[P95Carry]

I am curious .... and apolagize if this is an old question repeated ......... but always interested to hear LEO's take on us ''civilian'' CCW's.

IMO, we have a great and very responsible bunch of people here ... and would guess also that the majority of LEO's here ... active or retired ...... come because they are actual gun enthusiasts, as against ''just carriers''.

However, seeing as there seem to be quite a good number .. just keen to hear their (honest) opinions on the rest of us. I hope very much that we are a trusted section of the populace and maybe too deemed as a useful adjunct to making for a lower crime society.

[El Tejon]

As a LEO I took an oath to defend the Constitution of the United States of America and Indiana. My job was to uphold the Constitution and that included the Second Amendment, the Ninth Amendment and Article I, § 32 (Indiana's RKBA).

I was in the "gun culture" twenty years before I became a LEO at ancient age of 25 though. So, maybe never stopped being "one of you" when I got my badge.

The guys with the licenses were not the problem (O.K., one that I remember, a PI in the parking lot of a strip club--he got a diversion). Usually the type you want in your jury pool--responsible, employed and ties to the community.

[Pilgrim]

I was a gun person long before I wore a badge. In my experience in Kings County, out of all the CCW holders, and there are many in the county, only one was a problem and he both lost his CCW and went to jail over it. He pulled his pistol on some kids who pissed him off.

I got to know who all the CCW holders were because they paid their renewal fees in my office. A few I wondered about the Sheriff's decision to issue them a CCW, but they never caused any trouble. My biggest concern was the CCW holders who when they paid their renewal fees said, almost apologetically, "I don't always carry it. I just want it for trips." I wondered about their level of preparedness if they thought they would only have to face the goblin on their vacation.

Other than that, CCW holders never worried me at all.

[SquirrelNuts]

Most of the police officers that I know (and I know a lot) were gun people before they became police officers. The officers that never owned a gun have no problems with civilian CCW's so long as you are not breaking the law. Most LEO's here are right-wing, and the only officer that I know that is an anti was a LEO in NY before he came here. I guess that is a huge advantage to living in the south.

-SquirrelNuts

[Archie]

except I'm a federal type.

My experience with other federal LEOs is the younger they are, the more non-constitutional they are. Like all the other kids, they been brainwashed.

We have work to do.

[Fed168]

I am glad it is available to those who can get it, and support it.

[4 eyed six shooter]

I am now a retired LEO, but never had a problem with CCW's in the hands of responsable people. Every law abiding citizen should have the right to defend themselves, not just LEOs. Most of the time when a person pulls a firearm on some scum bag who is trying to rob, rape etc. the BG runs, slipping on his own excrement. The times a person has no choice but to shoot, well, that's one less idiot that I had to deal with. Never hurt my feeling a bit when another bad guy bit the dust. It's been proven time and time again that BG's are more affraid of armed citizens than they are of law enforcement officers and where ever citizens are armed, crime goes down. I did my LEO time in San Diego. Very few CCW's are issued there, so I tended to look the other way when I found a responsable citizen to be armed. I couldn't blame them for wanting protection. Not all LEO's think this way, especially the young ones. I now live in Idaho. Here CCW's are issued to anyone desiring one who can pass the background check. There is much more respect here as nearly everyone I know has a firearm in their vehicle or on their person. Very little crime here. CCW's work.
Good shooting, John K

[Matt G]

CCW licenses save me time: I don't have to run the guy on a traffic stop. He's safe, because he's already been checked over.

My biggest complaint about CCW folk is that most of you, statistically, are NOT CARRYING!!!

Oh, sure. I'll post this, and get a dozen or more denials by people who will state that they carry religiously. No one wants to admit that they went to that trouble, and then don't ever carry their gun. Yet, sure as the sun will come up tomorrow, if I stop a guy for a headlight or the like in the next 20 minutes (I'm on my coffee break at work, now), and he's got a TX C.H.L., and I ask him if he's armed, he'll say "Naw. Left it at home." I used to say "WHY!?! Carry that thing!" Now, I just let it go, like I did Weds. morning when I had one say that to me.

