website.

The gun shop said to give it a 350 round break-in. I will let you know how it goes.

ta4
April 2, 2008, 10:59 AM
The PM-9 is my favorite gun. It is accurate, reliable & easy to conceal.

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