Snub nosed learning curve?


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Dr_Kaufman
November 19, 2006, 06:18 PM
howdy,
how long did it take you to learn how to shoot your 2" revolver reasonably well? Also, what were your circumstances when you started shooting it (i.e. had experience with longer barrel revos, came over from semi autos, new to shooting, etc.)?

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huntershooter
November 19, 2006, 06:32 PM
A "J" frame revolver is extremely difficult to shoot well, particularly double action-as would be the case in a SD scenario. It is an "experts" gun. I am baffled at how gun shop sales people frequently recommend this type revolver for "your wife". As a rule, the J frames have crap double action triggers, coupled with a 2" or shorter barrel, are bears to shoot accurately and rapidly. I've shot a lot of rds. competitively-thru 1911's-and consider myslf adequate with a J frame to 15-20 yds. I dry fire a lot and shoot several cyl.'s each trip to the range.

Preacherman
November 19, 2006, 06:57 PM
+1 huntershooter!

The snubby is perhaps the most difficult handgun to learn to shoot well, for a novice. Miniscule sights, short sight radius, a tiny grip, and (in the Airweight and lighter versions) recoil out of all proportion to its size (using decent defensive ammo) are real handicaps.

I'm pretty good with my snubbies, but I already knew how to shoot well before I started using a snubby. I always recommend learning on a full-size gun first, then moving to the more difficult weapon. When I'm teaching my disabled and handicapped students, they always start with a K-frame S&W revolver. If you can shoot this well, you can handle almost anything else. (Start someone on a 1911 and they'll have a terrible time mastering a K-frame! :D )

Another tip: if you plan to shoot a snubby extensively, get a .22LR version for training. I have a S&W 317 as a 'training gun' for my 442 and 642. Same size, grips, etc. (and even lighter weight), but I can put 500 rounds through it all day, every day, without being bothered by cost or recoil. The training translates directly across to my Airweights, too, due to the similarity of the guns.

Surefire
November 19, 2006, 07:13 PM
I never had any problems hitting the black the first time I tried my 2.25" barrel SP 101. Having said this, it definitely helped to be an experienced shooter. I think that people that are learning shooting for the first time would definitely have issues learning with a snub.

Ultraman
November 19, 2006, 07:31 PM
Get a Snubby .22 LR and Practice, Practice, Practice.
Remember the purpose of a snub nose revolver is for close & personal action so don't stress yourself out trying to get sub 2" groups at 25 yards. ;)

SP101 in .22LR
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v246/wmlapham/SP101008.jpg

dbarale
November 19, 2006, 08:05 PM
My wife asked me how accurate she had to be with her M60 LS before she could carry it.
I figured she was ready when she became able to hit consistently a 4" plate at 10yds shooting pretty fast.
I think it's about as good as most people will ever get with a 2" J frame, I also feel it's adequate for self-defense.

baker
November 19, 2006, 08:09 PM
Mine was my first handgun. I didn't know it was supposed to be difficult, i just kept shooting 'till I felt I had become reasonably proficient.:)

Standing Wolf
November 19, 2006, 08:52 PM
How accurate do you have to be with a snub-nosed revolver?

Accurate enough to hit a man-sized object at distances of up to five yards. That's what they're for.

That said™, I've never owned a snubby that wasn't amazingly accurate. The accuracy "problems" have nothing to do with the barrels and everything to do with mediocre fixed sights and puny stocks.

benelli12
November 19, 2006, 08:58 PM
I haven't heard of J-frames because I havent read any information on them, what snubbies are not J-frames.(brands)

gezzer
November 19, 2006, 09:49 PM
J frames are Smith & Wesson, all others are not.

Jkwas
November 19, 2006, 10:00 PM
My first handgun was my Taurus 605 snub. It just shot dead accurate right from the get-go. Dry firing helps a lot. Finding the right ammunition makes a big difference. Some ammo just doesn't shoot straight out of a short barrel.
I don't practice more than 20 ft out. If I'm further than that, I'm running the 100yd dash! :neener:

Kor
November 20, 2006, 12:52 AM
Well, my first snubby was a Ruger SP101 that I bought in 1994 - I had owned 2 .40S&W autos previously, and I bought the SP101 because I wanted a good snubby for CCW.