In my 3+ years on the street, I've probably had a little under 50 CHL's presented to me (Note: VERY few of those guys got tickets.). Of those, only about 5 to 10 were actually armed or even had a gun in the car. Sad. (Yes, I know I could be lied to effectively, but what would be the point, when they were presenting me with their CHL, anyway? Lying about it would just make them elligible to get their CHL revoked.)

Carry that thang!

[IRONFIST]

I gotta tell you Matt G, your post was great! I wish that there were more folks in law enforcement like you. I dont see all cops as bad, but I have seen a few that make me cautious around the rest. As a Bouncer, I have come to value the arrival of the police that I personally know, when it gets bad enough to call them, but if its a cop I dont know... I fade into the background and keep my hands out of my pockets and my eyes wide open. I wish you worked here.

Michael in Sandy, OR

[Sulaco]

All of the cops I know don't have a problem with armed citizens. I carry daily and got my permit so I could (legally). :D

[Invisible Swordsman]

Though Ohio does not yet have a good CCW law, I fully support the concept for people to have the means to protect themselves and their families. I have no reason to fear law abiding citizens being armed.

[P95Carry]

Reassuring replies guys and thank you.

Matt G .........My biggest complaint about CCW folk is that most of you, statistically, are NOT CARRYING!!! Kudos to you Sir! I agree and would if stopped by you be one of the exceptions! 24/7 is my deal.:) ('cept where i can't of course).

[Jesse H]

Carry that thang!

Heck, I went through the trouble of bringing 2 belts with me when I left the house this morning.

Had an interview at a police station and couldn't carry in there, besides, my gun belt doesn't match my interview attire. Once the interview was over, I went to my regular job, replaced the flimsy dress belt with the gun belt.

[Smurfslayer]

It's a responsibility. I've spent a lot of money on firearms, accessories, holsters, garments that keep concealment, ammo for practice, targets, etc... I carry pretty much everywhere I am legally permitted to carry, unless I am out and will be consuming alcohol - a very rare event.

Now, for Matt G - You need to jump on all the other LE out there, so that the CHP/CWP will also be good enought to get out of traffic tickets under the "professional courtesy" doctrine... :cool:

[Logistar]

My biggest complaint about CCW folk is that most of you, statistically, are NOT CARRYING!!! I'm TRYING! I'm TRYING!

Yesterday.... get into car.... (CCW is in vehicle but I don't put it on). When I get to work... can't carry there... SCHOOL. Left school to get driver's license and CCW updated since I just moved 3 blocks. Hey, can't carry in the building there either.:banghead:

I don't mean to sound ungrateful but it seems like everywhere I go I am restricted from carrying. By Kentucky law I can carry in my glove box WITHOUT a permit. I do carry WHEN I can. I just hate all those times when my CCW sits in the car. While I am defenseless, someone is probably stealing my CCW. :rolleyes:

I still don't understand why we (CCWers) are trusted in some places and not others. :cuss:

[Minor rant off]

Logistar

[Cliff]

I got this email from a buddy of mine not to long ago who has applied to LAPD,I thought I'd share it even though it does not apply strictly to LEO's take on CCW's. The above replies I've read about younger LEO's having a problem with CCW is interesting.

Hey guys,

I just flew back last night from LA. Well I passed all of their tests. It is obvious to me that they are in need of officers because they said I was not crazy and would be fit for duty. The only thing now for LA is to wait until they finish my background investigation. Montgomery County just completed their background investigation and now I'm just waiting to take my next test with them.

So let me share with you a lesson I learned while I was going through all the tests for the LAPD. It was very plain to see that they were not at all pleased that I owned a gun. They asked me many questions about this. I understand the questioning but by their body gestures and facial expressions it was obvious that they frownded upon my owning a gun. They also do not like people who attend gun shows or subscribe to gun magazines. Both of which I have done. So they begin to ask how many magazines or gun shows I have atteneded, why and so on. I was grilled on these questions during my background interview, polygraph, written and oral pysch tests. I understand that they want to make sure that they are not hiring someone who is gun crazy and that can be dangerous, but it is clear that their is a definite anti-gun sentiment in many of these law enforcement agencies.

[Erik]

I like CCWs and those who hold them. They both affirm my notion of how things should be and give an immediate indication that the person I'm dealing with is indeed far more likely to be one of the good guys than not - something everyone seems to insist they are, despite the at times obvious evidence to the contrary.

