[Skunkabilly]

If I had a shoulder fired weapon in the car, what are the merits of a shotgun vs a carbine?

I'm leaning on an SKS (since it is Asian-Pacific heritage month) or a Mosin or Mauser or some cheap mil-surplus gun I won't miss if my CRV shooting ports get smashed, but may go the pump shotty route.

Your thoughts?

[Soap]

I would want a rifle for the sole reason that if someone is shooting at you from behind cover, most likely another car, you will have to penetrate it. I think that a 30/30 lever would be perfect since it has that Granpappy Jack sort of a appeal and won't raise suspicious as much as a Bushmaster/FAL/M1A/etc. An alternative would be a shotty stoked with slugs. Using a car long gun for defense is really far fetched though since you can generally just drive away.

[Andrew Wyatt]

whatever you get, it should be a semi-auto, since you're peobably going to be alone in the car, and you'll have to operate the vehicle, too.

[Billy Sparks]

Skunk, I just went through this quest not long ago. What I decided on was a shotgun, currently it is a auto but I think I want to go with a pump. Main reasons ammo options, I can use bird shot, buckshot, slugs, etc...etc...

[Smoke]

Don't limit your options.

Go to local used gun dealer, find SKS, Appalachian Assault Rifle (.30-30 leever), other short cheap type rifle. The look at used scatter gun rack.

Put both in vehicle. You ought to be able to do this for under $400. (then your co-pilot has a weapon too.)

[Marko Kloos]

My trunk gun is a cheap milsurp Steyr M95/34 straight-pull carbine. I think a rifle is infinitely more useful than a shotgun as a trunk weapon, since the shotgun doesn't offer much more range than the sidearm and has low capacity and bulky reloads to boot. With the carbine, I can reach out way past 100 yards if I have to, with more punch and much quicker reloads.

For a trunk gun, a milsurp beater is ideal.

[12.7x99mm]

I second the sks

easier to load
faster rate of fire
less money
larger mags available
big pointy blade

The last one I brought was 2 years ago. $125.00 from a friend. It still had packing grease and saw dust in it :)

The last time a shot a sks at a old truck it did far more damage internally to the engine than I thought it would. And penetrated far thicker metal as well. (shooting hp's)

A vehicle would be easily disabled with a few rounds from this rifle

[ChristopherG]

18" 870 with 6-8 rds of 00buck in the mag and 4-6 slugs in a sidesaddle.

Can anyone offer me a scenario in which a rifle would be a better car gun than a shotgun thus configured, and estimate (go ahead and guess, it doesn't have to be precise) the probability of such a scenario ever happening?

cg

[Dorrin79]

I've been thinking about the same question for quite some time myself.

I still have not decided between a pistol-caliber carbine (a Ghetto-Fabulous Hi-Point 9mm) or a cheap beater mil-surp short rifle (probably a Mosin-Nagant M44)

Advantages to the HiPoint - clip fed autoloader. Light and handy. Calber compatibility with future carry piece (K-T P11). Cheap. By all reports, accurate (especially with a red-dot scope).

Disadvantages to the Hipoint - really cheap (maybe some reliability considerations). 9mm worthless past about 125 yds. 9mm unsuitable for shooting through cover. No hicap mags available.

Advantages to the Mosin - 7.62x54R caliber everything one could need. Pointy bayonet. Very Cheap, Very reliable, short and lightweight. Longer effective range than pistol caliber carbines. Can mount cheap scope if so desired.

Disadvantages to Mosin - 5-shot bolt action. Silly bayonet must be extended to get proper windage. slow to reload (I've never found strippers for it anywhere)

So, those have been my thoughts on the matter (much of the above was based on input from fellow THR members)

All said, I may just get another SKS. The only problem with them is that the Yugos are very long and very heavy for a truck gun.

Or maybe an AK, or maybe I'll bite the AR bullet already...

:p

[Cosmoline]

"My trunk gun is a cheap milsurp Steyr M95/34 straight-pull carbine."

Interesting, I just picked up one of these and was thinking the same thing. It would also make a great trail gun. The cartridge is quite potent, and the thing cycles nearly as fast as a levergun. It's dirt cheap, too.

