Gun cleaning?

Was thinking today about putting up flyers for cleaning guns after and before deer hunting seasons. What is needed as far as FFL's?

I know this post I am making is off topic to the answer you want, but I have to ask, is there really a lot of people that have others clean their firearms for them?

I know this post I am making is off topic to the answer you want, but I have to ask, is there really a lot of people that have others clean their firearms for them?

Paying someone to clean your guns sounds pretty dumb. But when you pose your counterquestion, it actually makes more sense. How many people do you see paying someone else to wash their cars? How many people do you see paying someone else to change their oil? How many people do you see paying someone else to mow their lawn?

I remember one of the guys I know at the range helping a guy and his son clean a rifle. Apparently, the father doesn't own any sort of cleaning equipment (no rods, solvent, etc) and never cleaned that rifle in over 3 years.

I would think it depends on the type of cleaning that's being offered. For the simple field stripping and basic maintainence type stuff, I look forward to sitting out on my balcony and cleaning. Keeps the wife away. A radio, a glass of gin and tonic, Hoppes 9, CLP, and all is right with the world.

Now for a deep cleaning of all the internals and whatnot, that I wouldn't feel comfortable doing myself at this time and would most definately seek someone with more experience.

Thing is many people don't have any clue on how to clean their guns and if you offered the right price, I think there could be a market. I would have to be sure to market it right, as a way to keep your gun accurate. Cheaper to keep it clean than to have it blow up and all that.

Cleaning other people's guns for money... I wonder if that falls under the definition of a 'gunsmith'?

Here's a definition I pulled off the ATF website.

Gunsmith. A person who devotes time, attention, and labor to
engaging in such activity as a regular course of trade or business with
the principal objective of livelihood and profit, but such a term shall
not include a person who makes occasional repairs of firearms or who
occasionally fits special barrels, stocks, or trigger mechanisms to
firearms;

If so, wouldn't you need an FFL to receive or work on/clean other people's guns?

I wonder if cleaning would fall under the 'occassional repair' clause?

for people that only shoot their Glock once a year, it might even be more cost effective to pay someone to do it, rather than invest in equipment/space in their house.

Their is a liability though, if you clean their gun and it blows up (from a part not correctly placed to bad ammo), or they say you scratched it, it could come back to you. Far fetched, but overlooked thus far.

I believe repair shops dont have to log in their accusitions and call in their pick ups, but their may be state liscensing as it may be under the gunsmithing umbrella.

Just my thoughts.
Jesse

Cleaning other people's guns for money... I wonder if that falls under the definition of a 'gunsmith'? I would definately check with BATFE first, 'cause you never know what silly interpretation they might come up with. BUT, from the pure logic point of view, I think that it would be totally silly to be considered a gunsmith just to clean guns. Do the guys who work at a car wash need to be ASE mechanics? Do the guys at the laundromat have to be tailors? Just doesn't make sense to me.

As for paying someone to clean my guns? No way! I enjoy doing it too much. It is a form of relaxation. And unless the guy had some kind of business insurance and all of the normal gun shop accoutrements (namely a safe), am I gonna leave valuable property at his home/shop? Again, no way. Just more liability issues to think about, on top of what noresttill has already mentioned.

I believe you will find it is considered under gunsmithing by the BATF requiring a license from them. Then you must also keep a log as required under that license.

Liabilty is also a factor these days, making it difficult to provide the service you are considering . Cleaning is typically done as one of the jobs offered by a more complete gunsmithing service.

True story -- I used to work with a guy who had bought several guns from a lady friend after her husband died several years earlier. Among them were a Ruger Blackhawk .44mag and a Colt Python .357mag. It turns out he had never fired any of them. When I ask why, he said it was because he didn't know how to clean them and didn't want to dirty them up. So I dragged him to the range and dirtied up his guns then dragged him to my place for a few gun cleaning lessons.

I love a happy ending.

:)

I love shooting my SKS... but the Wolf Ammo I put through it makes it a true pain in the butt to clean.

Seriously, if I take an afternoon to clean my firearms, the majority of the time will be spent on the SKS, while the other four guns combined don't take as long.

