[TangSafetyM77]

I was given an old revolver by my Grandfather a couple of years ago. It belonged to my Great-grandfather, and my Grandad thinks he got it in Canada. My Grandad also told me he believes the revolver was made in the early 1900's and that this was the first double action revolver fielded by Colt. The serial number is 1465xx, and all visible numbers match. It also has a couple of patent dates in 1878 on the side of the frame. It is in .38 long colt, and I remember firing this gun as a kid. The revolver seems to be mechanically solid, though I have not fired it nor so do I have any ammunition for it. It locks up TIGHT. This is the 4.5" (approx) barreled version. Condition is pretty good, light pits here and there, and some moderate staining in the bore. Case hardening colors are still quite visible, especially on the right side of the gun. The black rubber grips are in good shape and show almost no wear. I have asked around as to the value of this gun, and have been told everything from $200 up to $1500. I am in the process of getting some additional insurance to cover my gun collection, and I need to put a replacement value on this piece. It is, of course, not actually replaceable to me given the family importance, but I still would like to establish a value. Thanks! Also, is there anything I can do to remove the little rust stains on the outside without damaging the finish or degrading the value?

[Old Fuff]

You have a Colt model 1877 “Lightning” revolver, that was made in 1903. It is chambered in .38 Long Colt, AND IS INTENDED TO BE USED WITH BLACK POWDER CARTRIDGES ONLY! Finding one in the condition you’re gun is in is unusual. Most have broken lockwork and/or grips. The approximate value is around $800.00 to $1,000.00 The original period IWB holster would add to this.

[TangSafetyM77]

I appreciate all the quick information. This forum is such a great resource. Fuff, when you state black powder cartridges only:

1. If I buy some 38 long colt from Old West Scrounger or another outfit that advertises ".38 long colt" will they be OK? They seem to be loading 38 spl bullets at low velocities (750 fps), would these be ok in this gun? Seems like the Cowboy Action shooters have sparked enough interest that the ammo may now be available.

2. Since this round was the predecessor to the .38 spl, could I cut down .38 spl brass and use black powder to come up with my own loads?

Don't want to shoot this gun much, just a little to connect with Great-granpa, and have a few rounds laying around for when my son gets old enough...also would love to shoot this old piece with my Grandfather who gave me the gun. He's 81, and he still won't give up his 1911 Remington Rand he carried in WWII!

[George Hill]

Please... do not shoot that gun!

[BigG]

is there anything I can do to remove the little rust stains on the outside without damaging the finish or degrading the value?

I would coat it with Breakfree CLP. Just rub it all over with your hands. The stuff will penetrate under the corrosion and in a couple days it will wipe right off with a soft rag if it is not too deep. From the picture it looks like it isn't. It will not harm anything and the metal will look like brand new. At least that is my experience.

Congratulations on your beautiful piece of history!

By the way, since it doesn't sound like you are a reloader I would not fire it with factory cartridges either as they are probably smokeless. That gun is for Black Powder and that is what I would use. You are correct that the 38 Special is a longer version of the 38 Long Colt but loading BP can be tricky and may result in putting a ring in the chamber unless you load it right. Check with Old Western Scrounger to see if their cartridges are loaded with BP. You will then have to wash it out with water after firing with BP.

Also, do not store the gun in a leather holster as that will cause further deterioration.

[TangSafetyM77]

BigG: OK, obviously I am not a reloader, yet. I just bought a press, and have watched the video, but still haven't gotten the nerve to try for myself. I am going to take the NRA class before doing so, but just wondering. I will check into the available loads and find out if they are BP or smokeless. Washing the thing out with water sounds like it would be a pain and couold contribute to further degradation of the gun. I do know enough not to store in the holster, I think that is what has contributed to the deterioration of the finish that has already occurred. I keep it in a pistol rug since I got it, but I like the old holster, and put it in the picture...notice the cutaway to make sure the trigger is NOT covered!!??
Mr. George Hill, when you say please do not shoot that gun, are you talking from a safety standpoint or a historical/value point of view?

Anyway, thanks again all. I will douse her in CLP and see what I can do to remove the spots.

[Old Fuff]

There may be two problems when it comes to shooting the gun.

1. Colt specifically did not warrant the model 1877 with smokeless powder ammunition. Even as late as 1908 when they discontinued the gun, the box it came in had a label on the end that said "Black Powder Only" or words to that effect. Smokeless powder burns faster then black, and while it may not generate more pressure then black (depending on the load) it generates it faster, particularly in the chamber. Keep in mind that you have an exceptionally good example of the "Lightning," but it 100 years old. So-called "cowboy loads" in .38 Colt are intended to be used in modern reproduction cap&ball-to-catridge conversions or Single Action revolvers that are stronger then your model 1877.

2. The lockwork has a reputation for breaking, especially small springs. If something does break repairs can be dificult and expensive because few gunsmiths are qualified to work on them. Frequent cocking and/or shooting is asking for trouble. Again, keep in mind that although the revolver looks good, it is still a century old.

You are very fortunate the have what you've got - both from the historical point of view and your own family's history of the gun. You should take very good care of it and pass it on to future generations in as good shape or better then when you got it.

[Alex]

I would imagine that you were cautioned not to shoot the gun mainly because of the fragile nature of its lockwork, and also perhaps because there was some concern that proper ammunition might not be used. If the gun is tight as you say I would probably not hesitate to fire it with proper black powder loads, but you should keep in mind that again the lockwork is fragile on these guns, most of the ones you find today have something internally broken on them and they are expensive to repair and of course you will diminish the value substantially if this happens. All in all it's probably better to just keep it clean and oiled and hand it down to future generations, you have a piece of family history that I very much admire as I'm sure you do.

[Stickjockey]

TangSafety-

Congrats on the Lightning! I would go with what others have said about shooting it, especially with smokeless rounds.

About value: mine is in relatively good condition although it's a little loose on the timing. It has also possibly been refinished at some point in it's life, since it has nice deep blue finish on the frame and barrel, but the cylinder is a sort of deep plum color. The guy at my favorite gun shop put a guess for insurance purposes on it of around $950-975. This was about nine years ago, so it may have gone up a bit, but it might give you a place to start.

Hope this helps!

[TangSafetyM77]

I appreciate all the replies and information. I had found out a little about the revolver, but I know a lot more now, had no idea the Lightnings had a reputation as being rather fragile.
I have doused the gun in CLP and is has sat for a couple of days. I am going to see if I can clean up the finish, and then leave her alone. I want to be a good steward of this gun, so that my son (my first, due Sept 16th) will get this piece of history in better shape than when I got it. I will use the upper end of values for insurance purposes. This forum is great.

Tang out.