[goon]

I want to eventually get a pocket gun, and I think I will end up with one of these two.
Anyone have experience with both or either?
I was thinking of the NAA 22mag or .17hmr with the large rubber grips and dovetailed rear sight.

[yzguy]

I love my P-32....

check out
http://www.ktog.org/vbulletin/
and
http://www.1bad69.com/keltec/index.htm

[P95Carry]

We had a very good P-32 discussion recently .. sorry, can't find link right now ...... but after going thru that rather feel that if I can run the extra Bucks ... I may well decide on NAA Guardian in the end ........ not so much cos P-32 no good .... more that i get impression that the NAA will provide a quality edge and probably better reliability and longevity.

I would favor the 32acp myself.

[MikeJ]

I have the NAA Guardian .32 and am very happy with it. Just a suggestion, if you decide on the KelTec P32 I would wait and get the KelTec 3AT (.380). Basically it will be the same size gun in a little bit of a better caliber without the issue of rimlock to contend with. Regards, Mike

[agony]

....and still have the P32.

The NAA32 Guardian was my first pocket pistol. It functioned well, but was a horrible pistol in terms of shootablility. Due to it's direct blowback design, it had a lot of trigger slap that started to hurt my trigger finger after a box of practice ammo. It was also quite heavy for it's size, and felt that for the sheer torture of it all I could be better served with one of those featherweight S&W revolvers. The NAA made my front pocket sag, even with good leather. The NAA was never very accurate, as the sights were quite horrid. Hence relegated it to a last-resort up-close BUG.

Then I got a P32....did everything the NAA was supposed to do for me. Lightweight, flat, easy to carry as a BUG, sweet shooting, and surprisingly accurate. A lot of horror stories about the P32, but mine has digested a case of ammo without a hitch. With that in mind, I don't practice with it much anymore in case something does happen to it.

[Dave R]

I got a P-32. Glad I did. Have not tried the NAA, but most reports say they are not as accurate. Also very slow to reloard. I'd rather have 8X .32 and a spare mag than 5X .22 mag.

My P-32 shoots some pretty nice groups. Sights were well-reglated from the factory. And the pistol, spare mag and pocket holster are the size and shape of a wallet. Goes anywhere. What's not to like?

[CZ-75]

I was thinking of the NAA 22mag or .17hmr with the large rubber grips and dovetailed rear sight.

If you're serious about a reliable self-defense gun, rimfires are out. Way easier to get a "dud" round with poorly spun primer compound than find a poorly primed centerfire round. It's not about cheap ammo.

[Double Naught Spy]

If your pocket gun is for some form of self defense, then why would you want a single action revolver that holds only 5 rounds of an anemic caliber? The .22 mag is better than .22 lr and .22 lr better than .17 hmr, but still not nearly enough.

I am not a fan of the Kel-Tec, but it does offer more rounds of a larger caliber and can be reloaded much faster than the NAA mini, assuming you get one that is reliable.

[gino]

I don't think you should be looking at a 22 when there are a few very good 32 autos out now. I love my NAA Minirevolvers, but they don't hold a candle to a good 32 auto.

FWIW, I have a NAA Guardian and a Seecamp. I just can't get over the cheapness of the P32. It just isn't the gun for me.

[blue86buick]

of course..you have to consider the minor point that ammo (practice, plinking, and carry ammo) for anything in .22LR is dirt cheap compared to any centerfire.

[Oleg Volk]

Got both (P32 and 2" NAA "black widow") -- P32 wins on every count: handling, rate of fire, reloading, chambering, accuracy, noise level...NAA has sentimental value.

[casual]

i also say go with the P32

it's definitely not a good looking gun and i have experienced some rimlock problems, but i haven't yet done the recommended "fluff and buff"

you cannot beat the size, weight and concealability of the P32 and i've found it quite accurate despite the poor sights

a P32 is indispensible where concealability is critical

i just wish some other gun makers would step up to the plate and produce a similar size gun with a little more attention to detail

as the market currently stands, there is no equal to the p32 in a mouse gun

that said - i agree with Mike - if you dont need it right away, wait for the 3AT

casual

[DDGator]

I too have had both.

I love the NAA .22 Mag mini-revolver -- its a high quality piece. I found it very easy to shoot accurately -- with the oversize rubber grips you mentioned.

It is, however, not that easy to shoot fast. Also -- you are really limited to the five rounds b/c reloading is not an option. Finally, once you install the oversize grips -- its not any easier to conceal that a P-32.

I say -- P-32 all the way for defensive purposes.

[outfieldjack]

Only had 1 or 2 FTE on about 600 rounds.......