I attribute my present proficiency with and affinity for snub-nosed revolvers to the excellent design and manufacture of that first Ruger, and to the "honeymoon period" I went through with it. For about 3-4 months, I was handling the gun for at least 30 minutes a day, and dry-firing it at least 100 times every single day. Not out of any conscious desire to become a master wheelgunner or anything, simply because I was in love with the gun and couldn't resist fondling it. I supplemented this where I could, with 50-100 rounds of live-fire a month when I could afford it(at the time, my only regular income was Army Reserve weekend drill pay). Between hundreds of practice draws and thousands of flash-sight-pictures and dry-fires, I finally got to be pretty good with that SP101.

Alas, that first Ruger had to be sold at a time when I needed cash, but I have kept the flame(and my skills) alive with my 3 Centennials(1 640-1, 1 642 and 1 442). Now, I can usually shoot a low-90th-percentile score with my EDC 642 or 442 on a POST qualification, and I've been able to astonish one of my shooting buddies by going 5-for-5 rapid-fire on a steel torso target at 25 yds with the same 642 and some old carry ammo I was burning up at the time.

pedaldude
November 20, 2006, 02:09 AM
My 642 is ridiculously accurate, the trigger is awful and the cylinder lockup aint great either but it outshoots my 4" security six all the time, at 10' 15' and if I'm feeling lucky 30' I can take the center out of a target if I concentrate, much harder than my single action CZ97 but just as accurate.

the gun didn't point as well for me as I would have liked but I have gotten used to it and just don't hold it as high as my others which works well since it doesn't have to come as far out of my pocket.

I just hold the thing as tight as I can and dry firing is a good thing with the snub as trigger pull is important on any gun but when you look at the sights when you yank the trigger it goes real far off,

I can shoot 12 gauge high brass all day, love shooting hot magnum loads out of my Ruger and I can't believe I'm saying it but the little snub is quite the hand full shooting +P and if you aren't holding really tight it'll take the skin off the web of your hand after enough cylinders full. I have no desire now for a 10oz .357 or even one as light as my 642 since I'm in no rush to develop a flinch.

The 642 trigger while real rough when I got it has smoothed up noticeably after lots of dry firing and it stacks a bit so you can take up all the slack and cock the hammer and then line up the shot and take out the bullseye at a distance if you haven't developed a smooth enough DA trigger pull yet, since you aren't gonna be shooting SA in one. Although it would be cool if someone figured out a way to convert the stupid lock into some kind of cocking mechanism, absolutely useless and excessive, but it would be funny.

I would say that it isn't alot harder to shoot a snub, but that it is easier to learn bad habits and get frustrated.

Old Fuff
November 20, 2006, 09:58 AM
The word “snubby” covers a lot of ground, and some are a lot easier to shoot then others. A K-frame Smith & Wesson (especially one with the old long-action) or a Colt Detective Special are much easier to master then a J-frame S&W.

So of course the J-frames are the most popular of all. What can be done? Well first of all ditch those little 2 finger-grooved boot grips that come on them and buy replacements that actually give you something to hold on to. Then get a set of snap-caps and dry fire all you can. This not only smoothes the action, but also builds up the wrist and finger muscles that are needed. If you are shooting at eye level, concentrate on keeping a sight picture at the end of the trigger stroke.

The basic rules of marksmanship still apply. You just have to work harder to employ them.

Last but not least, if it won’t interfere with your mode of carry, consider that a 3 inch barrel will do everything a 2 inch or less will, but do it better. I carry snubbies when nothing else will do.

Deanimator
November 20, 2006, 04:15 PM
That said™, I've never owned a snubby that wasn't amazingly accurate. The accuracy "problems" have nothing to do with the barrels and everything to do with mediocre fixed sights and puny stocks.

