Large frame .380 pistols?


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Rescue
November 25, 2006, 10:29 PM
Hi, I am looking for a large .380 pistol. I definately do not plan to ever carry this one, it is just that I have nothing in this caliber. I took a close look into the Taurus PT938, but Id like it bigger than that. Another Brazilian company, Imbel, makes a .380 1911, but these seem somewhat hard to find.

Do you happen to know about any big .380s I may be missing?

Thanks in advance.

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Coronach
November 25, 2006, 10:35 PM
Browning BDA.

Mike

Rescue
November 25, 2006, 10:39 PM
Thanks Coronach, Im reading about the BDA right now.

Keep em coming boys, what is the largest .380 you know about?

Cousin Mike
November 25, 2006, 10:45 PM
The Glock 25 is pretty big for a .380. Might be around the same size as a BDA.

Dollar An Hour
November 25, 2006, 10:47 PM
CZ-83!

Great trigger and comfy ergos. Typical CZ accuracy.

GRIZ22
November 25, 2006, 11:01 PM
I believe the Glock 380 is the same size as the 26 and not available to other than LE in the US. The Beretta 84 and Browning BDA are the same gun except the Beretta has an open top slide. I had a M84 then replaced it with S&W 6906. They were both about the same size.

Rescue
November 25, 2006, 11:04 PM
Good suggestions. The Glock 25 is the same size as the Glock 19, 26 and 33, if I am not mistaken. I also remember checking out that CZ on the web, it seems every .380 pistol has that pocket pistol ring to it, and I just cant stand pocket pistols. Maybe there is simply no .380 guns suitable for my criteria. On the other hand, for what reason would someone make a big .380, right?

This is gonna be a lot harder than I thought.

Froggy
November 25, 2006, 11:08 PM
CZ-83! Great trigger and comfy ergos. Typical CZ accuracy.

Ditto. The only thing I don't like about my CZ-83 is that it is too big for its caliber. The whole idea behind .380 is to get a small, easy to hide pistol, eh? Every once in a while I consider selling it because it is "too big for its caliber." But I like the high-cap mag and comfortable ergonomics, so it is still in the stable instead of the trading block.

bulbboy
November 25, 2006, 11:12 PM
Heres my Browning BDA
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f284/kevinmichaeldick/BROWNINGBUMPWEB.jpg
and the Beretta Version
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f284/kevinmichaeldick/25976.jpg

Rescue
November 25, 2006, 11:20 PM
The whole idea behind .380 is to get a small, easy to hide pistol, eh?
Yeah, I know. A friend of mine actually has the Brazilian .380 1911, he hasnt shot a lot with it, but the thing really is "full size", if you catch my drift.

Great pic bulbboy, that ti blue bump caught my eye.

bulbboy
November 25, 2006, 11:28 PM
Thanks!

wally
November 25, 2006, 11:29 PM
Beretta 86 Cheetah. My wife loves hers, broke my heart ot pay $450 for a .380, but last few gun shows when I could find them they were more like $550 now, ouch!

The CZ83 is much more reasonably priced and a great gun, but its easy to find 9mm guns that are smaller so it may be what you want.

--wally.

Rescue
November 26, 2006, 12:45 AM
The CZ83 is much more reasonably priced and a great gun, but its easy to find 9mm guns that are smaller so it may be what you want.
I am not really looking for a 9mm and I certainly dont want it small. This is how it started: I was talking to a friend and I casually mentioned that if someone manufactured a sizeable 380 cal pistol, Id be in for one. He said he thought HK made the USP in .380. I said "Oh really?" eventually walked away from the table with the image of that nice USP in my head. He was mistaken. There was never a .380 USP (although it seems there was an USPc in .380 (http://www.gundirectory.com/more.asp?gid=20091&gun=Pistol), it is not listed on HKs current website).

It set me on a quest for a .380 in a similar size to the USPs 7.64" overall length. The only thing I could find was the Imbel MD1, with 7.6":
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q308/Rescue_album/pistola.jpg

This .380 is what Im looking for. I want one, but it is hard to find.

