[firestar]

I have been watching the CBS program (Hitler, the Rise of Evil) and he has this weird looking pistol that I don't think I have ever seen before. Anyone know what is is?

[Ledbetter]

Don't know, but was noticing that it looked as if the recoil spring was ABOVE the barrel instead of below.

[SoDFW Jason]

That's scary. I just posted the same question at GT. I'll post back here if I get an answer.

[Boats]

An early candidate, yes or no? Sauer & Son Model 1913.

http://www.marstar.ca/usedguns/pistols-p/images/SAUER-18555.jpg

[Boats]

No, I just ruled it out via a parts diagram. The above pistol is striker fired and the one in the miniseries had a hammer.

[Ledbetter]

Found this similar-looking pistol. A Frommer Model 19 (7.65mm).

[denfoote]

It had better be a Walther PP in 7.65mm, because that is what the old boy actually carried!! This has been authenticated by interviews with his former SS bodyguards!!

I postulate that at some point, he had to have been presented with a Walther P38, although, there is no direct historical evidence of this (All Walther records of the period were destroyed.) and the actual gun has never surfaced, although, there have been several "fakes" that have!!!!

Adolf Hitler did not like P08's because the company that made them was owned by Jews. So, it is highly un probable that he would own or carry one.

Other makes, such as the Browning High Power or the Radom, would be possible candiates, but Adolf was big on Deutsch products!!

The gun in question is probably a typical Hollywood prop designed to add "dramatic flavor"!!!!

[Boats]

No one is arguing for the accuracy of the show, but I will admit to curiousity about the oddball (and stylish) pistol. IF they were even trying to be chronologically correct where they were not actually correct about the pistol type, it has to be a model made before they depict him wielding it in the failed putsch in 1923.

That Frommer looks like a start. Maybe something in that family tree will be the one we are looking for. That pistol may even be an exact match, but we didn't get to see it much in profile.

[Boats]

Another view of the Frommer:

Frommer page (http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Gorge/4653/frommer.htm)

[denfoote]

I'll have to speak with my historian friend, but I think he was fond of Walthers even then!! Let me fire off an e-mail to him and see!!

[David S]

Actually Hilter carried a PPK, from what i heard. He had Two of them, one standard...........that he later killed himself and his wife with.....................he also had a gold plated presentation edition with his name ect on it..

[firestar]

I think that Frommer is pretty close. I know in the show they depicted it as having an external hammer which could be cocked but I can't remember seeing the hammer even though I looked for it. I would not put it past Hollywood to put the sound of someone cocking a hammer on a gun that doesn't even have a hammer. How many times have you seen a T.V. show or movie where someone cocks a Glock?:rolleyes:

At first I thought the gun was a German air pistol because it resembles a Beeman Huricane or Tempest which are really German air pistols made by Weiragh (sp).

In reality, did Hitler have a PPK or a PP? I know it was a .32 cal but I thought it was a PP not the smaller PPK.

[Boats]

The Frommer STOP. Yes it has a hammer. I think we have a winner for the cinematic weapon. I don't think AH would've carried a Hungarian pistol.

http://www.marstar.ca/images/frommerstopb.gif

[Hkmp5sd]

Hitler carried a 6.35mm Walther Model 8 in a holster for many years. He kept a 7.65mm Walther PP or PPK (no proof has been found as to which model) in his bedroom. Following a briefing on April 22, Hitler swapped and began carrying the 7.65mm (stated by Otto Gunsche).

According to statements by Otto Gunsche (Hitler's personal assistant) and Heinze Linge (Hitler's valet) they entered Hitler's room with Martin Bormann. Gunshe saw both pistols laying on the floor in front of Hitler, picked them up and unloaded them. He stated the 6.35mm was fully loaded and had not been fired. The 7.65mm had been fired.

The Last Days of Hitler: The Legends-The Evidence-The Truth by Anton Joachimsthaler

[firestar]

Now my next question is, why would they choose such a odd-ball pistol for the show if it is not even correct? Either someone had one laying around and decided to use it because it looked neat or someone's research is messed up. Why go to all the trouble of getting a Frommer-Stop when Hitler never even carried one?

I did a little research on the web and apparently these were made by FEG. I had never even heard of Frommer before.

[Alex]

Why wouldn't Hitler have carried a P08 even if the company was owned by Jews? Everything else about the man was in contradiction to what he did, why should his choice of arms be any different.

[CZ-75]

Why wouldn't Hitler have carried a P08 even if the company was owned by Jews? Everything else about the man was in contradiction to what he did, why should his choice of arms be any different.


I was watching a History channel special where they stated that Hitler's first "crush" was a Jewish Girl and he must have known this. Somewhere, therein, however, apparently during the war, he convinced himself that Jews were evil, even though he was recommended for the Iron Cross by a Jewish officer.

I would doubt Hitler would've carried a P-08 after 1919-20. The one characteristic Hitler was apparently fairly consistent in was his ability to work himself into a hatred for whatever target he fixated himself upon.

[firestar]

Most of the show takes place prior to 1929 so he could not have had a Walther PP or a PPK (1931). I just asked the question, when was the PP/PPK made on another thread and those were the dates given.

Does anyone know what he carried before the Walther PP/PPK? Someone said a Walther model 8, what is that and when was it made?

[denfoote]

I just got the answer from my friend!! Here is his reply:

Most "scholarly" accounts say that he
had a revolver. None of them bother to say what make or model.

His credentals are as follows. Sume Cum Laude graduate from Indiana University with a BA in 20th century German history and German language.

[Ledbetter]

http://www.rememuseum.org.uk/arms/pistols/armsap.htm

http://www.ada.ru/Guns/exploded/

[flinch]

I only saw the first part and only part of that, but what I did see made me think he was using a Frommer in the scene when he was going to shoot himself in the home of some friend before he was arrested.

[Hkmp5sd]

Someone said a Walther model 8, what is that and when was it made?

The Walther Model 8 was manufactured from 1920-43. In the 20 or so books I have on Hitler or the 50+ other books I have on WWII, there is no mention of when he acquired it.

According to HITLER 1889-1936: Hubris by Ian Kershaw, during Hitler's putsch attempt in 1923, he started the takeover by firing his "Browning pistol" into the ceiling.

I don't recall any other personal firearms owned/used by Hitler or the exact model Browning he possessed.

[isaidme]

I wonderd the same thing!

[firestar]

Seems like there may not be a clear answer to the question of what gun he carried before the Walther PP/PPK. I did not even care until I saw this program and it started me wondering.

[mec]

The Frommer illustrated above is the pistol in the mini-series. There was a close up of the hammer when he cocked it and aimed it at the rival for his niece's affection. It's a nice historical touch whether he had one or not.

[goon]

Found this similar-looking pistol. A Frommer Model 19 (7.65mm).

I am pretty sure it was a Frommer. Something tells me they were made in Hungary, but I could be wrong on that one.

[another okie]

I'm not watching the show, so I have no idea what they're showing, but if you want to see his 1921 pistol permit, it is illustration 50 in "Hitler: the Pictorial Documentary of his Life" by John Toland. It is not easy to read the text of the permit because the picture is small, but I think it says he can carry a 9mm. That's probably the Browning mentioned earlier. The specific pistol is not mentioned on the permit, just the caliber.