...and a failure to practice sufficiently. Revolvers with short barrels require a certain amount of skill to employ effectively. That skill isn't acquired by throwing it in a drawer and forgetting about it.

Jkwas
November 20, 2006, 04:36 PM
+1 to lots of practice. After about 1000 rnds or so it'll be second nature.
Seriously, get good snap caps, put a dime on top of the barrel and work on that trigger squeeze. Also, you may find changing grips will give you a better natural "point". Put enough time into it and it'll all come together.

Dr_Kaufman
November 20, 2006, 05:00 PM
follow up question:

would it be easier to learn on an external hammer version, so you can practice sa/da?

redneckrepairs
November 20, 2006, 05:07 PM
IMHO single action has NO use on a defensive revolver . You may howeaver want to give your snubby to a good gunsmith and have the action slicked up a bit .. Do be shure and tell him its a defensive / carry gun tho so he wont lighten the pull to the point that you have mis fires .

c_yeager
November 20, 2006, 05:14 PM
A snubby (sp101) was the first gun I owned myself. I had learned how to shoot with my father, but he didnt go to the range very often, so I didnt have a lot of skills built up. Based on advice from some friends I resisted the temptation to fire single action and stuck exclusively with double action shooting, I am glad that I did. It was frustrating and took a long time to get decent but once I did shooting all other weapons became remarkably easy. Starting off with the hardest weapon to master can be frustrating at first, but I think its pretty rewarding in the long run, besides there arent many people who can shoot snubbies these days and it can be fun to let some loudmouth shoot yours and then show him how it's done.

Ichiro
November 20, 2006, 06:04 PM
+1. If you can develop decent trigger control with a DA snubby, every other gun should be a breeze.

springmom
November 20, 2006, 06:47 PM
It just takes practice. I had an XD-40 and a Bersa Thunder .380 before I got the m37 I have. It took some time, and if I don't fire it regularly, my next range time will be less than acceptable. Keep practicing with it, a lot.

The good news is that .38spl is not terribly expensive and it won't break your bank to do this.

Have fun with it. Everybody achieves competency with any gun at different rates. Keep at it.

Springmom

Ben Shepherd
November 20, 2006, 06:50 PM
Dry fire. Lots of it. Watch many of your favorite good guy/bad guy movies. Just DON'T shoot the tv.:D

MCgunner
November 20, 2006, 08:00 PM
I seriously shot well with the first one I ever bought. I'd already been shooting DA revolvers for about 20 years when I got my first snubby. We didn't get concealed carry in this state until 1996 and I had little use for one before that. I bought a little Rossi M88 and it was quite accurate, shot to POA with 158 grain stuff and 3" at 25 yards accurate. The trigger left a little to be desired, though.

Now, I have a Taurus M85UL and the trigger on this thing is as slick as any out of the box trigger I've ever tried, awesome! It beats every Smith I've ever picked up and I don't need to mention it's better than that Rossi's DA. It's also a 3" at 25 yard gun. I can routinely roll five out of five 6" plates at 25 yards with it fairly fast shooting DA. I really like the thing.

As I see it, if you know DA shooting, the only thing to a snubby that's different is the short sight radius. You need to concentrate on sight alignment a little harder than is necessary with your 6" 686, but practice makes perfect. A few range trips with that Rossi and I was in the groove.

Now, if you've never shot DA much, that's a whole nuther story. But, all that takes is just a little more practice. Get a .22, cheaper practice. And, get some snap caps and dry fire while watching your sight alignment. Concentrate on smooth trigger control and proper grip.

Ala Dan
November 20, 2006, 10:35 PM
The only shooting I had done prior to using a .22 caliber snubby was in
Uncle Sam's Army~!;) It didn't take long too get acquainted with the
loss of accuracy from a short barreled revolver; but I was shooting at
'bout or close to 75-80 yards away.:scrutiny: :eek:

M2 Carbine
November 22, 2006, 12:33 AM
In 1960 I bought a 2 inch S&W Model 10 for off duty carry. The police department issued 4 inch 38's then.