If someone could name me a good price, I'd seriously consider letting some other poor schmuck spend an afternoon getting that beast clean.

I know this post I am making is off topic to the answer you want, but I have to ask, is there really a lot of people that have others clean their firearms for them?

Oh how I laughed when you asked this question (not laughing at you, but at the irony). Apparently in the northen Virginia area the answer to this question is "rather a lot".

Seems there are a few people in this area who make a tidy sum butchering the meat and cleaning the guns for the "great white hunters" who only want to have what I refer to as a "video game hunt" (I.E. go out, blast away, go home). :scrutiny:

While unemployed, my chiropractor swapped some office visits in return for cleaning his rather extensive collection of lever action rifles and some rather nice shotguns. He loves shooting, but didn't want to come to work with hands smelling of Hoppes #9.

Imagine my surprise when a week later he ALSO gave me $150 CASH.

My kind of Doctor, to put it mildly.

He also recomended I go ask at the local hunting preserve (where all the rich Doctors/Lawyers/Politicians go to shoot) and ask at the shotgun rental place (guides provide shotguns for vistors quite often) about cleaning them for a fee. I never did, due to another job coming up, but he insists it would be a lucrative practice.

I hope we're not in the same neck of the woods cause I'm gonna give this a try. I am waiting on BATFE's answer on the legal aspect.

"Cleaning" has nothing whatsoever to do with "repairs". If such was the case, anyone running a cash wash would have to be a qualified mechanic and have a business license so orientated.

However, the BATF is a law unto it's self, and "cleaning" can (like so much else in current gov terms lately) mean " ... anything we want it to mean".

For those that may scoff at the idea; take a handgun or long gun down to the local 'smith and see how much they charge for "cleaning" per gun ;)

--------------------------------------------

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One gunshop in my area has a standard fee for cleaning rifles or shotguns, another for handguns. I believe it's mostly used by people who need the thing detail-stripped and cleaned and don't feel comfortable taking their firearms down to that point.

Great idea! What do you do when 173 people all want their Ruger Mark (II, III) cleaned by the weekend??? :D :D :D

its a nice idea, but I'll clean my own guns. I think a lot of other gun owners will too, if you are not willing to clean 1 hunting rifle what good are you, and if you have kids...make them do it.


Great idea! What do you do when 173 people all want their Ruger Mark (II, III) cleaned by the weekend???

Oh that is sooo not cool, it takes me a damn hour and half to strip that thing down and clean it, getting every little nook and cranny. And dont even get me started on reassembly of the trigger or the firing mechanisms.

And dont even get me started on reassembly of the trigger or the firing mechanisms.

Oho! Good luck with Part No. 38 :cuss: :banghead: :cuss: :banghead: --- the Ever Popular Magazine Disconnect :what: :confused: :fire:

The III was the first gun that taught me to take out the tripod and hi-res Nikon and shoot :D everything in sight during disassembly. I've started to consider the manual as a sort of Cult Comic Book ;) . I swear that it's designed to trap you.

(The online exploded view is STILL incorrect. :barf: )

Anyone else nearly shear the magazine feed lips off during the first takedown? :cuss: I mean, in the middle of the maag-in, mag-out cha-cha, I sat back and thought, Gee, what could be making this thing stick even tighter than the original .006" :D force-fit?

Then there's the Ruger Rifle Drill --- the elegant spinning, whirling reorientation of it all while the Spring Housing is refitted. (Note that this is rarely a "Silent Drill" :cuss: :cuss: :cuss: ...

Finally, one decides to tune the trigger. (There is no Smiley symbol adequate to for this.) Getting all of those parts simultaneously aligned --- while referring to The Comic Book) was even more amusing for my fiancee. :eek: The dear, dear lady sat through the entire thing with me, ocassionally hunting down and fetching the odd flying spring.

Once I'd evolved and developed five additional prehensile appendages, the physical manipulations became feasible. Leaving me with trying the Multiple Possibilities of Part Number 38 :banghead: , finally just visualizing what it was supposed to be doing and reassembling it that way.

:evil: Note well this sign! It is the sign of Ruger and their Evil Disciple Volquartsen ;) . Ruger says, "Here, this is how it goes (hahahahaha!), and Volquartsen says, "Yeah, check the manual (hohohohoho!).

