why the shortage on Springfield GIs? am I not meant to have a 1911?


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carterbeauford
November 24, 2006, 11:22 PM
I have been wanting to order a stainless GI for the last 8 months. Not sure what the deal is, but 3 dealers have told me they can't get one.

One guy offered to order me a Rock Island for $499, though :scrutiny: another said he'd order a Rock Island but they are junk compared to the Springfield. I said any 1911 is better than no 1911, but am left with two dealers I really don't want to deal with.

Cabelas might still have the one I dry fired the other day, do you think I should just buy it at the store in WV and have it shipped to a dealer in PA? This is my college graduation present and I wish I could just order it and be done with it. I just hate the attitude dealers get, we can't get the gun you want but don't really want to handle transferring it either.

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CDH
November 24, 2006, 11:38 PM
Today at Gander Mountain in Houston, I saw a stainless Springfield 1911 for about $450 brand new, and right next to it was a new blue Taurus PT1911 for right at $500.

I've been thinking about picking up one of the Taurus 1911's because people keep saying how "inexpensive" they are, but when I saw that SS Springfield sitting right next to the Taurus and being sold for less, I figure if I do get another, it will be the Springfield.

The point is, dealers get inventory all the time so just keep looking. If you know you want a particular model, you might want to ask your local favorite dealer to order you one.

Car Knocker
November 24, 2006, 11:42 PM
Today at Gander Mountain in Houston, I saw a stainless Springfield 1911 for about $450 brand new, and right next to it was a new blue Taurus PT1911 for right at $500.
Did they have comparable features?

Rotorflyr
November 25, 2006, 04:18 AM
Not sure why the SS Springers are so hard to come by, so if you find one and have to have it shipped, do it. It shouldn't cost you that much to do.

Also, Rock Island Armory 1911's are FAR from junk, and if you like two tone, check out http://www.classicarms.us (scroll towards the bottom of the page) for one sweet looking 1911 (and a good price as well $359)
I can't say for sure they have any in stock, but shouldn't take em' long to get if they don't.

Rotorflyr
November 25, 2006, 04:19 AM
Car Knocker,
The Springer GI is a no frills 1911, the Taurus has all the bells and whistles on it already.......so no they don't really have comparable features.

Car Knocker
November 25, 2006, 02:08 PM
What I thought. The loaded Taurus is a much better deal than the basic SA.

Lone_Gunman
November 25, 2006, 02:12 PM
Do a search here and you will find quite a few people have had problems with Springfield GI models.

51Cards
November 25, 2006, 02:17 PM
I wonder if maybe SA is devoting production to XDs? My guy tells me they can't get XD/SCs, and they pretty much get everything. So, maybe the GI is waiting on the production schedule?

I saw one of the early-shipment Taurus 1911's. Dry-fired it, thought it was heavy and heavy-handed, compared to the SA GI SS. Lots of goodies, but I think a trigger job might be in some folks' futures.

The SA sights are ... primitive. Like the originals :D .Now, I'm saving to get the thing milled out and fitted with some adjustables. Ones that I can see. :rolleyes:

Old Fuff
November 25, 2006, 02:23 PM
I believe that the XD's are imported as complete guns, and the same may be true of some 1911 models. The main point is that in both cases they are selling everything as fast as they get... or make it. What you see here is a supply vs. demand issue.

AnthonyRSS
November 25, 2006, 02:59 PM
We have sold two SS GIs since (Gander Mountain) has been open in Huntsville. Took a used one in on trade a week ago. Go to a local Gander Mountain and have them get you one. They have inventory from over 100 stores to look through.

Anthony

Auggie4700
November 25, 2006, 08:32 PM
Lone_Gunman "Do a search here and you will find quite a few people have had problems with Springfield GI models."