Locals vary with the politics, but as a rule advertising your status as a CCW holder, regardless of if it is required or not, is more likely to help you than hurt you in dealing with LEOs.

[wun_8_seven]

i always figured if you passed the back ground check for your cww you must be a good upstanding citizen & some one i didn't have to worry about. the law abiding citizens are on my side. 187

[P95Carry]

Cliff ..... if I read the content of your post correctly .. re the LA interview ... then I am both disappointed and concerned. I know - or have been led to believe - that city situations differ from small town and rural but .... this seems to show a trend that is both unconstitutional, biased, and altogether bigotted.

Thanks for posting that .. I shall be interested to see if there are more comments specific to it.

[Gray Peterson]

A lot of the "more pro-gun states" in the south have a hell of a lot of restrictions when it comes to where you can carry with your carry permit. In Florida, I counted no less than 14 places you cannot carry, including the entirety of a national forests in the state.

In Oregon, however, the restrictions are few and far between. If you have your CHL, you cannot carry in a state or federal courthouse or anywhere else federally prohibited. That's it. That makes my $65 permit more valuable than a $117 dollar permit in Florida. The only reason I would get a Florida permit is reciprocity with a lot of states.

That being said, I wish I had a gun to carry with my permit. The economy being crappy, and me being unemployed doesn't help things. Even a $120 surplus Makarov is out of my price range, it's that bad.

Otherwise, I WOULD CARRY.

[dpsychs]

Lonnie,

I LOVE your sig - is there a pink pistols group in your area? If so, they may need you! (If not, maybe you should start one...)

[4 eyed six shooter]

The thing about L.A. is that they just don't issue CCWS there unless you perform an un-natural act on the Mayor or Police Chief. During the LA riots, they were calling everyone in San Diego county who had a CCW and offering them $40.00 an hour for security. LA cops for the most part scared of any non LEO with a gun. I just glad I made the great escape and got out of Kalifornia.

[mrat]

As a LEO, my only problem with CCW is why more people don't want them. People need to realize that they are responsible for their own safety; the police are not their personal bodyguards, we don't have the time.

I also don't understand people who have CCWs and do not carry. My father-n-law has a CCW and he never carrys. I am fortunate enough to be able to carry my firearm everywhere due to my LEO status and I have a gun on me everytime I leave the house. I was a gun guy prior to being a LEO.

[Ala Dan]

Greeting's All-

As a former LEO, I've never forgotten the 2nd Amendment!:)

And I still think that its one of the most cherished right's
that we have. I have absolutely NO quarms with any
individual who lawfully and legally desires to express
these right's under our Constitution.

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

[stevelyn]

My belief and support for the 2nd Amendment is as absolute as it is for the 1st. The 2nd is the only thing that stands in the way of the others falling like dominos.
I not only support CCW, I try and promote it by educating people as much as possible when opportunities present themselves. I managed recently to convert a good friend of mine to support CCW. His arguement against it was to protect police officers. After explaining my support for it he realized police don't have anything to fear from armed citizens. As a matter of fact they are the ones we can really count on when the SHTF.
Only problem I've ever had with CCW is that not enough citizens consider carrying, and likewise too few CHL holders are armed at any given time.
I've never considered myself any different than the average citizen. Being a policeman is a job that I go to and assist the public everyday. It's not a way of life for me. We get paid to do full-time what citizens already have the power to do. That power is only delegated to us by the people we serve. It's too bad "The People" have very little understanding of that in this day and age.
I took the oath to defend and support the Constitution several times, as a soldier, and as a police officer. That means all of it. I truely believe the founding fathers drew up one of the most perfect and forward thinking documents in human history. The contents therein are every bit as relevant today as they were 227 years ago. And yes I would risk life and all I have defending it against all enemies foreign and domestic.

[winwun]

I am indeed heartened by the overwhelming positive response to the original question.

That being said, however, I am troubled by some that things that were mentioned in passing.

One, is the number of areas that issue by county at the whim of the chief LEO, generally the High Sheriff.