After I did my homework, I thought I might ask you guys. I wanted to check what other choices might be available, but you have confirmed my initial thoughts: there is simply no market for a non-compact, non-backup, non-wife .380 pistol.

sabre452
November 26, 2006, 01:01 AM
2nd vote for the Beretta 86 Cheetah. The tip up barrel is neat. I've had mine for several years and its a nice summer carry piece.

wally
November 26, 2006, 09:59 AM
I wanted to check what other choices might be available, but you have confirmed my initial thoughts: there is simply no market for a non-compact, non-backup, non-wife .380 pistol.

Pretty much sums it up. Now if .380 ammo was significantly cheaper than 9mm ammo I'd bet it'd be different -- lots of physically large .22LR pistols to choose from.

I bet you could get a 9mm or .38Super 1911 and have it re-barreled for .380. RIA makes a .38Super model that can be found <$400.

--wally.

usp9
November 26, 2006, 10:37 AM
The largest and heaviest .380 that comes to mind is the HK P7 K3, similar to the famous P7 line. Some of these are quite costly and hard to find, so are probably not under your consideration. Here is a link http://hkpro.com/p7k3.htm

Next to this in size would be the Berettas (three to choose from), the CZ83, and the Browning. These are all basically the same size and weight. Of these my personal favorite is the Beretta 84, big grip, 13 round mag, chrome lined barrel, very reliable and easy to locate and buy.

atblis
November 26, 2006, 11:48 AM
Why couldn't you fire a 380 from a 38 SA? Wouldn't it just headspace off of the rim instead of the case mouth? I guess you might need weaker springs, but other than that...?

gunny1022
November 26, 2006, 11:48 AM
Mauser HSc ---heavy, built like a watch

BillinNH
November 26, 2006, 01:00 PM
You can get a Makarov in 380 if you look around. Or get one in 9x18 and get a 380 barrel from Makarov.com. It's a great pistol and a perfect size/weight for the 380 round.

Also consider the SIG 232 and the Walther PPK or PPK/s in 380.

Bill

The Lone Haranguer
November 26, 2006, 01:06 PM
I have a Beretta 86 - although it is more of a "fun"/collector gun than a "working" carry gun - and would recommend it as well as its littermates the 84 and 85.

Cousin Mike
November 26, 2006, 01:09 PM
Did a little digging about the Glock 25. It's not available in the U.S., but not because it's only for law enforcement (I knew it... I kept thinking, why would they make a gun in .380 for LE?). The Glock 25 is only distributed in countries where civilians are not allowed to own guns chambered in the same caliber as the police.

GRIZ22
November 26, 2006, 02:12 PM
Glock used to list their 380 for LE only I don't know if they still do. I think it has something to do with the points required for importation to the US. 22Walther TPHs used to be imported for LE only as they didn't make the points foe import. Thats why Beretta started making the 950 and other small guns here. Taurus does the same thing. I know in Italy civialians can't own guns in military calibers. I know some US fedral agnets who were assigned to Italy and before they left they turned in their 9mm and were issued 40 SWs. Go figure.

ugaarguy
November 26, 2006, 03:55 PM
my initial thoughts: there is simply no market for a non-compact, non-backup, non-wife .380 pistol.

Non-wife? So I suppose women can't shoot big manly calibers? Hmmm, THR Moderator Emeritus PAX (Kathy Jackson) is a long time handgun instructor and shoots whatever she darn well pleases. THR member Springmom has a Ruger SRH in 44 Mag that she shoots pretty darn well http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=235543. I reckon I should just PM these two ladies, and get their respective husbands' e-mail adresses. Then I'll write them to let each know his wife is shooting too much gun, and each of them needs to buy a large frame .380 for his little wifey :rolleyes: .