[WonderNine]

I don't think you should be looking at .22's and .32's when there is the 9mm Kahr PM9/MK9 and the upcoming Rohrbaugh. :evil:

[benEzra]

I bought a NAA .22LR mini-revolver some years ago as a "snake gun" when we lived out in the boonies (loaded it with CCI shotshells).

I sometimes loaded it with CCI Stingers and carried it as a backup gun to my 9mm, and occasionally even carried it as a primary CCW when I was in a hurry and didn't want to take the time to deal with the 9mm carry gear.

I recently sold it when I realized I couldn't think of a single self-defense situation where I would feel confident with it. I wasn't confident hitting accurately with it beyond 10 yd or so, and the ballistics out of that 1.25" barrel are so wimpy that even if you DID hit the criminal and he had a knife, he'd have plenty of time to kill you and then visit the ER himself to get patched up (unless you were lucky and got a CNS hit, but how are you going to do THAT with a low-mass bullet going less than 800 fps, out of a gun with only rudimentary sights)? Follow-up shots are also extremely slow--I could put 8 or 9 9mm into a target in the time it took to shoot the mini-revolver twice.

Having said that, a .22 mini-revolver is far better than nothing and are extremely well made (and it worked great as a snake gun), but I would be FAR more confident in any self-defense situation with a good .32.

[George Hill]

NAA Guardian in .32NAA

For a mouse gun, it really and truly rocks.

[SodaPop]

NAA Guardian in .32NAA


What's the price range of these guns?

I fired Mal H's 380 but I don't know the model? What was that Mal?


I may end up with something smaller than my Sig 239.

[drod]

The ultimate pocket pistol:

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid58/pa232a626d1255016aaed27ff620b15b8/fc658cee.jpg

[22luvr]

I've owned 3 minis and a P32. They're like comparing apples and oranges. The mini is a thing of beauty, finished off in SS with jewel-like precision. Beautiful workmanship and attention to detail. I never-never had a malfunction of any kind with any of my minis. My current one has the aftermarket oversize rubber boot grips for better security and accuracy. Drawbacks? Cock-and-fire single action is slow and requires practice; lack of useable sights, questionable self-defense round, slow to reload.

I carried my P32 for three years and it too was 100% reliable. It's not going to win any beauty contests; workmanship and materials are what's to be expected with an inexpensive mass-produced item. With 100,000+ units out there, you've heard the stories about lemons. If you get a really good one (and I think most of them are) you've got a quick-drawing, DA semi-auto with a capacity of 8, light, small, thin, and you can carry an extra mag and hardly know the whole package is in your pocket. I found mine easy to handle and shoot accurately with very little recoil.

For pure self-defense, I'd opt for the P32 because of it's quickness at getting into the shooting mode over the NAA mini. Because of it's size, it is the quickest drawing pocket gun I've ever owned, a vital must for a self-defense weapon and very close to a revolver in it's operational simplicity.

Hope this helps a bit.........................

[OEF_VET]

I love my P32, but wouldn't rule out buying a NAA .22 for fun at the range. However, for self-defense, there's no way you'd find me relying on a single-action, 5-shot .22 when I can just as easily carry a semi-auto, 8-shot .32. Of course, a .32 isn't a 9mm, but the P32 is just about invisible in my pocket.

Frank

[Handy]

Personally, I'd buy whichever one you think you'll actually carry.

I used to have an MK9. Great concealed defense gun, or so I thought. But I quickly realized that given the light trigger, it required a holster. It ended up being just as big a pain to carry as a Glock or P7. So I sold it and bought an American Arms TPH copy in .22LR, which I DO carry in a pocket.

My main beef with the P32 is that the trigger is too light for pocket carry. A pocket holster or condition 3 addresses that, but the tinier Mini might make you more likely to carry.

Or consider pepper spray and a Spyderco. They're all marginal.

[GoldenLoki]

I have a couple of each. Kel-Tec P32 gets carried, NAA Minis are for novelty and range fun.

Why the P32 is carried: flat profile, DAO, bigger hole, more accurate, easier to retain in a scuffle, much faster to reload.

GL

[senior]

buying a guardian .32 and need to know if i am limited in anyway to a certain .32 round to use, I have a box of Remington .32 in 88 gr and are these fine to use in the NAA guardian .32? If possible i'd prefer to receive replay to that question via e-mail to : manofleasure2000@yahoo.com

[diyj98]

Senior,

I sent you a direct email, but my NAA has been 100% with everything I've tried in it. It's all steel and much better made than the KelTecs.