Tennessee was that way for a while, and then the permit went state-wide, and further, it is issued by the same people who issue drivers licenses, and the permit carries the same number as the DL, so in a traffic stop, the LEO gets the full info on his initial check with the dispatcher, or at least he should.

Mrat, you made a great point, and I will go further to say that if a police officer is close enough to protect you, you dont need a CCW. If an officer ISN'T near, then you are on your own, or hopefully there is someone near that has a CCW that will come to your aid. It can't be emphasized enough that the police come out AFTER the fact.

I see a trend also, in the right direction, of breaking down the limits of where you can't carry.

Now, it is permissible to leave the weapon in the vehicle in the parking lots of places that were previously banned.

Does it tell you something that we are trusted enough to carry in the general population, but NOT in the VERY areas where the weapon is most likely to be needed ? ?

Lonnie, hang in there, buddy. If you were near, I would gladly lend you something to carry until you could get your own. I'd be willing to bet that someone closer will read your post and do just that.

[jato]

I am pro 2nd. Anything goes, no taxes or permits.

The 2nd should only be taken away by the courts after conviction/due process (habitual offenders, suspects in violent crimes, while on parole/probation etc.)

[280PLUS]

makes me feel a lot better too,,,

:D

oh, and it's always (and i mean that) in my pocket

m

[P95Carry]

Just checking back in ... as I continue to be more than grateful for the responses ........ it gives me great pleasure to read the many positive comments.

I would go so far as to say that ..... were the situation to ever occur, I would willingly assist in a situation where a cop was cornered or outgunned etc (as long as I didn't get taken for BG!! - that's another thread methinks ... hmmm)..... one of the facets to the system whereby there is a mutual interest I feel. We are all actually seeking greater safety.

Sadly, and still thus far ..... is the disparity between states, making it something of a nightmare when travelling far and wide. I may have a long trip coming up and am having to give deep thought as to how I can have some guns with me (hoping for some shoots when visiting) ..... and yet still stay squeeky legal.

The other sad thing mentioned is how .. all too often .... the carry ''no-no's'' can be in just the places where risk to self may just be highest!

[Johnny Guest]

Some 35 years a peace officer, and I was a firearms enthusiast long before that.

I can easily speak for most of my agency as being for it as well. My sheriff gives me time off to renew my CHL instructor certificate and I've taught members of his family in the license class. I teach classes for staff family members, and the boss has detailed me to sign off on on ATF forms for him.

Texas is a Shall-Issue state, and no reason need be given for wanting a license. Our law requires CHL holders to show the license when an officer asks for ID, for any reason. SOP for our deputies is that they do not disarm licensees when encountered, unless there is some compelling reason. The working assumption is that the CHL holder has already undergone a full background check, is a government certified good guy, and there is no reason to inconvenience him/her. If a traffic citation is needed, well, okay, but this doesn't indicate criminal behavior. But, it turns out, unless the violation is something fairly serious, a courtesy warning is often deemed sufficient. :D

I really LIKE the fact that our deputies have several hundred potential backups in the county. (Even if many of 'em seldom actually actually carry a pistol . . . . )

Best,
Johnny

[rebbryan]

i'm not a LEO but plan on being one in a few years

my take on it is i think it'd be safer if everyone who was responsible enough and didn't have a record carried then everytime you roll up to a call the officer would be expecting a gun and would always be more cautious. not saying that a CCW'er would shoot, but the cop does not know you and personally i don't trust anyone i don't know, but i do tend to trust the people at the range faster than an ordinary person. plus if the cops knew there was a good chance there'd be a gun, they might be more "afraid" and get some training and actually be able to hit the skinny side of the barn

[furetto7]

I've been a cop for over thirty years, I've worked in a "May-Issue" state, a "Shall-Issue" state and unfortunantly now in one of the rapidly dwindling number "No-Issue" states, In all that time I have never had any problems with CCW holders, I have found all of the ones I have had both personal and proffessional contact with to be good, law abiding people who are exercising their right to not be a victim. I also must echo the sentiment that if you have a CCW permit, then carry the darn thing, If you don't have one and live in one of the more enlightened states that doesn't overly infringe on the exercise of your rights then get one. Every person who carries CCW protects not only themselves and their loved ones but the general public as well.