The only big problem is the awful rear sites, which START at 300 meters and go out to TWO KILOMETERS! I'm brainstorming of ways to replace this with an apeture site without harming the rifle. If you're willing to drill and tap, you could mount a sturdy red dot pistol scope out on the barrel.

[Nippy]

Skunk don't get a pump stick with the semi-auto. Car, movement, driving, open doors close doors, shootin in weird positions :: just feels bad to me if I have to pump. For urban, I'd go with a shotty. For outdoors probably a mini-14. But seriously, I'd mount a .50 cal on my station wagon and call it good :D

[Jeff White]

Carbine....You are responsible for every projectile you send down range. This limits your maximum effective range with a shotgun, unless you decide to use slugs only.

Jeff

[Feanaro]

Car, movement, driving, open doors close doors, shootin in weird positions

You'll have trouble with anything in that situation except maybe a pistol. But I agree, a semi would be better. And no bolt actions, IMO. The SKS sounds good.

[45King]

Appalachian Assault Rifle (.30-30 leever)

Oh, I LIKE that one! Gotta remember that catchy little phrase...

[Ian]

How about an Enfield carbine? Either sporterized, or a real No.5. Ten round mag, fast action, good sights, potent cartridge, handy...seems like a decent choice to me.

[Meowhead]

For some reason I envision this gun being used one-handed, with the other hand on steering wheel or gearshift. So, something light. Short-barrelled (16" or so) lever-action carbine in .44 Mag, maybe? Working the action might be problematic with one hand, though, unless you're Schwarzengherrecker, so semiautomatic. Ruger used to make a nice .44 Mag carbine, but that's gone. Maybe one of their modern carbines, in .40 caliber, or a Marlin Camp Carbine in 9mm or .45 ACP?

Just thinking out loud, don't mind me. From the original choices, I would go with an SKS for cheapness and power, or pistol-gripped 12ga for easy maneuverability.

[jacketch]

I vote BAR:D

[Bowlcut]

The Hi Point carbine is awsome for cheap accurate and light. Only problem is it feels fragile and with a red dot on it, hard to mount. The bolt for the action sticks way out so it can only lay on one side.

Mosin-Nagant, kinda heavy. But dang its cheap and accurate. Id say it has more round about uses than a Shotty. Just because you can take down animals, pests, or BG's with it. Again the bolt and the bayonett on the m44's make it hard to place it anywhere as you have to lay it on one side.

Pump shotty....well you can lay it anywhere, and keep it unloaded cause its only a second to load it.

I kinda like the MN or maybe a SKS for all around useage

[Blain]

18" 870 with 6-8 rds of 00buck in the mag and 4-6 slugs in a sidesaddle.

[Skunkabilly]

Fast to load is a requirement, I can't transport loaded firearms that are not listed on my CCW.

Ammunition loaded in magazines and clips is a gray area, I think. Clips look less 'loaded' than loaded mags.

[The Silver Bullet 1719]

Fast to load is a requirement, I can't transport loaded firearms that are not listed on my CCW.

Ammunition loaded in magazines and clips is a gray area, I think. Clips look less 'loaded' than loaded mags.
Go with the SKS

[TheLastBoyScout]

I'm probably gonna catch flack for this from the shotty crowd, but I really don't think there's anything a pump action shotgun can do as a truck gun that an SKS can't do as well or better.

[Bowlcut]

Mmmm forgot about KKKali. Might want to go with either an sks or hi point. mag loaded for the hi point...but they may not like that. sks strippers might be best

[itgoesboom]

Skunk,

I think that the SKS would be an excellent choice; quick to fire, low recoil, stripper clips would be legal, will penetrate cover pretty well and its cheap, and so is the ammo.

I do like the idea of a lever action as well though, since that can be loaded quickly, brought to bear quckly and easily, plenty of power up close, and its less likely to draw attention if anyone catches a glimpse of it in your truck.

My big concern with the SKS is that its one of the more popular rifles for gang-bangers to have, and the police know this, and might give you a hard time.

Either one would be a good choice though.

I.G.B.

