What about HK?


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JLStorm
November 17, 2006, 08:02 AM
I was just thinking to myself last night as I was cleaning my HK USP FS LEM which I am simply in love with, that I dont seem to hear much about HK anymore, but maybe its just me? I mean I always hear about Glocks, and Sigs are getting more state and government contracts everyday it seems, but HK just seems to be a gun that people think is great, but doesnt seem to be much going on in the way of contracts or bulk purchase agreements. I mean sure the mp5 series is always a winner as well as a few of their other small autos and "assault" weapons, but what about their spectacular handguns, they are around the same price as the sigs, so what about HK??? :confused:

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damyankee
November 17, 2006, 08:35 AM
In the auto-loaders forum there was a thread about the USP .40f, some LE was talking about how his department was issuing the 9mm USP. I'm pretty sure there are other departments too :) Also, one of my good friends was a contractor in Iraq/Afghan (he's my fourth friend to visit that wonderful area of the world) when things were just gettin underway and he was at a PX and saw two guys from some covert group, both had USPs on their sides.

mete
November 17, 2006, 10:57 AM
They make very fine guns ! But they have some strange marketing ideas ! They are bought by many who are serious about guns and don't care if HKs don't have the 'cool' facter. We have our HKs and don't care about how popular Glocks or SIGs are !

psyopspec
November 17, 2006, 12:11 PM
They are indeed fine weapons, but there's a financial downside to owning one. After bearing the initial cost, parts for HKs tend to be rarer than other brands (at least around here) and somewhat more expensive. I've heard their customer service is hit and miss as well.

Outlaws
November 17, 2006, 12:18 PM
HK will supply the government and only the government when the revolution comes. If they want governemnt contracts and government contracts only, then thats fine with me, but I won't be buying the slim pickings they offer to civilans just because they are tacticool.

gudel
November 17, 2006, 12:18 PM
It's kind of hard to bitch if your gun works right out of the box with 0 problems.


How many posts do you see about HK needs extractor adjustments?
How many posts do you see about HK needs a special magazine tweaking?
How many posts do you see if HK needs to be broken in?
How many posts do you see about HK jamming like mad? :D
How about rusting? ;)


I like Glocks, as for Sig, you better have a bucket of grease, and the damn BBB number handy.
Yes the checkering are sharp, wear gloves or grow a pair, goddamn most of you are guys here!

damyankee
November 17, 2006, 01:09 PM
+1 on gudel's post. I bought my .40f cuz I read up on HK and had shot the USP .45f before. Only about 5k rounds through it, NO problems what-so-ever :D That's with half of those through a drop in replacement barrel from jarvis.

RevolvingCylinder
November 17, 2006, 01:11 PM
People don't like to give money to a company that treats them like crap and thinks low of them.

pawncop
November 17, 2006, 03:27 PM
Have recently joined the H&K family by obtaining a P7M8. Lord help me I do love this handgun. I am not a big fan of the 9mm cartridge but this gun just plain ROCKS!! Smooth as glass, deadly accurate(it shoots far better than I do) and joy to carry. Am trying to locate a decent holster for off duty carry.

Kontiki
November 17, 2006, 03:42 PM
I don't know about the entire Border Patrol, but the units station here in San Diego all carry a USP Compact in .40. Next year sometime they will all be switching to the P2000 in 9mm. I'm unsure if they will change the caliber to 9 or not, I don't think it's a great plan if they do and neither do many of the BP guys I know.

Bentonville
November 17, 2006, 06:43 PM
Pawncop, about finding a holster for the P7M8; Try going to HKPRO.com and asking..or go to Parkcities.com which is a place strictly devoted to the cult of the P7. Ask there and you shall receive. http://www.parkcitiestactical.com/
I own several flavors of HKs and believe me, customer service with HK since the move to Trussville, Ala. is top-notch.

Maui19
November 17, 2006, 07:12 PM
People don't like to give money to a company that treats them like crap and thinks low of them.

You mean like Mossberg?

BlkHawk73
November 17, 2006, 08:57 PM
Bought my first HK the day the Brady Bill was signed. Hadn't really heard of them before then but what little I had was nothing but very good. That one led to another, and another, etc. Up to 6 or 7 now and will likely grab a few more next year as well. Seeing as I'm one to not buy what's "cool" but rather spend good money for a product I know is of high quality, that says a litle bit about thier stuff. Thousands of rounds and no issues with any of my Hk's. have had very positive experiences with thier customer service as well.