[MCgunner]

My NAA .22 mini in folding "holster grip" is one of the most useful guns I have. Killed everything from feral dogs to snakes to a few rabbits because, well, it's what I had on me. It folds up so small and is so easy to carry, it's just always there, like a good jack knife.

For primary self defense, though, I'd spring for a P3AT and get a gun as small and handy as the P32 in a more serious caliber. I consider .380 the basement in useful self defense loads. .32 has never impressed me as much more than a glorified .25. I've never owned one, though, and I know lots of people have carried 'em over the years. I just feel when you can carry a .380 just as easily, why settle for less?

[warmrain]

MikeJ,

Can you (or someone else) describe "rim lock" and why it is a problem with 32 ACP and not 380 ACP or 9mm?

BTW, my NAA Guardian 32 ACP has been a perfect performer.

[dust_101]

Only issue with the NAA Mini Revolvers, the open back design of the cyl leaves those rimfires exposed to something going *doink* on the cartridge then something else going *BANG* into your leg. Happened to a customer out here, shot himself in the leg with his NAA mini while trying to get pocket change out in the grocery store.

Surprised everyone around him, especially himself.

[P95Carry]

That is true as a potential risk - but I have to say it would be a most unusual event to hit a rim hard enough - IMO. Something to be aware of for sure.

I carry mine in a vest pocket with nothing else next to it and have no concerns. I do like this generation of the gun where the carry position is a safety notch on cylinder.

[warmrain]

The baby Browning (.25 ACP) loaded with Magsafe or Glasser is a contender for the vest pocket BUG along with the NAA minnies in 22 short and 22 LR.

New from about $450 http://precisionsmallarms.com

Also the Bauer is sometimes available on gunsamerica.com from as low as a couple hundred.

[Alan Fud]

Neither the Kel-Tec P32 nor NAA Mini would be my first choice for a back-up gun. How about the NAA Guardian in .32ACP?

And those PSA's in .25ACP look mighty nice if you're gonna go that small.

[warmrain]

Agreed Alan,

I've got both. While the machining and finish of the NAA G.32 is not as spectacular as the LWS32 it has a couple advantages, conventional magazine release placement, non-sensitivity to ammo and availability. I have had mine for years and it has been flawless.

I also have two version of the baby Browning. The PSA edition (made under license from FN in Belgium) is first rate. With Magsafe or Glasser it is pretty effective I have been advised.

Sometimes the NAA is the BUG and the Baby is a terciary BUG. Sometimes in summer the NAA is primary and the BB is BUG.

The other version of the Browning I have is a Bauer in stainless, AFAIK the only stainless version. They are available (e.g. gunsamerica.com) from about $100 for a beater with no box and one mag to about $350 for a LNIB with 2 magazines. I bought at the high end and I am very pleased.

It is interesting to note that the PSA parts are so exactly made that they are suitable replacements for the Bauer and the true baby Browning. I have replaced the springs and the firing pin of the Bauer with PSA parts with great success...

[pocketgun]

With Magsafe or Glasser it is pretty effective I have been advised.

I used to buy that argument too, mostly because I read it in the gun mags all the time back in the 1990s. IMO you have been lied to by people trying to sell some very expensive yet ineffective ammo.

I own a PSP-25 (same as the PSA-25). I never carry it anymore as my Kel-Tec P-3AT weighs the same amount loaded as the .25, and is actually a fair amount thinner. I like .25s, especially old ones, but I really think you would be much better served by the .380 if you ever needed it for self-defense. I suspect you will find it is just as easy to pocket carry as well.

[warmrain]

I'd sure like to see some definitive testing done with the Magsafe and Glasser in gelatin or...?!

Yea, the PSP-25, PSA-25 and Kassner are all really the same pistol and of course all exact (except for name) copies of the "baby" Browning (as is the Bauer in stainless).

I like the BB for its extremely small size and ease of carry as a BUG or even terciary bug. For near the same size I prefer (and own) a NAA Guardian in 32.

Now I'm thinking for the same size as the NAA, I should be considering a LWS380 (if only I could find one!) or perhaps the Rohrbaugh R9.

Say pocketgun, How do you do the quoted message? I see no obvious way...

[mtnbkr]

I used to own a P32. The gun was good and did what it was supposed to do. I sold it because I wanted the money for something else and I'm more of a revolver guy anyway (it was my only semiauto). If I were looking for another small pocket/backup gun, I would either get the P3AT or the Guardian 380. Unfortunately, neither were available when I bought my P32. Around here, 380 is cheaper and you have more choices in ammo.