Quite a few people also like them a bunch. If you have a problem, Springfield will sort it out and reimburse for shipping. Might be why they're tough to find.

david_the_greek
November 25, 2006, 08:41 PM
you are very much meant to have a 1911. I just got my first own (had shot one along time ago that used to be my fathers) to the range after having it for a good two months and I honestly almost cried like a teenage girl. it was hard to be inaccurate. keep up your quest it is well worth it. my own is a kimber, I will never stray from it.

Confederate
November 25, 2006, 09:23 PM
What 1911s are there that work flawlessly right out of the box? There seem to be a lot of them jamming on the range and I'm told that most need work to achieve the utter reliability of the newer generations of pistol. When pitted against the Beretta 92 and Smith & Wesson 9mms in the military trials, the 1911s flunked all the reliability tests.

I think the 1911s are beautiful guns. The Kimbers look rock solid. But when it comes to functioning, I'm not sure there are any of them that I'd trust. I do have a Smith 645 that is completely reliable, and it looks very much like a double action 1911. But I hear a lot of 1911 owners say they have to have their guns worked on to reach a flawless level of reliability.

What's the story?

Who makes the best 1911s right out of the box?

http://rogerbain.com/catalog/images/GC70%201.jpg
The Colt Gold Cup is pricey these days, and beautiful.
Still, they've always jammed now and then.

Lone_Gunman
November 25, 2006, 11:46 PM
Quite a few people also like them a bunch. If you have a problem, Springfield will sort it out and reimburse for shipping. Might be why they're tough to find.


I sent mine back to them twice, and they could never make it reliable. I had equally bad luck with a Springfield Loaded and Micro-Compact.

No more Springfields for me!

Auggie4700
November 26, 2006, 01:15 AM
Sorry for your bad luck......I've had several with no problems that weren't mag or ammo related and soon sorted out with little effort. I just picked up a new TRP that I've only got 300 rds through so far. It did choke on one XTP 185grn early on but hasn't missed a beat since. I don't really like the XTP and won't replace them once I have them shot up. Personally, I wouldn't put any of the guns you listed in between me and a BG nor would I rely on any other makers's 1911s in that price range without extensive reliability work including internals. Might as well spend that money on one of the many Custom Carry guns now made by several builders, including SA.

Shootcraps
November 26, 2006, 02:26 AM
I saw lots of them at the gun show today.

What 1911s are there that work flawlessly right out of the box?

How about my:

Taurus PT1911
Rock Island 1911 (X2)
Colt CCO
Springfield Ultra Compact
Colt Delta Elite (X2)
Springfield Loaded

TimboKhan
November 26, 2006, 02:35 AM
I saw one of the early-shipment Taurus 1911's. Dry-fired it, thought it was heavy and heavy-handed, compared to the SA GI SS. Lots of goodies, but I think a trigger job might be in some folks' futures.

I don't want to start a brand war here, and if someone wants a Springy over a Taurus, then more power to them. However, I have been extraordinarily pleased with my Taurus 1911, and the trigger is delightful. I suppose that trigger feel is sort of a personal thing, but mine is crisp and even, and not heavy in the least.

CDH
November 26, 2006, 08:17 AM
What 1911s are there that work flawlessly right out of the box?

I'd say that MOST made by any of the "good" brands do, but there are always going to be individual pistols that need some attention.

Since the gauntlet was thrown, I'll say that both of my Commanders, a Colt XSE LW stainless and a Colt "standard model" Stainless have worked flawlessly right out of the box. Neither one has ever coughed on any ammo used whether ball or HP.

I was "this close" to buying that $450 SA GI, especially since I have no interest in the "loaded" features of the PT1911.

Carter

Bill B.
November 26, 2006, 11:00 AM
1911 Springfields in stainless are available In KY. Must be a sectional type thing if you are unable to come up with one. They are also several for sale right now on GunBroker.com. Good Luck!

wally
November 26, 2006, 11:03 AM
One guy offered to order me a Rock Island for $499

I'd find a new place to shop, pronto! Around here they run <$330 brand new at gun shows. Fantastic guns for the money, I've one I put a J-point red dot on and its got about 10000 rounds thru it now (mostly Wolf, the rest my reloads).