10-Ring
November 17, 2006, 10:16 PM
Go check out the hard core guys on www.hkpro.com There is stuff going on all the time ;)
Tough really when a gun all you have to say is "Mine just keep working and putting rounds exactly where I want!" :D

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r208/10-Ring/P1020711.jpg

JLStorm
November 17, 2006, 11:18 PM
True...I guess there really isnt anything to talk about when things always work and there is little debate on the issue. I was just thinking that I see lots of posts on Glocks, but most of those threads are on the comparison between the Glock and some other brand. I dont see HK compared to much. I do love mine...its the only gun I have ever had that i wouldnt think tiwce about chosoing my HK as the gun to defend my life with.

DFW1911
November 17, 2006, 11:59 PM
I think they're great guns and I *wish* they felt right in my hand, but they don't...regardless of model :banghead:

That doesn't mean I don't own a few, though :) I've never had any sort of problem with any of them and would highly recommend HK.

Have fun!

DFW1911

GroovedG19
November 18, 2006, 01:29 AM
My HK USP 45 fullsize is FANTASTIC!
Superb accuracy and Zero malfunctions.
I predict more HK's in my future.

Dionysusigma
November 18, 2006, 03:46 AM
Were it not for the price, I'd pick up a P2000. I like the idea of a pistol that is completely ambidextrous.

http://www.hkpro.com/p2000dwj1.jpg


And if I won the lottery, a USP Expert for competition. :)

http://www.hkpro.com/uspexpertrt.jpg

Autolycus
November 18, 2006, 05:17 AM
I own a P2000 and a P2000sk. I want more HKs. I cannot wait for the P30 and the HK45.

HK is easily my favorite maker.

copper4262
November 18, 2006, 06:53 AM
The H&K is by far the best brand I have ever purchased. I was stuck on Sigs for several years. I had a friend who kepy bugging me to try his H&K's and I kept turning him down. Then when I was looking to upgrade my duty weapon from the 9mm to a .40 I did some shopping. I picked up a USP .40 and fell in love instantly. It is the first gun I bought without ever shooting one first - It was the best HG purchase I ever made. Accurate and balanced. I simply love the work that H&K does. I have purchased two more since then and am still impressed. You get what you pay for - by all means its true with the H&K line. I can't wait for their new .45 - Sadly I recently switched jobs and my new dept requires we carry the Glock - its ok but its no H&K - there just isn't anything better then my USP!!!!!

Ares45
November 19, 2006, 09:14 PM
I love mine. All 5 of them. The only handgun I've bought in the last 10 years that wasn't an HK was a S&W 340, only because my USPc40 won't fit in my pocket.

I've had 3 dealings with HK customer service in the last 5-6 years. One replaced recoil spring assy, one match trigger installed, one LEM conversion. Every instance was satisfactory.

Since 1998 I've shot over 20,000 rounds thru my USP45 without a single weapon related stoppage.

loki.fish
November 19, 2006, 10:52 PM
I've got a USP .45 full size and love it. Accurate, reliable, eats everything I've put in it. Got a good deal on it when I bought it, so can't complain too much about price...though it was still a bit higher than an average priced gun, it was well worth it. I'd own more, but they're just so expensive and I'm a bit on the tight side with my money :P

BlkHawk73
November 20, 2006, 05:49 PM
Up to 7 here and looks like proberly two more being added next year. More if I find a really good deal on a P7K3 or P7M10.;)

Autolycus
November 21, 2006, 01:51 AM
I am eagerly awaiting the P30 and the HK 45.

I think HK is the worlds greatest firearm manufacturer.

SteveS
November 21, 2006, 09:18 AM
I like Glocks, as for Sig, you better have a bucket of grease, and the damn BBB number handy.


Is this personal experience, or are you just spouting off? Wow, never had a problem with any of the sigs I have owned.

The HK's I have owned were fine guns, but I am somewhat turned off by their lack of interest in the civilian market when it comes to rifles, especially when compared to FN or Sig.

threefeathers
November 21, 2006, 11:40 AM
i have 2 of them and they fire every time the trigger is pulled. I currently carry a Sig 229 but will switch to a p2000 in 9mm as soon as Wild Bill sends my IWB holster.