I don't recall having any problem shooting either 38. At that time friends and I shot up to 90 yards at an old gravel pit with the 38's, Lugers and a couple other guns..
Using two hands wasn't done and ear protection wasn't heard of.:)

Now, I still have that Model 10 and it shoots as well, if not better than when it was new.
I also have a number of 2 and 3 inch J frames and a couple other brands with 2 inch barrels.

I'm not really concerned with what I shoot, just maintain a good sight picture and squeeze the trigger and the gun will do the rest.

A couple weeks ago I got interested again in shooting a hundred yards with small defense guns. I tried out my S&W Model 60 and it did good.:)

Mad Chemist
November 22, 2006, 01:20 AM
I don't understand why so many here advise snap-caps for S&W revolvers. The manual that came with my 642 clearly states that it is safe to dry fire and that you do not need snap-caps for dry-fire practice. I sometimes use snaps for FTF drills with the Glock but never with the smith. Is there some reason for snaps or is this just a personal preference?

New j-frame out of the box can have their trggers/actions improved dramatically by a competent gunsmith. My groups shrunk considerably after I had it done.

Will5A1
November 22, 2006, 08:14 AM
Mad Chemist - many of us are carrying/shooting older revolvers with firing pins mounted on the hammer rather than in the frame, and snap caps make sense for use in such revolvers. They also help with reloading drills if you are using a speed strip or speed loader.

MCgunner
November 22, 2006, 09:11 AM
I even use snap caps in my Rugers. I'm just paranoid, I guess.

33-805
November 22, 2006, 09:30 AM
Sometimes nothing else can be carried other than a snubbie and still not look like you are carrying. Practice makes for skill, and don't forget that the same reasons you carry a snubbie for backup still apply when it is your primary. I don't want to sound too paranoid or "Ramboish" here, but if you are carrying a J-frame for your primary, think about making it two or trying out a mini revolver (NAA etc.) as your backup. Guns fail, get dropped and otherwise go south on you. They are mechanical objects after all. Also, the fastest reload is usually another loaded gun.

Old Fuff
November 22, 2006, 09:42 AM
When you dry-fire a revolver (or for that matter any firearm) The firing pin is driven fully forward rather then stopped by a primer. In time a number of bad things may happen, including battering the firing pin's shoulder and/or mashing the firing pin spring - if there is one. Modest dry-firing may or may not have a detrimental effect, so a set of snap-caps is inexpensive insurance.

S&W and some others say that in their products snap-caps are unnecessary, but over the years I have examined a number of Smith & Wesson's (and others) with firing pin problems related to extensive dry-firing. Consequently I take their claim with a grain of salt. Others may do as they see fit.

No MCgunner, you are not paranoid, you're smart. :cool:

chaim
November 22, 2006, 10:39 AM
how long did it take you to learn how to shoot your 2" revolver reasonably well?I'll let you know when I get there:evil:

Seriously, I got my first snub a few years ago. I had been shooting revolvers (my first handgun was a revolver) and I love .357mag. I decided to buy a steel Taurus 605 (.357mag) and it was highly unpleasant and wasn't fun even in .38spl. I ended up selling long before I got used to it.

About a year later I bought a Taurus 85CH (DAO). I like it, but I am only accurate at very short ranges. I also have a S&W 442 (lightweight aluminium .38spl) and it isn't fun to shoot. I am a big .41mag fan, but lightweight .38s are no fun. With the short sight radius even the more pleasant 85 is hard to hit with any precision.

They are good enough for close in (25 feet and under) defense, but not for more (for me).

I plan to do as Preacherman suggests. I haven't gotten around to it yet, but I definately plan to get a .22lr snub. .22 is low recoiling even in a very light revolver and they are inexpensive so I could get a lot more practice than even with .38s out of my 85CH. It is good advice and you should consider it as well.