I like the NAA minirevolvers, but not as a SD piece. One day, I'll own one, but only as a "fun" gun. I'm just weird enough to want an engraved one with ivory grips. :scrutiny:

I'd carry a 22lr before I carried a 25acp. If nothing else, you could afford to practice A LOT with the 22lr. IMO, you need to do that with any of the mousegun calibers.

Chris

[pocketgun]

Say pocketgun, How do you do the quoted message? I see no obvious way...

Here is the formula: {QUOTE="username"]Text of the message.{/QUOTE]

Just change the "{" to "[".

My buddy has a Bauer and there are subtle differences from what I can tell aside from the stainless steel construction. The quality on the Bauer doesn't seem quite as high - his sights were milled slightly off, for one thing, and the front of the barrel seems rough compared to the PSP/PSA/Kassnar and Browning.

I like the Mini Guardian in .32ACP, but the larger framed .380ACP model just seems too heavy for pocket carry (18+ ounces), especially compared to the Seecamp LWS380 and Kel-Tec P-3AT.

I'd carry a 22lr before I carried a 25acp. If nothing else, you could afford to practice A LOT with the 22lr. IMO, you need to do that with any of the mousegun calibers.

I have found the long, thin, heeled-bullet design of the .22LR doesn't usually feed so well, and have had a fair number of rimfire primers that didn't work properly; too many to rely on the .22LR for self-defense over the .25ACP. Practice is important with anything you carry, and the .22LR does have a big cost advantage there.

Once again, with the advent of tiny .32ACP and .380ACP pistols, why carry anything smaller (unless you already have it)?

[sm]

I'm biased.
I also admit I am probably the only person on this board that has never bothered to shoot a Keltec P-32 or P3AT. I have been offered the opportunity just...I miss the Beretta Jetfire in .25 ACP with its smooth SA trigger.

NAA Mini .22 lr 1 1/8" and I go w-a-y back. My reasons are based on this gun being my last ditch effort. This before the safety stops were part of the design.

In another life and the work I did - the real concern of being kidnapped prompted a lot of how I viewed matters. Back then, not uncommon to have one in a crotch holster, "maybe" the BGs would let me tinkle and I had a chance...
Or maybe the one around my neck on a laynard would be missed.

1911, Kframe Bug, Jetfire, NAA mini - not unusal for this to be MY CCW set up - or similar variations.

I assist with folks, I chose to assist ladies , many have the Mini with factory laynard, this may be used as a neck pc, a crotch holster, in a bra...last ditch.

Keltec does not offer laynard options. My smallest CCW is a P-11, I have a LOT of practice with this niche gun, and electrical tape and cord do work for a laynard. Just as this works for smaller Keltecs.

NAA Minis as shared earlier - are Well Crafted ,have Great Metallurgy, and Quality Control is obvious.

I used to have use of a Freedom Arms, it was really part of a "business tool" and stayed in the "business tool" pouch. Right handy as the nature of the business meant using that tool with a customer in the privacy of an office....well...if customer had other ideas, just another tool in the toolbox.

I / We .... carry handcuff keys, and razor blades on person front or back depending on BGs handcuffing us or tying us up with hands front or back.

Yep, some folks got the jump by the BGs and tied up in the business...used key, or blade to get free to call Police Direct - NO 911 back then. Since 911 a few have called 911, hit the Panic Button on Alarm system [home or business] by getting free.

I do know situations stopped immediate threat, and one is where BGs hand went up the skirt and the NAA came out of blouse...
I also know of Jetfires stopping an immediate threat too.

Just my biased take based on how raised, what exposed to is all.

[mtnbkr]

Keltec does not offer laynard options.
Sure it does. The rear pin that holds the grip to the frame (just below the back end of the slide) could be replaced with something facilitating a lanyard. Either a hollow pin or a small bolt holding a metal loop. Then, there are also the kydex holsters meant to be worn around the neck. Point is, there are plenty of ways to wear a P32/P3AT around the neck if you so desire.

Chris

[sm]

Chris ,
your are correct.

I was just thinking more of "from the factory" ready to go.

Thanks.

Hope all is well with you and yours...that daughter driving yet? :p

[MCgunner]

I like the NAA minirevolvers, but not as a SD piece. One day, I'll own one, but only as a "fun" gun. I'm just weird enough to want an engraved one with ivory grips.

ROFL! I bet that would be a bit of a challenge for an engraver. He'd have to have nano-tools.:D Wonder how much a job on a NAA would cost? I bet it'd be more'n a big gun considering the tiny work to be done.

[warmrain]

Once again, with the advent of tiny .32ACP and .380ACP pistols, why carry anything smaller (unless you already have it)?
I've got any early Bauer and it seems to be of high quality. In fact I was pretty surprised at the fit and finish. And, I have found that FN and PSP/PSA parts fit.