Zerstoerer
November 22, 2006, 08:57 PM
Think of HK as the industrial strength, no nonsense gun manufacturer.
They have so many Government/Military/Police contracts that they can afford to treat us civilian shooters as second class.
The average, ignorant american has not even heard of them.

Bu the way, it is HK for Heckler und Koch not H&K, like in S&W.
Not H and K, just HK.

DAVE RICHARDS
November 22, 2006, 10:40 PM
I didn't read all the threads so if this is old news sorry. H&K was co-winner with Sig to supply the department of Homeland Defense with pistols. A hugh contract. In line with that an Airlines pilot that is a Flight Deck Officer at my range said they were trained on H&K .40 caliber USP's. That's what they may carry. Before it was cancelled it looked like the new .45 U.S. service pistol was going to be an H&K. Lots of LEO's are issued H&K's. On top of the German police and othersthey are not hurting for contracts.

hankdatank1362
November 25, 2006, 10:22 PM
If I could afford a HK, I would have a USP or a P2000, that P3000 just doesn't do it for me. Oh, a MK. 23 would be cool.

But I can't afford them, so I bought a Taurus PT 24/7, the poor man's HK.

hnk45acp
November 25, 2006, 10:43 PM
http://img435.imageshack.us/img435/6245/dscn1420bq1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

My HK USP Expert is accurate & reliable. It just feels like a tank. Could be better ergonomically but other than that, great overall.

dam8
November 25, 2006, 11:27 PM
My first pistol was an HK, and to date is still a favorite. Since...I've purchased 4 more HKs. I've never had a problem with spending a bit more for a specific gun, especially for quality. As HK says... in a world of compromise some don't.

LiquidTension
November 26, 2006, 04:41 PM
My USP9f has been flawless. Someday I hope to pick up a P7, maybe a Tactical.

NeverAgain26
November 26, 2006, 09:08 PM
Love my USP 45C and am only waiting for a civilian version of their AR to come out (I think it's the XM8?). My AR-10 needs a playmate.

Saul Levy

zinj
November 26, 2006, 09:42 PM
Bu the way, it is HK for Heckler und Koch not H&K, like in S&W.
Not H and K, just HK.

Uh, "und" is German for and.

http://www.hecklerkoch-usa.com/
Note the page title in your browser:
"Heckler & Koch Inc"

BlkHawk73
November 27, 2006, 05:42 PM
waiting for a civilian version of their AR to come out (I think it's the XM8?).

That would be the 416 (.223) and 417 (.308) I wouldn't hold your breath waiting. ;)

Highland Ranger
November 27, 2006, 05:48 PM
I have one of the original 40's from the early 90's - still going strong.

Also have a 45 USP Expert - but it doesn't look like the one pcitured above - what's that thing hanging off the frame?

Very happy with both and would buy a P7 if I could find one . . . . .

Correia
November 27, 2006, 06:11 PM
I'm going to be odd man out here. I don't really like H&K much. (HK, whatever) :rolleyes:

Their customer service sucks. And they treat the civillian market like a battered wife that keeps coming back for more.

For each of their teutonically superior guns, I have something else that costs a whole lot less, and works better, and has ergonomics designed for humans.

USP: Overpriced pig of a gun. $800 for a gun that should cost $500. Square bar in a round hole always leads to a great trigger pull. Grip on the .45 makes a Para feel svelte.

They are decently reliable, but so is a Makarov. Only Maks tend to have a better trigger. :p

P2000: Can't say. Haven't used one. But for the money, I hope it shoots better than a USP.

G3: Vastly overated rifle. It is interesting how one cheap stamped sheet metal gun is berated as a cheap commie gun, but the G3 is the pinnicle of absolute teutonic engineering?

Bad trigger. Bad ergos. Hard to use charging handle. A good whack on the receiver can cause the sheet metal to bend. Not as reliable as most people make them out to be.

The H&K versions are absurdly expensive, because they despise the civillian market. I've had a couple. Never again. If I feel the need, I'll get a JLD or a Vector.

And the collapsible stock is like getting hit in the face with a piece of rebar. Germans must be tougher than we are.

