drop in ignition systems?


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new 1911 user
November 21, 2006, 03:34 PM
Hi
Can an ignition system be installed in a hi-cap Sv with out going to a smith?
If I bought a sear directly from SV I can install it myself. Lets say I wanted to purchase a bcp or yost system will the parts just drop in as they would if they were an original sv part?:confused:

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1911Tuner
November 21, 2006, 04:22 PM
Drop in parts sometimes drop in and work...sometimes they don't. Depends on each individual gun. It may claim to be "Drop-in" and many do just that...but it's best not to count on it. You could wind up with anything from a crisp, 4-pound trigger to worse than what you have, or anything in between. It may work for 30,000 rounds without a hitch, and it may work for 500...or less...and go haywire without warning. Seen it go both ways.

1911 pistols have a wicked fast cyclic rate when they go full auto. Something on the order of 1500 rpms. Best have a good grip on it.;)

Old Fuff
November 21, 2006, 07:09 PM
Well USGI 1911-A1 pistols had what amounted to a drop-in hammer/sear fit...

They also had trigger pulls that ran 6-pounds and sometimes more.:scrutiny:

Seems like there isn't a free lunch anywhere... :rolleyes:

1911Tuner
November 21, 2006, 07:12 PM
Yeah...but that was another world, eh ol' Fuff?;)

Old Fuff
November 21, 2006, 07:40 PM
Ya, these new guys don't know what the "real gun" really was, and that's too bad. Of course if they ran across one they'd think it was junk, being so loose and all, and with an outrageous trigger pull. :uhoh:

Tuner may be interested in this quote I came across:

"... never personally fired a pistol in anger ... saw a Sergeant kill a German soldier at a range of 75 yards as we were breaking out of the Battle of the Bulge ... it was such a remarkable shot we carefully paced off the distance ... "
Brigadier General L.E.M., U.S. Army, Ret.

The Colt U.S. General Officers' Pistol by Horace Greeley IV.

new 1911 user
November 21, 2006, 09:47 PM
Gentlemen,
Thanks for responding.What exactly does a layman have to do or check for when using these drop in parts?:confused:

1911Tuner
November 21, 2006, 10:03 PM
Sear and hammer hook engagement angles and even bearing of both hooks on the sear, mainly. (Requires magnification) The problem with the drop-in trigger job is that the interacting parts were dimensioned on a standard fixture. If your gun happens to have the same hammer and sear pin hole spacing as the fixture, you're golden. If not...and it only needs to be a few thousandths of an inch different...it can cause problems ranging from worse trigger to no change to a nice trigger to a sudden full auto event. The disconnect function is also a heavy player in the game.

new 1911 user
November 21, 2006, 10:18 PM
Thanks tuner, opinion greatly appreciated.

Old Fuff
November 22, 2006, 12:24 AM
Check out the link listed below...

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=132013

HammerBite
November 22, 2006, 01:36 AM
I just finished reading the thread Old Fuff cites in post #9 and it was one of the most educational things I have read in any gun forum. Thanks, Fuff!

Old Fuff
November 22, 2006, 02:06 AM
I'm glad you enjoyed it. Even better, there's a lot more that's just as interesting, and it's free for the reading. When you find something that is especially good you can drop it to your printer.

Have at it... :)

new 1911 user
November 22, 2006, 08:06 AM
thanks for the link.
I think its a bit more complicated than I had hoped for.
Too bad. I think I need a heavier trigger for my carry.
Thanks again

Old Fuff
November 22, 2006, 10:50 AM
One of the worst possible things that can happen is to unintentionally shoot someone during a high-stress situation because of a too-light trigger pull. A pull that is fine on a target or "gamer" gun is usually far too light for something that's carried as a weapon. This is no place to make a mistake.

new 1911 user
November 22, 2006, 11:00 AM
Thanks fuff.
The trigger on the carry is about 3 lbs. I wish it could have be 4-5.
Why would the weight of the trigger pull change with use?

Old Fuff
November 22, 2006, 11:59 AM
Two possibilities: One is that over time the contact surfaces beween the sear and hammer hooks burnish and become smoother. Another (and more likely) is that the sear spring (the flat one in the back of the handle) has taken a set and no longer tensions the sear as it originally did. You can reform (bend) the spring to increase tension on the sear and disconector, thereby slightly increasing the trigger pull.

If you are in a situation where you have to do your own work bcause a qualified gunsmith isn't available, go to: www.brownells.com

Buy a copy of a book: The Colt .45 Automatic - A Shop Manual, by Jerry Kuhnhausen, and read it. Also you can buy all sorts of parts, tools and gunsmithing supplies from this firm.

new 1911 user
November 22, 2006, 12:08 PM
Thanks again fuff.
Should really read up on the pistol. When they work its the best thing around. To bad there so sensitive.
Should I bend the left and the center leaf of the sear spring in an attempt to put more pressure on the sear and disconnector? looking forward to hearing from you.

new 1911 user
November 22, 2006, 12:19 PM
Thanks Fuff,
Just ordered the book. Hopefully it'll help.

Old Fuff
November 22, 2006, 12:34 PM
I wouldn't do anything until after you got the book, and had a chance to read it. The book's author also made some VCR tapes, available from:

www.gunbooks.com

The original pistol wasn't "sensitive." It became so when any number of companies started making copies that weren't faithful to the Colt/Browning design, and incorporated some parts using materials they shouldn't have. In addition some manufacturers, reacting to market demands, went to improvements of questionable value, such as (so called) match barrels that had tight chambers. These sometimes further reduced reliability. While 8-round magazines are popular, they too are non-standard, and sometimes cause problems.

Other pistols (Glock, Beretta, Ruger, Sig, etc.) are made by a single manufacturer with complete control over the manufacturing process. So long as one doesn't tinker with them they are usually very reliable. So are Colt's and USGI pistols made before... say, 1965.

new 1911 user
November 22, 2006, 05:51 PM
Hi Fuff,
I've tinkered with the sear spring of the government model sv that I use to compete with some success. Its the carry Tiki thats a bit troublesome.
SV has sent a bunch of parts so hopefully I get it sorted out shortly.
Thanks again for everything. When I receive the book and have read it I'll get back to you.
Till next time

Michael Zeleny
December 13, 2006, 06:30 PM
Other pistols (Glock, Beretta, Ruger, Sig, etc.) are made by a single manufacturer with complete control over the manufacturing process. So long as one doesn't tinker with them they are usually very reliable. So are Colt's and USGI pistols made before... say, 1965.Please tell more regarding this date. I am looking to get a postwar Colt to complement my first .45 (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=2833368#post2833368).

Old Fuff
December 13, 2006, 06:48 PM
1965 is sort of a rule of thumb. After that the cost-cutting and questionable changes to the original design started to show up. All of this is a matter of opinion of course, and many buyers seem satisfied with the current crop of "somewhat like" 1911 style pistols. My experience is that the older guns were better built because Colt, in particular, could still afford to use the skilled handwork that made "right," right; and it wasn't necessary to use more economical (but questionable) materials and methods to fabricate internal parts.

If you enjoyed reading about "drop in ignition systems?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!