[El Rojo]

I wanted to put my Remington 870P on my CCW just so I wouldn't have to unload it and load it every stinking time I decided to take it somewhere. I chickened out when it came time to renew and didn't list it.

With that fact, I would go for a clip or magazine fed rifle. And for my trunk gun scenario, it nevers involves driving and shooting. The reason I pack a handgun is so I can shoot close range when I have no option to drive away. If I need a rifle, I would rather duck down and drive than try to drive and shoot. My rifle is for aimed accurate fire, not spraying and praying. I envision having to plink someone off from distance while using your car as cover. How probable is that? Not very at all. In fact, extremely unlikely.

If I were skunk, I would put in the SKS. It is cheaper to have your car stolen with the SKS in there than with the M1A. During Y2K, I had my M1A, M1 Carbine, and the 1911 all stashed in the trunk with lots and lots of loaded magazines at the ready. I also had my Glock 27 on my person during the festivities. I was in small town Kern County at the time. I was prepared for civil unrest. What a let down for the trunk gun fantasy.

Really, any cheap rifle/carbine will do. I was just holding my M44 this weekend and noticed what a handy little carbine it is. Only problem is in low light, you are going to be giving away your position. Or you might blind the target if you don't hit it.

[Darrin]

18" 870 with 6-8 rds of 00buck in the mag and 4-6 slugs in a sidesaddle. I'll 3rd this one. Maybe it's just because I'm waiting for my 12 gauge to come in..... :evil:

[Monte Harrison]

Silly bayonet must be extended to get proper windage. :confused:
How does a bayonet affect windage?

[Cosmoline]

Many of the M-44's were sighted in with the bayonet extended. If you retract it, the group shifts.

[Billy Sparks]

In self defense situation why do I need to shoot out to 100 yards? I am just curious.

[venom600]

In self defense situation why do I need to shoot out to 100 yards? I am just curious.

Word.

--Ben

[45R]

Amen to that!!!!!

870 with the correct loads. LEOs all over the nation carry shotguns in their vehicles.

Either way you cant go wrong!

Skunk it all boils down to what you like, your skill level with each and your comfort zone with a carbine or shotgun.

[foghornl]

Monte:

It varies from rifle to rifle, but in a very general sense, the Mosin-Nagant M-44 rifles were made to be used with the bayo extended. The bayo swings out, and a loop "clicks" over the end of the barrel. I am not a physics expert or metalurgist, but as I understand it, has something to do with harmonics generated by firing, and horizontal muzzle whip.

On MY M-44, POI changes about 4" @ 100Yds with bayo extended vs bayo folded. Some folks have reported as much as a 7" POI change, while others say less than 2" @ 100 difference.
Therefore, note that Your Mileage (Windage) Will Vary, and MAY be ammo dependant.

On a side note, and not to hijack the thread, I don't know too many rifles where you can get so much "Bang! for the $$". Last time I looked at my local Dunham's Sporting goods, M-44's were going for $60, ammo was $5/20. Larger quantities of Mil-Surp ammo are even cheaper from some of the Internet sources, as low as about 8 cents a round.

[RandyB]

Either way its better than a rock. I have a car gun and it varies from a shotgun to a marlin camp 9 to a model 94 in .357. Depends on what I'm doing. If it is squirrel season I carry the 94 (with 100 grain wadcutters in .38 it makes a really great gun and shoots quieter than a .22). In town I tend towards the shotgun. After all if trouble is +100 yards away, I'm getting outta there. My camp 9 is cheap and basically goes when I carry my 6906.

[Tommy Gunn]

http://tommygun.com/images/1927A1.gif
Thompson 1927A-1
"Deluxe Semi-Auto"

[Skunkabilly]

How much is cheap 7.62x39 and is it steel jacketed/steel core?

[Dorrin79]

Skunk - I recommend looking at CheaperThanDirt.com Link Here (http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ctd/default.asp)

They have Wolf 122gr HP 7.62x39 for around $100/1000 rds

They sometimes have surplus FMJ for even cheaper.

[Skunkabilly]

What other milsurp rifles are out there are semi-autos and < $200?

