I Suffer From Receiver Ring. Do you Know The Cure?


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ed7.62
November 16, 2006, 02:04 PM
Can anyone Help?

Got a Winchester 1886 UL in 45-70.

I have been a re loader for years and have never had a problem like this.

The barrel is developing a ring, or cut that is making the cases expand in to. Though this only causes a small ridge in the case about 3/4 inch from the top of the case, it is making case ejection difficult.

I load very light as we have no bear in the UK, so targets are most excitement that we can hope for.

I only ever load one at a time (dropping in the top), and use a 405-500gr lead RN-FP. The loading is IMR 4198 28gr or XMP 5744 23gr for 500gr. This is load data for classic loading that is well under the cup pressure for my rifle. Bullets are seated clear of the rifling.

There are no marks with the rifled part of the barrel, but as I say in the smooth receiver section. I do not wish to do any damage to my 1886 so have stop shooting it, which is a real pain as I have 5 shot groups touching at 100m with iron sights.
Oh yes have tried moly coat with no lube in grooves, as the ring seems to be at the same place as one of the bullet grooves, and someone said that I could be getting "Hydraulicing" of the lube what ever that is.

Any ideas would be welcome. Thanks Ed.

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db_tanker
November 16, 2006, 02:54 PM
In a case like this...new barrel is the only cure.

Vern Humphrey
November 16, 2006, 02:59 PM
You have a bulged chamber, probably caused by loads that are too light. What happens is the powder fills less than half the case. The primer flashes over the powder and drives the bullet into the rifling -- and an instant later the main charge fires, and the bullet lodged in the rifling acts like an obstruction in the bore.

Bulges can also occur if using the wrong "filler" material -- such as corn meal -- in reduced charges. The filler becomes compressed and acts like a bore obstruiction.

The cure isn't easy -- rebarrel the rifle. I recommend not going below the recommended minimum or starting loads in a standard reloading manual in the future.

QuarterBoreGunner
November 16, 2006, 03:17 PM
You have a bulged chamber, probably caused by loads that are too light. What happens is the powder fills less than half the case. The primer flashes over the powder and drives the bullet into the rifling -- and an instant later the main charge fires, and the bullet lodged in the rifling acts like an obstruction in the bore.

Wow. I've never heard of this (which means nothing). I've heard of a 'kaboom' phenomenon with ultra light loads but not this obstruction/ring problem.
Amazing.

Vern Humphrey
November 16, 2006, 03:33 PM
Wow. I've never heard of this (which means nothing). I've heard of a 'kaboom' phenomenon with ultra light loads but not this obstruction/ring problem.
Amazing.

As you can see, it's the same mechanism that produces "kabooms" but at a lower pressure. It's not at all uncommon -- and certain calibers are quite subject to it -- for example, low pressure .32-20 pistol loads.

Jim Watson
November 16, 2006, 04:26 PM
Have you been using a case filler? Or a wad over the powder? Those are the usual causes.

Your 5744 load is slightly ABOVE the Trapdoor range in Accurate Arms data, but below "standard" .45-70 loads, so that is not likely the problem.

Your 4198 load is near the HIGH end of Lyman 47th data for a 420 gr cast bullet in a Trapdoor. For some reason they do not show anything for the 500 grain bullet in its original home.

So I don't know if those loads meet Vern's criteria of "too light" loads and pressure wave amplification. That phenomenon does not explain the location of the ring, either. I haven't heard of Hydraulicing as a cause before.

I agree, though. Your barrel is ruined.
I note that FFg will not give you such problems.

Vern Humphrey
November 16, 2006, 04:31 PM
There's a simple test. Charge a case and put celiophane tape across the case mouth. Hold the case horizontally and shake it a little. Then look in the case mouth. Can you see the flash hole? If so, you may have a problem with that load.

qajaq59
November 16, 2006, 07:45 PM
Hmmmm, now I'm wondering if that would happen with cast bullets and standard loads of Unique in say a 30-30 case? There isn't a whole lot of powder in there when using Unique.

Opinions?

ed7.62
November 16, 2006, 08:50 PM
Checked the data that I have and for the weight of bullets they are all starting loads. Oh do not use filler, but a felt wad over the powder for even burn. The barrel has not bulged externaly, just this darn cut mark on the inside. I have had a reply from a gun smith today who feels that the whole case should be re-sized each time rather that neck size as this allows the whole case to expand evenly putting less pressure on the neck on the case.

New barrel: unfortunately Winchester will not and do not export to the UK so looks like I will be hanging this one on the wall.

Thanks for the response though guys, Happy shooting. Ed.

Critter183
November 16, 2006, 09:08 PM
Is it illegal for a friend in the USA to send you a barrel as a gift?

Ol` Joe
November 16, 2006, 09:23 PM
Ask your smith if he will put a aftermarket barrel on or can recommend one that will. Lother Walther and other European manufactures barrels likely can be turned, threaded and chambered for your rifle. You don`t have to stay with a Winchester barrel to keep it going.

ribbonstone
November 16, 2006, 10:31 PM
Does sound like a rung barrel.

Reguradless of how it got there, the only cure is a new barrel.

It is interresting that the ring is located at the lube groove. The only rung barrels I've got a good first hand look at had the ring at the base of the seated bullet (or way down the barrel from shooting out an obstruction...but suspect the chamber rings are from the same physical process).

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