If you want a basic WWII style 1911 and can't find the Springfield GI model the RIA is well worth buying and you'll have some extra cash left over for ammo. If you want a GI style gun in stainless you are going to have to wait for the Springer or try to find a Colt stainless "Government" model, although mine came with better than the GI "nub" sights so it may not have the "look" you seem to want.

--wally.

1911 guy
November 26, 2006, 12:10 PM
Springer G.I.'s are hard to find because they are the best "base model" gun out there. As such, they are getting snapped up at a very rapid pace. Despite what fans of other handgun types say, the 1911 is still a BIG player in sales. Demand isn't going away, 95 years after it's adoption.

XD production has no effect on 1911 production. The XD is made wholly in Croatia while the G.I. is made in Brazil.

The Rock Island Armory guns are getting recurring high marks from those who own them. I wouldn't hesitate to buy one as a shooter.

As for reliability, I have owned four 1911's, one of which, a ParaOrdnance, wasn't dead reliable. I have shot many others, both in the Navy and pistols owned by others. They have all been reliable. Stay away from chopped down sizes and your cousin Billy at his kitchen table with a dremel tool and you'll be fine.

doubleg
November 26, 2006, 12:51 PM
If your going to buy the pistol in WV and have it shipped to PA why not just buy it in PA. Sales tax is only about 1% less down there. Here is my gun store/ range that I have been going to for a decent amount of time, they are honest kind people. :cool:

http://www.anthonyarms.com/

Its about 5 miles south of Pittsburgh. So it shouldn't be very far out of your way.

carterbeauford
November 26, 2006, 09:25 PM
I'd find a new place to shop, pronto.

I did. Granted two days before buck season was not a great time to hit a gun shop, but still. I wanted to look at a S&W 22A, but when I told the associate I would likely not be buying anything today, he moved on to the next customer. Gun World in Harrisville, PA. To their credit, this was not the same associate who I bought a PT145 from about a year and a half ago. Since then their prices have gone up substantially. I doubt I'll ever go back there.

Springer G.I.'s are hard to find because they are the best "base model" gun out there.

That's what I wanted to know.

I don't want to start a brand war here, and if someone wants a Springy over a Taurus, then more power to them.

Taurus totally slipped my mind, I need to make a couple more phone calls in that case.

the pistolero
November 26, 2006, 09:48 PM
The Taurus 1911 in an excellent deal for all its features, if you can find one. :D I would have liked to get a more upscale variant such as one of the Springfield Custom Loaded models as my first 1911, but I had the same problem you did with finding one (same with the Mil-Spec) so I ended up getting the one my FFL had sitting in his safe that he'd gotten in some kind of deal he'd made. I didn't (and don't) think I "just settled" for it, though...it's been a good gun and as my first 1911 it'll always have a special place in my collection.

51Cards
November 27, 2006, 12:50 AM
Ah, one of the (few) joys of living in an area where gun's are (generally and ludicrously) regarded poorly. Here, EVERYthing is available :D . If all you guys were here, there'd be nothing left for me ...
:)

mljdeckard
November 27, 2006, 01:16 PM
I wasn't aware that SA 1911s were ever IN trials against Beretta or S&W autos for a military contract. The contract that was awarded to Beretta was for a double-action 9mm pistol. In any event, that was over 20 years ago, and every pistol category has improved greatly, including 'vintage' design SA autos. Kimber didn't exactly fall apart in the trials for LAPD SWAT. In 1992, I switched out my unit's 1911A1s on WWII frames for new Berettas. I IMMEDIATELY had to start sending them back to support for problems, failure to feed, failure to extract, and soldiers taking them apart, playing with them, and damaging springs. I remember thinking, "These things aren't going to be around too long."

My Kimber has functioned flawlessly for three years. I had a Para Ordnance P-12 that I didn't shoot very much, but I never had a problem with it. I had a Thompson/Auto Ordnance 1911A1 that was junk.