[Marko Kloos]

What other milsurp rifles are out there are semi-autos and < $200?

You forgot to add: "...and legal to own in the socialist hellhole where I live?"

:D

[sm]

In another life...

I was given a pg shotgun to keep in my vehicle. I hate pg shotguns. I am best with a shotgun...and I wasn't allowed to change the stock. I was given another 1911 to use , kinda made up for it--I guess.

I agree with the rifle/carbine idea. Lots of good advice given.

Kidnapping was a concern for me at the time. If I had distance, use the vehicle to escape, or as a weapon. I used a primary and BUG in the same platform...1911. The pg was for close quarters, and kept in the trunk. It was suggested I may well lose hearing when fired from the trunk...being alive is a good thing though.

Firearm choices are often dictated by 'what if' and restrictons imposed. I did find out what damage occurs if one fires a shotty from trunk to driver's area...with safety gear on. I decided then to hide a 3rd 1911 in the trunk. did I mention I hate pg shotguns... give me a stock.

[Feanaro]

A Tommy gun doesn't seem too economical. About a thousand bucks compared to the two hundred and under for the SKS/shotgun.

Anyways, I don't see why you need the SKS but if you want it go ahead... if you are firing at over 35 yards then shouldn't you just be driving away? The shotgun is, of course, not semi but you can change the barrel to an eighteen incher and carry both slugs and buck.

[Andrew Wyatt]

the primary reason for a truck gun is the capability a long arm provides, namely, enhanced penetration and accuracy.


an SKS would be about ideal for a truck gun, as would a jungle carbine, or even an FR8

[Feanaro]

I suppose but wouldn't slugs do just as well? (Never used them before so I wouldn't know)

[TechBrute]

It cuts down on cargo room, but I have a GE minigun mounted in the rear of my Suburban. It cuts down on tailgaters, too.

[Texas Bob]

Carbine, short bbl AR15 w/fixed butt stock and red dot sights. Rember a few years ago when a BG went strolling down a line of cars by the CIA shooting at people. Clint Smith, "A handgun is what you use to fight your way back to the rifle you shouldn't have left behind.":)

[benewton]

Portsmouth NH police carry an AR above the above the sun visors in their vehicles.
Don't know if the the M or the AR type, but I'd strongly suspect the M

Don't know what they have in the trunk...

And, if it's good enough for them...

As for me, I just carry the seasonal weapon on my hip, 'cause, unlike the old pickup, it's questionable where I'd place the long weapon in the Avalanche.

All that said, I'm not likely to be screwing around with somebody beyond 100 yards/meters when I could merely drive away, so I'd opt for the shotgun. Nor am I likely to be both driving and shooting at that range: I've a big enough problem hitting targets with rifles STANDING STILL that far away, and I've a few problems regarding incoming, outgoing, and driving all at the same time.

So, me for the shotty. Slugs available, 00 up the spout, and jungle load in the mag., drive if you can, out if you must, and god help you if you need to justify a 100 yard killing at any time.

[Skibane]

You "just drive away" advocates are assuming that you'll only need the weapon while you're out driving around. In reality, keeping a rifle in the car also provides some protection every place you park the vehicle – at work, at the home of a friend or relative, in malls, grocery stores, etc. With a good car gun, matter where you go, your firearm is only a short distance away, any time of the day or night. You weapon choice should reflect this 24/7 aspect.

Personally, I carry a Saiga "sporter" in 7.62 x 39 caliber, with a short 16" barrel. At under $160 (brand-new), it offers Kalishnikov reliability in a smaller, lighter package than an SKS, yet costs roughly the same.

[Feanaro]

Even assuming you would need the gun when you cannot drive away why would you need a rifle? A shootout at sixty yards is unlikely and even then a good pump or semi can work that out with slugs. The shotgun also "provides some protection every place you park the vehicle". Although it comes down to personal choice. Myself, I'd take both.

BTW, If you are just refering to general firearms, sorry but you did say "rifle".