Oh yes, and to repeat what others have said- dry fire, dry fire, and more dry fire. Get used to that trigger and that will make a world of difference.

lawboy
November 22, 2006, 01:40 PM
+1 to standing wolf.
the issue is no different than with any other gun -- the gun must fit the hand holding.
With j frames, snubbie or longer, they are so small the don't fit many hands well. Proper grips make a huge difference, as do guns with adjustable sights.

My snubs are K frame guns, usually K frame magnums with adjustable sights. they shoot very accurately but the gun has to fit you and J frames do not fit me.

brownie0486
November 22, 2006, 02:06 PM
The snubs are not that difficult to shoot well. The difficulty for most comess in the form of trying to make those tiny little groups at longer distances than the gun is designed for.

I recommend a 5 shot J frame gun to many women/wives as their first gun unlike others who feel it is the wrong answer to their needs. I feel the snubs, when used in the proper context of their mission statement solve several issues for women who have little to no prior experience with handguns.

They are easy to load, don't require hand strength to rack slides, don't have safeties to worry about learning, require minimal training at the distances they'll be likely used at [ and bought for ], and can be left loaded for years without potentially being worse for wear in doing so.

The learning curve of operation is simple and easy to remember. For a new shooter or woman who will shoot little and have to rely on "remembering' what to do in crisis, just point and pull is all they really need to remember to get the thing to bark in answer to threats on their person.

For the ranges they'll really be used in a SD scenario, who cares that the sights are small and hard to see. If you are in that type of problem, with little to no training, little to no practice [ which includes many in the snub category ], if you are taking the time to align the sights, you are taking too long to resolve the issues likely at hand.

Brownie

10-Ring
November 22, 2006, 07:37 PM
It took me a while. When I first got my j-frame, I didn't have the patience I needed so I did not put the trigger time I needed to be proficient w/ it. Then, when I finally did put the time into it, I love that gun!
All & all...probably about 1000 rounds - in about a couple month's worth of range sessions :D

Eskimo Jim
November 22, 2006, 07:46 PM
My first and only snubby is a S&W model 19 with a 2-1/2" barrel. I'm not the greatest pistolero however I can shoot less than 4" groups at 25ft single action and probably around the same while shooting double action.

A snub nose revolver is a challenging handgun to shoot well, however it is not a skill that cannot be learned.

My guess would be that you could become proficient with a snub nose by going through about 500 rounds or so. This is just a guess and I just picked a number.

Jim

BigG
November 22, 2006, 07:47 PM
S&W and some others say that in their products snap-caps are unnecessary, but over the years I have examined a number of Smith & Wesson's (and others) with firing pin problems related to extensive dry-firing. Consequently I take their claim with a grain of salt.

Old Fuff - you crack me up. I don't often get to read wisdom from somebody who knows better than the manufacturer. Thanks for the enlightenment! :rolleyes:

Glamdring
November 23, 2006, 05:52 AM
For me it was somewhere around 300 rounds before I started shooting groups vs patterns. That isn't counting the dryfiring (probably 900+ dryfiring pulls).

Buy a case of Win's White Box USA 38/130 fmj for practice. After you shoot all of that you will be better. Other thing with snubbies is don't try to shoot 50 rounds per range trip, I stick to 15-20 rounds thru the j frame per trip.

GRIZ22
November 23, 2006, 06:49 AM
Many people feel that snub nose revolvers are inaccurate due to small size and barrel length. If you put that revolver in a rest you'll see that it's just as accurate as any other revolver. There all limitations like shooting wadcutters at 50 yds will result in some rounds keyholing but that's an ammunition issue. I qualify with a S&W Model 60 and have no problem keeping everything in the 5 zone. I know shooters who can reliably do head shots at 50 yds on paper all day long with a J frame (I am not one of them, 25 yds most of the time going to single action).

