Just bought a Smith & Wesson Pre-Model 10 two inch


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The Real Hawkeye
November 14, 2006, 05:09 PM
Bueing is thin, but most is still there, and there are a few superficial rust spots here and there, but it appears functionally perfect. Looking forward to shooting it. Only paid $210 out the door for it, so not a huge investment for a nice gun with character that you can actually shoot and keep loaded for defense. Bore and cylinders seem in good shape. Action is smooth as glass, and single actions your typical Smith & Wesson crisp light break. I think I got a good deal. Anyone know the value of it? Serial number is S 9485XX.

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ugaarguy
November 14, 2006, 05:31 PM
Hawkeye,
The S prefix indicates it was made post WWII and before '49 or '50 if I remember correctly. From the pic it also appears to have a finely checkered hammer. If so, you've got a transitional model M&P. The transitional models had the much desired pre-war long DA trigger mechanism combined with all the post war improved internal safeties and improved metallurgy. The short bbls are also quite rare on these pistols. I have a transitional 5" Bbl M&P that I paid about the same for. These are great guns that are steadily rising in value. You did very well for $210. That's also a great picture you took of your beautiful new revolver. Standby and I'm sure Old Fuff or Xavier breath will give you much more detailed info.

SaxonPig
November 14, 2006, 05:39 PM
I think the date would be 1946 or 47. The S prefix was only used for 2-3 years right after WW II on the K frames. The S continued on the N frames until 1970.

Is the address on the right side of the frame in one line? That's a sign of an early model. The four line address came afterwards.

These transitional guns have collector interest in really good shape but your's is maybe a little rough to interest the serious collectors. The 2" barrel models are much less common than the longer ones. Price was right on this. I recently bought a pair of 1949 M&Ps for $210 and $200 and in case you're wondering IMO factory +P ammo would not harm this gun at all in any way. I shoot +P and worse (my own hot loads) through pre-model marked K frames all the time without incident.

The Real Hawkeye
November 14, 2006, 06:02 PM
Is the address on the right side of the frame in one line? That's a sign of an early model. The four line address came afterwards.The only thing on the right side of the frame is one line that says "MADE IN USA," and then left of that, where the cylinder release corresponds to the other side, there's the familiar S & W Trade Mark logo.

The Real Hawkeye
November 14, 2006, 06:04 PM
One thing I really like about it is the round front sight. Reminds me of my new Smith and Wesson retro revolver in .45 ACP with moon clips.

Shear_stress
November 14, 2006, 06:05 PM
Great find! Love those long-action K-frames.

The Real Hawkeye
November 14, 2006, 08:35 PM
Here's another picture of it next to an antique Case pocket knife and a picture of my grandfather when he was a young man. Can't you just imagine him with this snubbie in his coat pocket?

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=47898&d=1163554512

Gordon
November 14, 2006, 08:36 PM
That is a nice gun and perfectly configured IMHO with the grip adapter on OEM Diamond stocks.:)

The Real Hawkeye
November 14, 2006, 08:43 PM
That is a nice gun and perfectly configured IMHO with the grip adapter on OEM Diamond stocks.Thanks, Gordon, I'm pretty happy with the purchase. What's OEM?

XavierBreath
November 14, 2006, 08:51 PM
Hawkeye, I can't begin to tell you how jealous I am! I have been looking for that gun for quite some time. You have a transitional snubbie with the original grips. I would date it 1947, but only Roy Jinks can say for certain. It has the early long throw lockwork, and the half moon front sight, but the later frame.

If you compare the top arch of your magna grips with a more modern magna, you will notice a sharper edge. That is how I know the grips are at least period, there will be a serial number stamped inside one of them to confirm they are original. These are known as transitional grips (http://xavierthoughts.blogspot.com/2005/12/separating-diamond-magnas.html) and they are correct for your gun. The Tyler T just makes it that much better.

$210 was a good deal. A really motivated collector might pay $300 for your gun, perhaps more, but I would wager it's fair market price to be around $250, maybe a bit more. On guns like this, there is not much data to look at trends, so you really have to say they are worth what someone is willing to pay. I can say that for $210, I would have bought it too. Quickly.

Old Fuff
November 14, 2006, 08:52 PM
Such trash...:evil:

Either you, or someone else who is qualified, should detail strip the gun and clean out the old varnish and gunk on the insides. Then substitute a model 10 mainspring (which is lighter) then the one that's in it. Lubricate and reassemble. I would expect a double-action trigger that could make a Python lover cry... :D

Now here you have a snubby that you can hit with. Cowboy 158 grain loads are inexpensive and will likely shoot to the point of aim.