MP5: Vastly overated subgun. I have two. Reliability isn't the be all end all of gundom like is portrayed in magazines. They still break, and they still malfunction. Trigger sucks. Ergonomics suck. I have gorilla thumbs, which means that it is only a struggle for me to work the selector, when for most people they need their off hand. Magazine is hard to seat with bolt closed. No bolt hold open (or as they teach in the H&K armorer's school, "why would you want the enemy to know your gun is empty?" Heck, I just want to know when my gun is empty!")

The MP5 got its reputation when it was compared against open bolt guns like the Uzi and the Mac. Personally if I had to get into a gunfight with a subgun, I would rather have my PPsH.

MSG90: Proof that if you make anything absurdly heavy enough, you can make it sub MOA.

UMP: Plastic wunder-cousin of the MP5. Don't have as much time on one of these, but one of our local SWAT teams ditched all of theirs after breaking most of them. The folding stock can't take any sort of blow.

G36: From what I've seen, it is a relatively decent plastic AR18 with a really stupid scope. But you can't have one. Because H&K hates you.

XM8: Take the only decent rifle they've come up with since WWII, make it look stupid, make it not take any standard US accesories (even though that is who you are marketing it to) and make it melt. My business partner was involved tangentially with some of the original testing at Crane. This was not a popular gun.

P7: Actually, for a really overpriced 9mm, is a pretty good gun. But they are discontinued, and going up in price, because H&K hates you. :D

The Mighty SOCOM: Could they have made it any bigger? Yes, there are 14 guys in SOCOM who actually use them. From what I've seen, the rest of them sit in arms rooms.

On the civillian end of things, the SOCOM wins the award for the most overpriced pistol ever produced.

HK 416: It is the best rifle EVER. It is called THE AWESOME. Lightning bolts of coolness fly from the gun and smite your enemies with tuetonic fury. However you can't have one. Because you are a civillian, ergo, you suck. And H&K hates you.


Do I have anything positive to say about H&K? (sorry, HK) Well, talking to them at SHOT is always entertaining. The sneer and disdain for regular people is priceless.

Highland Ranger
November 27, 2006, 06:40 PM
I'm not in the gun industry and didn't realize they hated us.

But then again, I've never had any reason whatsoever to interact with them.

Bought guns, they work. Ordered a hat from their web site . . . . that's it.

I guess they are overpriced, but then again, being from NJ, its hard to tell.

dam8
November 27, 2006, 06:48 PM
I've contacted HK on several occasions. One time for a slide hold open problem with my p7. They walked me through a simple procedure that solved the problem. Other times were tech help, customer assistance etc. Had nothing but polite, patient help.

Michael Zeleny
November 27, 2006, 06:55 PM
G3: Vastly overated rifle. It is interesting how one cheap stamped sheet metal gun is berated as a cheap commie gun, but the G3 is the pinnicle of absolute teutonic engineering?The G3 has the merit of reduced service life that negates the shooter's capacity to wear out its barrel.

novaDAK
November 27, 2006, 07:58 PM
**** HK. They led to the destruction of these perfectly good Russian Toks and Maks just so their new USP 9mm's would have no competition in Estonia. :fire:

http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=236802

SnakeEater
November 27, 2006, 09:58 PM
Whatever. I choose my weapons by what works best. If anyone on here claims that the USP series is not superbly reliable and accurate, they are liars. Ergonomics? Safety is well placed, mag release is great after practice, and the grip is just right for manly hands:neener:

Is HK legally allowed to import all of their rifles? That's what I thought. Blame the politicians, not HK.

I guess a Springfield 1911 is perfection right?:rolleyes:

mmissile
November 28, 2006, 07:32 AM
I have about 25 Hk handguns. They are without a doubt the finest lineup of pistols for the last 30+ yrs. I've dealt with Hk for repairs twice. Both times they basicly rebuilt, shot, and cleaned my older pistols....free of charge. Everytime I've asked them for any kind of assistance, they were friendly, helpful, and quick to address any issues or questions I had.
I think there are alot of haters out there, due to the price of their product[Hk]. As far as being reliable...I've never had a pistol fail, except for personally caused damage, and worn out parts[20-30 years old].
They are also as accurate as any pistols I've owned[over 100 handguns], user friendly, and always the innovative stuff on the market.
The rifles don't do alot for me, but I always seem to have a couple.:) On a whole, I'd say everybody finally caught up with the advanced technology of Hk, and there are alot of decent firearms[for less $$] out there these days. But, I'll still take the best handguns made......Hk.:neener:

pablo45
November 28, 2006, 06:11 PM
Got a few and they are great but if i had a problem i would not call the manufacturer. They are not cool. I am still waiting for the p300 before i buy the p2000

waterhouse
November 28, 2006, 07:41 PM
As for government contracts, H&K got a pretty decent one from DHS a couple years back, and 50 new Border Patrol trainees every week will be handed a new p2000 for quite some time, plus the several thousand agents already in the field are making the switch.

I'm a fan of HK for everything but the price, but I've gotten all of mine used for fairly sweet deals, so I won't complain.

novaDAK
November 28, 2006, 08:38 PM
Don't get me wrong, I do love USPs and I do believe they're some of the best pistols out there that you can buy. But I disapprove of HK requiring Estonia to destroy all those Toks and Maks. Those are original Russian Maks too, where over here they'd sell for 350 easily. HK and Estonia were foolish because they could have just imported them to the US and made some bucks like most other countries :)

Autolycus
November 29, 2006, 06:28 AM
novaDAK: do you have any more information about that?

jlh26oo
November 29, 2006, 07:28 AM
The average, ignorant american has not even heard of them.

Bu the way, it is HK for Heckler und Koch not H&K, like in S&W.
Not H and K, just HK.

Uh, "und" is German for and.

http://www.hecklerkoch-usa.com/
Note the page title in your browser:
"Heckler & Koch Inc"


LOL!

His arrogance made that all the more sweet.

Wyndage
November 29, 2006, 08:26 AM
I have several HKs (among them a P2000, USPc, USPf, etc.) and think they are among the very best firearms built. I've dealt with HK customer service a few times (never because of a failure, however), and was unaware that they hated me so much, since everything went so smoothly. I guess behind their courteous demeanor they were in fact cursing the day I was born. :rolleyes:

BlkHawk73
November 29, 2006, 12:53 PM
Very happy with both and would buy a P7 if I could find one . . . . .

C'mon they are quite easy to find must either not really want one ;) or just not looking hard enough. They're all over GunBroker and GunsAmerica.

atblis
November 29, 2006, 01:46 PM
I was hoping Correia would weigh in. That's exactly my take on H und K.

H und K's armorer school is usually good for a laugh. Last thing they were preaching was not to field strip the USP too much because the frame couldn't take it. Ha!

DoubleTap007
November 29, 2006, 01:58 PM
I have an USPc 9mm Stainless. Great gun. Perfect out of the box and really needs nothing. Fires like a dream.

For the most part people don't want to spend the money on them. However if you look you can get a good deal on one. I paid $640 for mine and haven't looked back. Also there is plenty going on at hkpro.com.

novaDAK
November 29, 2006, 09:39 PM
Tecumseh:
http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=236802
There's a link to the article in that thread with more pictures and info, though it's not in English.

turtles
November 30, 2006, 12:12 PM
You should not be paying more than 700 for a new USP, if you are paying 800-900 then you got robbed and that was your own fault. Most dealers will mark them up this high because people will still buy it so why not if your the dealer?

Correia
November 30, 2006, 01:17 PM
Dealer cost on a new USP 45 from the biggest wholesaler in the country: $617 + $25 since they are shipped overnight via UPS. Total cost to the dealer is $642. So $700 would be a 9% markup.

Yep, those dealers sure are molesting you.

The Real Hawkeye
November 30, 2006, 02:46 PM
The H&K versions [of the G3] are absurdly expensive, because they despise the civillian market.I bought my brand spanking new Hk semi auto G3 back in 1980, or thereabout. Cost to me was about $600. Liked it a lot. Wish I had never sold it now.

Currently, I only have one Hk, and that's the USP .45, full sized. Never a failure when I don't rest my thumb on the thumb safety, however I do have a big complaint about it. If you do rest your thumb on the thumb safety, and you press too hard, it will lock up the trigger mechanism, preventing fire. Seems to me that in the stress of combat, over pressing the thumb safety would be a rather common event, and could get someone killed if they happened to be armed with an Hk USP .45.

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