The secret is practice. 15-20 rounds per range session is not going to develop any expertise. Some of the problems shooters have from mastering a small revolver are:

1. The fascination with getting the lightest gun possible. Shooting a steel vs an aluminum frame will reduce recoil 25-30%. If you're beating yourself with recoil you're not going to shoot as much therefore not get a lot of practice. I think the 9 oz ultra-lite revolvers are made for those who like to inflict pain on themselves. There are so many macho men who carry an airweight because a steel frame "gets heavy". We're talking an extra 6-8 ounces here. A 200 pound (or even 150 pound guy) who has a problem carrying 8 extra ounces needs to spend some time at the gym.

2. Ammunition is also a factor. Don't practice with that +P load. I don't like using +Ps in a J frame as you really don't gain a lot. Recoil is not fun when you're shooting a lot. Wadcutters are good. The 130 fmj load is also but it seems to have more muzzle blast than standard pressure loads (although it is a std pressure load).

3. Sights were poor but are getting better. The sights on the newer S&Ws are a lot better similar to K frame fixed sights. A friend of mine has a Model 60 with factory adjustable sights which is easy to shoot but I'll admit look starnge on a J frame and ruin the compactness to some degree.

4. Grips can make a big difference. I use Uncle Mikes that extend a little below the butt of the grip and are a little wider than the stock skinny wood grips J frames used to come with. I'm not talking about some of these grips I've seen which look like they belong on a N frame. Larger grips also result in less felt recoil by spreading it out instead of concentrating it.

Like anything else you can't get good with it unless you practice, practice, practice. All the things I've mentioned will make your practice more enjoyable which means you'll do it more.

Dr_Kaufman
November 23, 2006, 01:33 PM
Thanks to everyone who's responded so far. Another question:

How do the steel snubs compare to the airweights for developing accuracy? I'm interested in the slightly larger (like the sp101 and s&w640) as well as the JFrame lookalikes like the Taurus 85/850 (non-ul).

chaim
November 23, 2006, 02:51 PM
How do the steel snubs compare to the airweights for developing accuracy? I'm interested in the slightly larger (like the sp101 and s&w640) as well as the JFrame lookalikes like the Taurus 85/850 (non-ul).

I have a steel Taurus 85CH (DAO/bobbed hammer) and an aluminium S&W 442.

The steel guns will do two things for you for accuracy:
-The steel Taurus 85 is so much more pleasant to shoot than the 442. That means more trigger time at the range (you can handle it much better) and more practice time means more accuracy.
-The steel guns will have much less felt recoil allowing you to get back on target faster for quicker follow-up shots. That can make the difference in a life or death self-defense situation.

Cosmoline
November 23, 2006, 03:14 PM
I confess it's taken me many years to get OK with snubbies. While among the easiest to *fire*, they're among the most challenging short guns to learn to fire *well*. They can be extremely accurate, in spite of their reputation. But it takes a practiced hand to get that accuracy to show itself.

Get training, then practice practice practice. Once you know how to shoot a snubbie well, other firearms seem simple.

I'd also suggest trying some small game hunting with them. Nothing will make you more humble than going through your chambers and clean missing at ten feet with every one while Mr. Squirrel chitters at you. That's when Mr. Squirrel meets Mr. CZ 452.

up_onus
November 23, 2006, 04:03 PM
how long? as many rounds as it takes....1000? 2000? 5000?
I dry fire mine every day to account for the 12lb trigger pull, and i shoot it weekly to be sure i can hit my target both standing and moving.

there are a few gunsmiths out there that will reduce the trigger pull to about 8lbs if you are willing to pay and lower the "safety".

Or you could always just get a bigger gun, and carry that-Even if you have less than a 1% chance of pulling the gun in your entire life....

Jkwas
November 23, 2006, 04:12 PM
I agree with the 12lb hammer spring. Anything less can be dangerously light. My snub came with an 8lber that developed a light strike problem. Upgraded to a 12 and never had a problem since. Perceived pull is hardly any difference.