Have fun... :D

The Real Hawkeye
November 14, 2006, 08:54 PM
Thanks, Xaviar. You've made what was already a great day, even better. Always nice to hear stuff like that from someone who knows and appreciates these things. :)

Old Fuff
November 14, 2006, 08:56 PM
X Breath:

I can say that for $210, I would have bought it too. Quickly.
Not if I got there first... :neener: :evil:

The Real Hawkeye
November 14, 2006, 08:57 PM
Thanks, Old Fuff. Once again, a great day made better. I will do what you suggest.

The Real Hawkeye
November 14, 2006, 09:07 PM
That is how I know the grips are at least period, there will be a serial number stamped inside one of them to confirm they are original.Guess what? The grips are original. The inside grip panel has the same serial number as the revolver. Cool. :D Considering how old the gun is, that's unusual. Usually they have some aftermarket grips on them by now.

The Real Hawkeye
November 14, 2006, 09:10 PM
Either you, or someone else who is qualified, should detail strip the gun and clean out the old varnish and gunk on the insides. Then substitute a model 10 mainspring (which is lighter) then the one that's in it. Lubricate and reassemble. I would expect a double-action trigger that could make a Python lover cry... Could Cylinder and Slide be trusted to do this work, or would you recommend someone else?

XavierBreath
November 14, 2006, 09:14 PM
Cylinder & Slide could certainly handle the job. Just make sure they know when to stop!

Grant Cunningham is another person who could do it.

I would not reblue this revolver. It has loads and loads of character.

ugaarguy
November 14, 2006, 09:22 PM
Not if I got there first...:neener: :evil:
Hrmm, it seems I may have to get a Taser to humanely incapacitate these older gentlemen while I get there to buy it ;) . Xavier, hiding out in the bayou with his horde of M&Ps, always seeking more; and The Fuff, always growing his desert cave horde of them. Poor wittle me, trying to establish a horde of them for myself. :neener:

Old Fuff
November 14, 2006, 11:48 PM
You can't have a horde.... you aint old enough. :neener:

Could Cylinder and Slide be trusted to do this work, or would you recommend someone else?

Either Grant or C&S could do the work, but Grant's turn-around time might be faster. So far as cleaning the innards up, you could do it yourself. Buy a copy of Jerry Kuhnhausen's book, The S&W Revolver - A Shop Manual,and a set of screwdrivers ground to fit S&W revolvers (Both are available from Brownells at www.brownells.com). On the other hand if you want the action tuned up as well Grant's your man.

I can do the work too... but it will take about 80 years before you get it back. :evil:

The Real Hawkeye
November 15, 2006, 12:20 AM
Old Fuff, found the screw driver set, but not the book. You sure that name's spelled right?

Also, any reason not to have it polished and reblued while I'm at it? Not like it's finish is in great condition for collector value.

Old Fuff
November 15, 2006, 12:49 AM
No, I spelled it right (which is unusual)...

Try Brownells stock number 924-100-001

Also rebound slide spring tool, #080-666-000

I wouldn't reblue it right now. Once you do you won't want to use the gun because you might mark it up. Wear off some more finish, and then think about getting it reblued.

Even in its present condition, collectors would be interested because it's a hard variant to find. And although it's a bit big, you'll find that it's the best shooting snubby going. Others are smaller or lighter, but that ol' M&P will put the shots where they are supposed to go, and do it quickly. :cool:

Gordon
November 15, 2006, 01:18 AM
OEM = Original Equiptment (of ) Manufacturer
Don't reblue it - enjoy it ! It belongs with the gramps picture!
Don't modify it externally
Do detail strip ,degunk and lube and a new mainspring and rebound spring from Wolffe would be good, but keep the old ones! NO honing please!:eek:

XavierBreath
November 15, 2006, 06:21 AM
Hawkeye, I agree with Fuff. You can, with a minimum of mechanical expertise, accomplish this task.

There are a couple of things you should do/know.

1. Always use the correct screwdriver. Always. The forward screw, under the cylinder releases the yoke. Once it is out, swing out the cylinder, and pull the yoke from the frame and cylinder at the same time while allowing the cylinder to fall into your palm.

2. Do not pry off the sideplate. Remove the screws, flip over the gun, cradle it in your palm, and tap the grip frame with a small brass hammer until the harmonic vibrations cause it to fall free into your hand.