Now, back to the cleaning idea:rolleyes: . Doing a full strip of this thing for someone else would have to be considered charity, not commerce.

Currently, I have an ATN compact Red Dot on this machine. It is set at 50 feet, and (with the proper load (darn all of you who thrive on CCI Standard!:mad: )) can punch a single hole, from session to session. :) Until, that is, there comes ...

The Time for the Mallet. :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

This is where we separate reality from the return-to-zero.:neener: After POUNDING the assembly apart :what: , the assembly is pounded back together :what: . All of which is great excuse for going back to the range and firing another box or two to re-zero. (I have learned that Repeat-to-Zero does not, in fact, incluse POUNDING as a recognized procedure.)

I showed the takedown/reassmbly to a non-shooting friend one day, telling him that proper handling included maintenance. :cool: He thought I was insane ... which we need not debate here :uhoh: . I explained it all.

Now, doing the Car Wash with a bag o' 1911s would settle you down --- even Series 90s.:D

PS
One of my dealers admitted that he's never done a full strip of a III. The owner didn't want him taking the time --- and then quitting.

Hey --- it's not that bad. It just requires some Moments of Zen ... and a mallet.

I have a buddy that INSISTS on taking his guns to the 'smith to have them cleaned.

When I asked why, I was amazed......

The 'smith told him most of the firearms damage he had seen was from people cleaning their guns too much. That he only needed to clean his guns once a year and the most people werent smart enought to field strip a 1911 for cleaning so just bring them to him.

So once a year my buddy loads his guns up and takes them in for the yearly cleaning. :banghead:

Hes impressed beyond belief that I can clean all my guns myself......Im like gun god as far as hes concerned.

Long ago I had a girlfriend who worked in a jewelry store. She had to clean all the metal watchbands/bracelets that came in. :barf:

After hearing what some of that was like, I can only imagine what cleaning someone else's gun might be like.:eek:

Anyone else nearly shear the magazine feed lips off during the first takedown? I mean, in the middle of the maag-in, mag-out cha-cha, I sat back and thought, Gee, what could be making this thing stick even tighter than the original .006" force-fit?

I had my Ruger MK III for a VERY short time before I said "screw the warranty" and ground that god*@mn magazine safety off.

It's amazing how much faster and easier the takedown/re-assembly got after that.

I wonder if I should post the procedure.

Might be a good idea to just show the parts. Wouldn't want any :evil: lawyerly:evil: types getting annoyed.

Well, BATFE's reply finally came. It is pasted below in its entirety.
To follow-up on your question to the ATF Columbus mailbox, regarding gun cleaning and gunsmithing activity.



If you limit your activity solely to cleaning, you do not need a federal firearm license. If you do anything other than cleaning, such as adjusting sights, minor refinishing, minor repairs, etc. you need to obtain a type 01 dealer license which will allow you to operate as a gunsmith.



If you do decide to apply for a FFL license, please contact our distribution center at 703-455-7801 to request an application packet be mailed to you. Also, depending on what gunsmithing activity you may decide to do, you can incur federal excise tax. If you would like to read more about the potential for that you might want to visit the Tax and Trade Bureau web site (this is the federal agency that collects the excise taxes for firearms and ammunition). Their web address is www.ttb.gov . If you click on the homepage tab for Firearms and Ammunition and scroll down there is a link for gunsmith info.



Hopefully this has answered your question to your satisfaction. Please do not hesitate to contact me if you need additional information. Again thanks for contacting us. I will put a hard copy of this e-mail into the mail for you as you have requested.



Marilynn Trombatore

IO Investigator/Victim Witness Coordinator

Columbus FD

I'll bet there is a big market for this. Most gun manuals don't tell you half of what they should and have multiple warnings in big bold print about improper lubrication.

I was scared senseless the first time I shot a gun that I had just cleaned. Half expected it to blow up in my face. If it wasn't for helpful articles I read on THR and other forums I probably would have hired someone.

Not to mention the fact that I work a lot and when I am home I prefer spending time with my daughter over cleaning guns. I'm sure there are others in this boat as well.