BigG
November 24, 2006, 09:24 AM
how long? If you are paying attention to what you're doing, you should see significant improvement with each box of cartridges expended, especially the first several. If you are just making noise, you may never see improvement and you can join the chorus of those that say "a snubby can't hit anything." You should be able to DA pop cans off of a fence post at 50 feet after shooting maybe 200 - 300 rounds, if you are watching what you're doing.

SnWnMe
November 24, 2006, 10:01 AM
I had my DA trigger technique down when I finally bought my first snubby. Today I have 6 of them :o

I use one sometimes for combat matches to give myself a good assessment of where I am skills wise. I use an all steel model and not an Airweight for these gun games.

Candiru
November 25, 2006, 04:13 AM
I'm interested in purchasing a .22LR revolver to improve my accuracy with the snubby. Would those who have gone down that path recommend a larger (e.g. K or L frame) revolver, or would another J-frame be more conducive to developing skill?

nelson133
November 25, 2006, 06:39 AM
There's so much good advice here all I can do is back it up. Practice, practice, practice, learn to reload, .38 special is a cheap reload. I'm not against those who use a .22 for practice, I just prefer to practice with the gun(s) I carry.
I ended up using an SP101 for daily carry as it is the most comfortable snubbie for me to shoot, well except for the Dan Wesson with the 1-7/8 barrel, but that has concealment issues. I have tried the S&W and Taurus lightweights and they carry nice, but I hate to shoot them, they are touchy in .38 Special. I can handle the 125 grain .357 load in the SP101, especially since I had it ported.
If you get a Ruger, plan on lots of dry firing as it takes alot of it to get that trigger smoothed out.
Also, as said above, it is absolutely pointless and counter productive to shoot an sd snubbie single action. If you need it for it's intended purpose, single action training could get you killed. A fact about high stress sd situations is that thought goes out the window and instincts and training take over. You will do what you have practiced. If you practice single action that's what you will do, no matter what you believe you'll do. I don't see the purpose of a hammed spur on any snubbie I'd carry.

Preacherman
November 25, 2006, 08:20 AM
Candiru, I'd suggest the S&W 317, if you can find a used one at a halfway reasonable price (they're not cheap . . . :( ). An alternative is one of the older, discontinued J-frame .22's. The reason I suggest a J-frame .22 is that you specifically said that this gun would be for improving your accuracy with the snubby. In that case, the similar size, sights, etc. of the 317 will translate directly to your carry gun. If you wanted an all-round fun .22 for target practice, plinking, etc., then a larger one would be fine.

(Hint: the mainspring on the 317 is VERY heavy, probably to ensure ignition with sometimes 'iffy' .22LR rounds. I replaced mine with a standard J-frame mainspring, with no negative effects on ignition. This makes the trigger much more manageable!)

jonsidneyb
November 25, 2006, 08:55 PM
I think everyone should learn how to shoot a snub well. Not just within the ranges one is used. Not for practical reason of using that gun itself but for your use with other guns.

I think the process of learning how to hit targets in DA with a very short sight radius brings out many of the basics in shooting. I think if you can learn to do a fair job of shooting the 2 inch gun it will make you better with all gun.

When I see someone knocking over 50 percent of the cans they are shooting at with a small gun. I always have this feeling that if you stick a full sized gun in their hands they will be close to 100 percent.

I do carry a snub but try to carry a larger companion with it. Learning to shoot a snub has made me a better shot with all of my handguns.

Glamdring
November 28, 2006, 02:16 AM
GRIZ22: Why won't 15-20 rounds thru a jframe once or twice a week plus two-three dryfire workouts a week not work? :confused:

That is more than most LEO practice with their duty guns, since most don't do any dryfire AFAIK.

Bad practice is worse than no practice IMO. Keeping round count low per trip in the harder kicking guns allows for BETTER practice.

You can always shoot easier guns after that also, I usually shoot 1911 (10mm) or N Frame (44) after the jframe.

PointOneSeven
November 28, 2006, 12:52 PM
Three trips out to the woods. Or about 250 rounds of ammo.

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