I agree though, with the NAA, Seecamp and other (e.g. the largerm but still small Rohrbaugh) the only reason I carry the baby is as a BUG and because I already have it (even though I do have a NAA 32). I'm thinking seriously of the LWS-380 or R9 though.

Agreed also that the NAA 380 is too large, and it is brutal to shoot. And the 22LR is just not reliable enough (ignition) to depend on for self defense.

[alamo]

Chris ,
your are correct.

I was just thinking more of "from the factory" ready to go.

Thanks.


P-32/P-3AT Lanyard


They do have a factory lanyard. Here it is, $8.00:

http://www.kel-tec.com/p32accessories.html

[Green Lantern]

I bought a 2nd Gen Kel-Tec P3AT a few months ago and love it!

As others have said, it's the lightest, smallest gun in the caliber. This matters if you really need GREAT concealment.

No "fluff and buff" for me, and the gun has been flawless save for one shot...and I think it was a limp wrist issue. Just keep a firm grip and you should be fine.

I WANTED a P32 at first due to the extra round and slide lock, but was talked out of it by a guy who pointed to the lack of rimlock, and sold me the virtues of the .380 over the .32. Plus, availability. I finally got mine via gunbroker.

If you do get the KT, I urge you to wait....NOT for the 3AT (though you may want to, that's fine ;) ), but for one with the hard chrome finish. Less worry about keeping the slide in good shape with daily sweaty pocket carry. Though my blued finish is holding up fine.

[warmrain]

I WANTED a P32 at first due to the extra round and slide lock, but was talked out of it by a guy who pointed to the lack of rimlock, and sold me the virtues of the .380 over the .32.

Green Lantern,

Can you (or someone else) describe "rim lock" and why it is a problem with 32 ACP and not 380 ACP or 9mm?

[alamo]

Can you (or someone else) describe "rim lock" and why it is a problem with 32 ACP and not 380 ACP or 9mm?


http://www.1bad69.com/keltec/rimlock.htm

[warmrain]

Alamo,

Thanks Man! That makes all the sense in the world. In fact I wondered why 22 and 25 were stacked so steeply in the magazine.

BTW, I experienced rim-lock in a PSA-25, but did not know what was happening at the time. I was using Winchester self defense "soft point" (the one with the BB in the nose). The recoil of the pistol was causing the lower rounds in the magazine to get mashed in the nose and they shortened up (not into the case, just the nose got mashed) and as they shortened up and moved forward (actually the magazine moving back) eventually a round would rim lock and the whole pistol became useless...

Always carry a spare magazine...

[mtnbkr]

Hope all is well with you and yours...that daughter driving yet?
Thanks. No, not driving YET, but she is getting good at being a backseat driver. She actually engaged my mother-in-law in an argument about which way she needed to go last time she (the MIL) visited. :scrutiny: :D

Chris

[Alan Fud]

Now I'm thinking for the same size as the NAA, I should be considering a LWS380 (if only I could find one!) or perhaps the Rohrbaugh R9. Just to let you know ... http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=43654&stc=1&d=1155945213 ... there is considerable difference in size between a Rohrbaugh R9 and an NAA Guardian in 32ACP.

[pocketgun]

BTW, I experienced rim-lock in a PSA-25, but did not know what was happening at the time. I was using Winchester self defense "soft point" (the one with the BB in the nose). The recoil of the pistol was causing the lower rounds in the magazine to get mashed in the nose and they shortened up (not into the case, just the nose got mashed) and as they shortened up and moved forward (actually the magazine moving back) eventually a round would rim lock and the whole pistol became useless...

Rimlock with the .25ACP is pretty rare, but I have heard of it. As you have noticed, it is a semi-rimmed design like the .32ACP. Usually, it just doesn't have enough recoil to get buggered up.

Good job on picking up the quote feature, BTW! :cool:

[warmrain]

Thanks for the instructions on the quote feature pocketgun,

It makes me wonder why there isn't a button for it...

Anyway, I was surprised too that I had that trouble with the Win SP, but then it is a soft point... I had the same thing happen in both the PSA-25 and the Bauer...

[NewShooter]

Keltec sells a part to solve the rimlock problem. Its only a problem with HP ammo.

[pocketgun]

There actually is a quote button (in the reply window, fourth from the right) but all it does is put the quote tags around the text that you still have to manually copy and paste, then highlight - no credit for the poster unless you add it with the ="username" part.

My PSP-25 is very ammo-sensitive - it will only work well with ammo that has a taper crimp on the case mouth. Speer Gold Dot and PMC Bronze seem to work best.

edited for typo