GI 1911s are made to function with one kind of ammo. I'm going to suppose that a lot of these problems arise when people use non factory ammo that is something besides 230 FMJ. If this is not the case, then perhaps Springfield's quality needs to be questioned. I did my homework before I bought my Kimber, I have seen no reason to switch to anything else. I hate homework. $630 NIB.

Walkalong
November 27, 2006, 01:50 PM
I traded a stainless Colt series 80 for a parkerized Springfield in the 80's and have never regretted it. (I know, the Colt fans are cringing - think of it this way - I made one of them very happy.) Anyway It was 100% dependable out of the box and never let me down and I shot it a lot for a long time. (Sold it to my brother and am trying to convince him to sell it back.):banghead:

I have 2 Kimbers now and a loaded 5" Springfield. Two are 99%+ reliable and the 3" CDP is 100% reliable. The 4" CDP has an external extractor and it had to be replaced, but other than that and a little polishing here and there they are box stock. Not bad.

Any company can put out a bad gun, but all the big ones will make it right. I agree with the above post. The GI Springer is a great base gun. Don't give up on it. The reason I want mine back is it was so dependable. Thought I could spend more money and get a better gun. More accurate, but not neccesarily more dependable. I can't shoot that good anymore anyway. Old eyes are a B#*#*

foghornl
November 27, 2006, 02:20 PM
Don't own a Stainless Steel model, but I do have a Champion and a GI-45. Had a magazine issue with the Champion (wrong spring), but got that sorted out with assistance from THR's own "1911Tuner".

After the mag-spring issue, no other problems with either one. The GI-45 even works with a lot of different defense ammo...Golden Sabres, WinWhiteBox HP..anything I feed it.

cavman
November 27, 2006, 03:13 PM
I just checked Bud's

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/index.php/cPath/21_24

And he has one for $428.


cavman

Hero Gear
November 28, 2006, 10:39 AM
SA has been a complete PITA this year.
Their order fill rate must be below 50% at best :cuss:

It doesnt matter if I check inventory with the 3-4 largest gun distributors in the industry, or if I source direct. Bottomline: SA is having a horrible time filling orders and keeping product flowing to the market.
(if fact, I lost a very large LE dept. order for XDs because SA couldnt deliver in less than SIX MONTHS!)

Part of these problems may be a result of limitations in production.
Perhaps things are good for SA, and they are selling more guns than they can produce. Good for them.

The OTHER problem (from a dealer's standpoint) is that SA has had some very agressive dealer promotions over the past year (I can think of 4 off the top of my head) that many web, bigbox, and garage based FFLs have bought in to in a very big way.
They then turn around, and whore themselves (and the guns) out via the web at below dealer costs.

Result?
1. kinks in the supply chain. non-traditional "dealers" buy in big on these promotions, stock pile guns, and then flood the market at super low prices.

2. traditional gun STORES (yeah, the kind you grew up going to with your dad) has a very hard time stocking Springers for their customers to come in and actually touch, see, and feel.
When asked to special order a Springer by a potential customer, that dealer has an almost impossible time finding that gun for their customer.

Case in point:
Today (28 Nov 2006) if you were to check real-time inventory of two very large distributors (Ellett and RSR, each who do hundreds of millions in sales each year) for SA 1911s, the ONLY guns that actually come up as available are a few TRPs.
So if 2 of the largest players in the industry can do nothing but offer a few TRPs to their dealers, it doesnt take a genius to figure out something in the system isnt working as it should.

/rant :banghead:


Anyway, good luck in your seach for a GI or Milspec gun :) These guns have been very popular with people wanting a quality no frills 1911, and those wanting a great platform to build their dream gun on.

carterbeauford
December 1, 2006, 07:15 PM
Thought long and hard and finally orderd a Rock Island from Classic Arms for $320. That will leave me some money to play with in the future, I am planning on buying crates of milsurps once my C&R arrives, and a .22 target pistol. Read nothing but good things about the Rock Island and too many mixed reviews on the GI to pay $500 for one right now.

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