3. Take a photo. Take your own picture, just in case the one I supplied here is a bit incorrect. This was a time of transition for S&W. Here is a pic of what you will likely find inside.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=47914&stc=1&d=1163589167

Play with the mechanism a bit before you remove anything. See how it works. Then loosen the mainspring tension screw in the grip, remove the mainspring, and remove the hammer and trigger as complete assemblies. Be careful that the DA sear does not fall out of the hammer. For a first time disassembly of a gun, I like to disassemble in a box to prevent loss of small parts.

Once inside, simply clean up the parts with a cleaner such as gun scrubber or brake cleaner. Allow them to sit and disolve the varnish. Reassemble with BreakFree or Ballistol on the studs as a lubricant. I like a dab of Tetra grease on my sear.

Do NOT file anything. Do NOT stone anything.

Reassemble it the way it came apart.

Many specialized tools such as the one for the rebound spring can be made from small screwdrivers.

When putting on the sideplate, press it into place first. Do not use the screws to make it go into place.

Did I forget anything Fuff?

Old Fuff
November 15, 2006, 09:38 AM
No, and your picture is fine. As I understand it he plans to buy a copy of The S & W Revolver - A Shop Manual, which will walk he through the process with illustrations. Also a set of screwdrivers. He should be able to disassemble, clean, lubricate, and put the revolver back together. If he does anything else we'll cut off his fingers. Even worse we'll remind him that finding parts for this particular version can be difficult and is usually expensive. :eek:

Hutch
November 15, 2006, 09:45 AM
If I had that revolver, and he had a feather in his ear...

We'd both be tickled!

The Real Hawkeye
November 15, 2006, 10:18 AM
Ok, thanks guys. I just put the order together at Brownell's, but I will wait till after Thanksgiving to place the order, since I'm going out of town for Thanksgiving week and don't want it sitting at my front door for days on end while I'm away. I will try to do the cleaning and lubing job myself. Seems doable.

Anyway, here's what I will order:

924-100-001 KUHNHAUSEN S&W REVOLVER SHOP MANUAL 1 $22.95
080-666-000 S & W REBOUND SLIDE SPRING TOOL 1 $19.97
080-087-002 BITS ONLY FOR S&W REV COMBO SET 1 $7.65

That correct?

PS Thanks for all the assistance Old Fuff, Xaviar, and all.

One more question, though. There are spots of surface rust scattered around. Is it possible to remove this while not removing the blueing? Thanks.

slick6
December 15, 2009, 09:21 PM
Here's a photo of my post war 2" M&P that I got lettered by S&W. The serial number of this gun is S844168. It was shipped on October 28, 1946-so, I think this might help you to more accurately figure out when your M&P was shipped. Although, I think that Xavier pretty much nailed it! Congratulations on finding that beautiful M&P!:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v631/shootit/P1010679.jpg

ArchAngelCD
December 16, 2009, 02:34 AM
Hawkeye,
If you do decide to re-blue that revolver in the future please send it to S&W to have the work done. If they do it it's really no being re-blued because they are the original manufacturer. (and it will look as it did when it was originally sold)

BUT, I agree with the others, that revolver should be left as is. There is so much character to it right now it would be a shame to change it...

madcratebuilder
December 16, 2009, 08:41 AM
That was a very good buy. I would love to find that revolver even at a higher price. hint hint

Is it a 2" or a 2 1/8" barrel?

Old Fuff
December 16, 2009, 09:07 AM
Older Smith & Wesson K-frame snubbies had 2" barrels, or at least they were so cataloged. Same with Colt. But since barrels were individually fitted, and the front sight was expected to come up at 12 o'clock the exact length might be a bit shorter. Longer would be unusual.

Husker_Fan
December 16, 2009, 09:45 AM
Old thread, but given my love of these transitional models, I don't mind a bit. Beautiful.

coleslaw
December 16, 2009, 08:13 PM
Greetings. I guess today was my lucky day. Stopped by my regular gun shop, just to say hello. They had something I "just may be interested in". They didn't know exactly what it was, neither did I. But, I've developed an interest in old revolvers and I had to buy it. A quick phone call to Smith & Wesson and some more searching and I end up here. It is a 2" pre-Model 10, dated late 1950-early 1951. It has some marks on the grips and the blue is thin in spots from being carried, but there is barely a ring on the cylinder and the bore is beautiful. It was brought to the shop by an old guy who had it handed down from his dad years ago. This fellow said he had fired one round out of it in all the years he had it. I believe it. His dad was a policeman who carried it for years. And to think, I almost didn't stop there today.

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