Seriously there's more too it than "non-compact, non-backup..." in a large frame .380. It could be a nice gun to step up from rim fire tio centerfire for a new shooter. We're all posting here, so unless you're using voice recognition software you're typing on a keyboard & using a mouse or other pointing device. That could cause carpal-tunnel syndrome, a hand/wrist injury. Sometimes folks get hand, wrist, forearm, uuper arm, or even shoulder or neck injuries that make running larger calibers painful. People get arthritis, and people age too. My grandad is in his late 70s and has a CZ-24 (big, heavy, locked breech .380) that my great uncle brought back from WWII. Even in his old age with hands that have been torn up by malignant melanoma he shoots that .380 well and comfortably. Fact is many folks run into problems that make them unable to use a large caliber or ultra small/light handgun. These are situations where a large frame mid/light caliber handgun is perfect. The large for their caliber CZs, Brownings, and Berettas in .380 already mentioned in this thread are excellent examples. In a revolver the old K frame S&Ws, Colt Official Police, and like guns in .38 Special, and .32 Long are good examples. Even without physical limitations these light recoiling, easy handling guns are just plain fun to shoot :D . You've got to keep your options open and get a gun that fits what you want or many times need.

sm
November 26, 2006, 05:12 PM
Browning BDA.
Is my favorite. Then again I recall being not much taller that a kitchen table, the tin can of Browning Gun Oil and this neat box with Three Browning Automatics in 9mm, .380 and 25 ACP in it. These were NEAT! I got to shoot these too...Yes I am special, are you not glad I shared? :p

These BDA's, and Tip up Beretta's in .380 are - that great of a gun! Period. They have pointability, accurate as all get out, have character and soul, history, proven history, easy to hit what aiming at, reliable, Neato, Pretty, Awesome and Envy factors...etc.

Folks with physical limits can shoot these very well, be it a temporary limit on physical abilities due to injury, or surgery, or more permanent one such as amputation or birth defect.

The tip up version is extremely good for the physical limited persons, of all sizes , ages, or either gender.

Just like I have offered the Caveat to not hand someone a 28 gauge shotgun, especially letting girlfreind, wife, teenage daughter handle, and being more stupid , letting them shoot it...

This medium frame .380 such as a BDA or Tip up Beretta will most assured get you in trouble. I do not care if one is male or female, and the other person wanting to see and shoot your BDA or Tip up Beretta is male, female, young or old - you can be assured, this platform and in this caliber is going to illicit all sorts of "oohs" and "ah's" , smiles, grins, offers to buy it from you, upset no more ammo to shoot, handling, drooling, Internet searches,and...

Oh heck! Just too dang fun to stir up trouble at times! I admit this, nothing wrong with it, somewhere on my Birth Certificate it says:

Steve
Have Trouble - Will Travel

pax, Barbara, Springmom, Medgrl...all these ladies we have on board - Hey, you feel brave enough to tell them they cannot shoot one, .380 out of this platform is not a good match or idea - knock yourself out.
I am going to sell tickets watching this exchange.
Especially the part "what do you mean we ran out of ammo, are you stupid or what?".

Ammo getting place is 3 miles --> that way. Hurry up, and bring back Chocolate while you are at it. ;)

19-3Ben
November 26, 2006, 05:28 PM
The Sig p232 my not be as large as some, but it is larger than some others. It is comfortable to carry, accurate to shoot, ok for recoil, and reliable.
I carry mine every day, but would also have no problem using as a range gun. I have long fingers, and with a Hogue finger groove grip on it, the gun fills my hand beautifully.
So long story short: is it the largest? no. But it's not a pocket gun either, and is worthy of being considered along with anything else you look at

Rescue
November 26, 2006, 05:37 PM
Non-wife? So I suppose women can't shoot big manly calibers? Hmmm, THR Moderator Emeritus PAX (Kathy Jackson) is a long time handgun instructor and shoots whatever she darn well pleases. THR member Springmom has a Ruger SRH in 44 Mag that she shoots pretty darn well http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=235543. I reckon I should just PM these two ladies, and get their respective husbands' e-mail adresses.
Of course women can (and do) shoot whatever they want. What I meant by a "wife gun" is that many women are not confortable shooting big caliber guns, Id go as far as saying that women are an absolute minority among all firearm enthusiasts. It is also common for a more experienced husband to help his wife choosing a pistol. Women have smaller hands, smaller frame pistols (like the .380s on todays market) fit their hands more confortably than in the hands of a man.