[El Rojo]

Why might you need a truck gun? North Hollywood would be a good case. Just happen to be in the area and you see the dudes bustin caps full auto at 100 yards, put em down. As you are walkign towards your car, unknown assailants start shooting at you 100 yards away. You take cover behind your car. You yell out, "Don't make me pop the trunk foo!" They respond by bustin another cap out dare heater. You pop the trunk and commence to pop pop pop. Word. (Why I went to gangsta Rojo I don't know, but was it amusing?)

Why do we all have lots of firearms with lots of loaded magazines all over the house? Why do you own any firearms? Just in case right? Odds of needing them? Pretty slim. Do you let that stop you from having more guns, more ammo, and more accessories than you might "need"?

I think it is better to have and not need than need and not have. Carry a rifle in your trunk. You probably will never need it. That day you do, for whatever reason, you will be glad it is there.

[Kaylee]

I tend to go with the "and why would I need that?" viewpoint.... but I keep a .30-30 behind the seat just on general principles.

Truth be told, I doubt I'd ever need it for anything more serious than a signaling device or putting down a road-injured deer (illegal says fish and game, but I think compassion rules out there)... it's nice to know it's there though. I've also just yanked it out to go woodswalking sometimes if I've found myself in the backcountry without bothering to pack for the trip.

I don't see any reason why that couldn't be accomplished just as well with any of the above options.. were I to go strictly on function though I'd likely side with the 870 crowd.. makes sense to have a more general purpose longarm if'n ya get swamped in the mud or desert or som'n.

If I lived back in an urban-urban area where 2-legged critters presented the likely threat, prolly an SKS would be the ideal compromise between "solid enough to use" and "cheap enough to lose or abuse"

I guess it's another case of "what ya gonna use it fer?"

-K

[SquirrelNuts]

Skunk,

I would get a shot gun. You can do (and I know you will like this) a "tactical reload," to keep it legal.

A tactical reload is where you put one in the tube and rack the slide, thus putting this round in the chamber and the gun is ready to fire. Then, you fill up the rest of the feed tube.

-SquirrelNuts

[sm]

I like what Kaylee said. The "why would I need that" probably needs added the "where".

In my case, in the event of Kidnapping and put into my own trunk. Caught on the side of the road broke down, these BG's worked in gangs.I could easily carry into Motel room. My weapon was SA and the vehicle.

Now I've carried a shotgun like I wanted and or a rifle, usually a 30-30, or model 70 in '06. The "where" was not for the city,per se'. I would run to the farm, various properties out in the woods, or it was deer, duck, dove season. Maybe to just walk the property.

Living in a rural area makes perfect sense. Especially if a correction facility is nearby. Big city USA...doubtful especially if no CCW allowed or anti gun status. Why get busted, then that being on my record denies me lawful CCW if laws change or I move to gun friendly state with CCW.

Me, I'm gonna avoid a firefight on the streets, ala thread on Hollywood Shootout. Ain't my place, or fight, I don' t need to pull out a long gun and be mistaken as another BG. Stay safe, observe, protect anyone with me, and stay the heck out of the way.

Sidearm always then as now.

[twoblink]

Skunk..

What Dan said is quite true.. You might have to shoot through barriers such as a car..

So I'd say, go with the 50Cal :D Just in case you need to penetrate the car.. LENGTHWISE..

[kmays]

I like the M1 carbine. Just about the right combination of capacity, range, and effectiveness. It is short enough to use out of the car, has good sights, is plenty reliable, and no shortage of high-cap mags. Add a buttstock mag pouch, fill up with softpoints, slap on a sling and oiler, and you are pretty well set.

The only problem is that USGI M1's cost mostly way too much, as do aftermarket. I would recommend a Plainfield, National Ordnance or other USGI clone. They come pretty cheap, can use GI parts, and you're not hurting too much if it's stolen.

The SKS is also a great choice for many reasons: no mags to keep up with, ammo is handy to store on clips in bandoliers, the gun's cheap, reliable, and accurate enough. Downsides: rather long for what it does, the sights flat out suck, and most of the ammo for it is corrosive (a fairly important consideration if you're going to be storing it in the trunk for long periods).

[Jack19]

I carry an AR in the trunk every day. Peace of mind is a good thing.