You just read too much into my "non-wife" comment.

Seriously there's more too it than "non-compact, non-backup..." in a large frame .380. [...] Fact is many folks run into problems that make them unable to use a large caliber or ultra small/light handgun.[...]You've got to keep your options open and get a gun that fits what you want or many times need.
I appreciate your comments. My point is that, for me personally, all .380s currently in the market come in small, light, backup configurations, and I happen to dislike that kind of pistols. Preference for grip and frame sizes are largely a personal issue, so far all the kind suggestions I was given in this thread are smaller than what I am looking for. Me and others have pointed out that because of the inherent characteristics of the 380acp, perhaps there is little reason for a big pistol in that caliber, which brings us back to my difficulty in finding one.

ugaarguy
November 26, 2006, 07:36 PM
Of course women can (and do) shoot whatever they want. What I meant by a "wife gun" is that many women are not confortable shooting big caliber guns, Id go as far as saying that women are an absolute minority among all firearm enthusiasts. It is also common for a more experienced husband to help his wife choosing a pistol. Women have smaller hands, smaller frame pistols (like the .380s on todays market) fit their hands more confortably than in the hands of a man.

You just read too much into my "non-wife" comment.
I appreciate your comments. My point is that, for me personally, all .380s currently in the market come in small, light, backup configurations, and I happen to dislike that kind of pistols. Preference for grip and frame sizes are largely a personal issue, so far all the kind suggestions I was given in this thread are smaller than what I am looking for. Me and others have pointed out that because of the inherent characteristics of the 380acp, perhaps there is little reason for a big pistol in that caliber, which brings us back to my difficulty in finding one.

I didn't mean to read too much into the comments, and I'm sorry that I did. On the other hand I've seen too many comments from women who were put off by folks thinking that they can't something (many times not even gun related) just because they're female. I've also seen both men and women with very small and very big hands, many times not necessarily related to body size/build either. As far as a male dominated shooting culture I think some of has to do with how the gun culture specifically developed in the course of history, and also more complex socialogical issues in the overall human culture. Of course, I'm not a Pshycolgist, nor a Sociologist, so I'm a bit over my head on those areas.

I see your desire for a non-convential, by current thinking, .380 pistol. My thoughts again, involve our current "magnum culture" where we're trying to cram the biggest hottset cartridge we can into the smallest and lightest gun possible. Ruger's SRH Alaskan line, the S&W Survival Kit X Frame snubbies & PD series scandium revolvers come to mind. Sadly we've seen a loss of variety of guns like Colt's Officers target & Ace (dedicated 22 LR full size 1911 type pistol), the S&W K-22 series, and 22 LR or lighter centerfire chambered fullsize handguns as a result of this "magnum mentality". Unfortunately this has limited your options in a larger .380 pistol. The pistols mentioned in this thread are certainly heavweights for a .380 when the offering from Kel-Tec, SeeCamp, Rohrbaugh, NAA, and Kahr in .380, 9mm, and even a few larger chamberings, are compared.

Of course we can't ignore operating mechanisms either. Most fullsize pistols are tilt breech or otherwise locked breech designs, and most .380 and smaller pistols are blowback. It seems most folks want a .22LR top end for cheap plinking if they opt for a bbl & slide conversion. Everything just adds up against large frame .380s. Even if Glock could import their mid size .380s (GCA '68 aside) I wonder if they'd have enough demand that they would. I think you may have to compromise and get the biggest of the smallish medium .380s that you can find. Good luck in the hunt.

Flopsy
November 27, 2006, 06:23 PM
I carry my Beretta 84F often.

Actually, I had it at the range yesterday, and its accuracy always makes me smile. I suck, so when I was practicing headshots at 15 feet and I got 15 out of 17 rounds through the head I was pretty happy.

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