Titegroup in 45acp


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Helicoa
November 29, 2006, 05:08 PM
Hi! all,

I'm new to this forum.
I was wondering if any had try Titegroup in 45 acp for a H&K USP Tactical with a 230gr RN FMJ.
If yes: How accurate, which brand of bullet, powder quantity, OAL etc...

I started at 4.0 gr of Titegroup and increase to 4.8 (max load in Lee manual)
with a .1gr increase at a time.
OAL was 1.350 and 1.400 and 1.450. ( above 1.550, pistol would jam) but accuracy is never good (5 to 7 inches group at 25 meter) on sandbag
With American Eagle bullets, 1.5 to 1.75 inches group.

I'm open to any suggestion.

Thanks

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taliv
November 29, 2006, 05:32 PM
i shoot titegroup under a 230g RN out of a H&K USC :)
no problems with accuracy
my OAL is way less... like 1.225

rchernandez
November 29, 2006, 05:36 PM
Along with different powder loadings you might try a variety of bullets from different manufacturers. I don't own a USP but have several 1911 pattern .45acp. I have a Clark that groups right at about 2" at 50 yards with Star 185gr LHPSWC while a Kart-barreled SA prefers 200gr LSWC (HG68).

For FMJ, try Sierra 8815's (230gr FMJ RN).

Good luck!

Helicoa
November 29, 2006, 06:01 PM
My next plan was to try different bullet brand and weight.

I always reloaded for revolver (and never had a problem), never for pistol.
I know that the taper crimp is an issue.

Concerning the powder, I guess I' ll be stuck with it for a while, I bought 4 lbs 3 weeks ago. (hope I' ll learn from this)

taliv
November 29, 2006, 06:01 PM
no really, isn't OAL supposed to max out at 1.275 for acp?
why are you loading plain old ball that long?

Luggernut
November 29, 2006, 06:26 PM
Yeah.. try a different COL.. I use 1.265" with Speer FMJ 230 gr bullets. I use 5.2 gr of W231 with Winchester WSP primers with great results!

Either way, all my RN 230 Gr bullets get 1.260-1.265 COL. I wouldn't be surprised if this a part of the problem.

Helicoa
November 29, 2006, 06:29 PM
Sorry, you are right.
Mistake
I should have said: 1.235. 1.240. 1.245. (above 1.255 pistol would jam).

Ol` Joe
November 29, 2006, 08:30 PM
I shoot 4.8gr of titegroup under a 200 gr Penn LSWC. I haven`t tried it with any 230gr bullets though.

Zak Smith
November 29, 2006, 09:38 PM
My load is a 200gr PRN with 5.1gr TG, 1.250", if I remember correctly.

Walkalong
November 29, 2006, 09:47 PM
I've shot Berrys 230 Gr RN with 4.8 Grs. Tight Group and it is a light fairly accurate load. I don't care for the "Tight Group stain" on the case. Guess I'm just picky.
W-231 is hard to beat for accuracy in the .45. 5.5 Grs. W-231 and any lead 230 Gr. bullet will generally shoot very well. Pltd. bullets also.
Vihtavouri N320 is very good for medium loads & N310 is good for light loads but they are exspensive..

Werewolf
November 29, 2006, 09:48 PM
With 230gr FMJ's I've tried TG, HP38, AA#5 and HS-6.

In a 4" barreled 45 the TG and HP38 are fine but for me the AA#5 is hands over fist more accurate than TG or HP38. The accuracy difference at 25 yards is measurable. The 4" barrels just seem to work best with the HP-38 load, a little worse with TG and worst with AA#5. It's exactly the opposite with the 5" barrel - it likes AA#5 the best.

The HS-6 I use for +P .45ACP and to get 830FPS out of my 3" barreled 45. Since I only shoot that little sucker out to 15 yards and only require an average group size of 4" or 5" from it (and actually get better than that) I'm happy.

Occasionally if I'm feeling emasculated or a bit worn out and an IPSC match is coming up I'll use TG and download the 230gr FMJ to about 750FPS and go shoot the mouse phart rounds. Makes for an easy and non thumb pad bruising day.

That said I'd have no problem using any of the powders mentioned above in a self defense round. They can all push a 230 gr bullet at the 830 FPS mil-spec velocity (though TG is a little snappy for my taste when loaded to push 'em out at that speed).

Helicoa
November 30, 2006, 09:08 PM
Thanks to all for the answers.

I'll keep testing this weekend with the same bullets and powder but with different OAL and crimp.
Then, if the result is poor again, i'll use new bullet weight and then again new powder.

solvability
November 30, 2006, 09:16 PM
I use a good bit of Titegroup - it is my first choice for 9mm - I load 4.5 grain with a 115g HORNADY bullet.

For 45ACp 4.4gr with a Berrys plated 230gr RN - light recoil and good enough accuracy for 0 down in IDPA (some days).:neener:

W231 is my favourite in 45acp and pretty good in 9mm.

Black Snowman
November 30, 2006, 10:27 PM
My most accurate 45 ACP load to date is:
Starline +P case
MagTech Guardian Gold 185 gr JHP
5.5 gr Tite-Group
CCI LP primer
Don't have the COL off hand.
<1" at 10 yards from my CZ 97B. ~2" at 25 yards.

I've used 4.5 gr with 230 gr XTPs with pretty good results as well.

I wasn't happy with the accuracy of the Barry's with any loading I could come up with. I just picked up some Precision Bullets. We'll see how they do.

TonyT
December 1, 2006, 10:26 AM
I have found American select, WST and Clays to be cleaner burning than Titegroup in 45 ACP.

HSMITH
December 1, 2006, 10:29 AM
It is my opinion that TG sucks in 45, and that all efforts to make it work will just reduce the amount of suck. It isn't very consistent, accuracy has never been as good as other powders I use, and it puts a lot of heat into the gun. It is also pretty dirty compared to some other powders when used at the low pressures of 45.

TG does a lot of things reasonably well, but I haven't found anything it will do better than some other powder. It is a compromise powder in my opinion and I don't use it any more. I burned several pounds, and tried to make it work...

The Bushmaster
December 1, 2006, 10:37 AM
W-231, 5 to 6.1 grains. 185 grain JHP (Remington). Winchester cases and WLP primers. 2" or less at 25 yards from a modified (Wilson SS match barrel) Colt .45 ACP. Good luck in taming your .45 ACP.:) And welcome to the board.:)

P0832177
December 1, 2006, 05:05 PM
My load for many thousands of rounds for the USPc and USPf in 45ACP has been with Titegroup.

Case-Mixed
Primer-Fed 150
Powder-TG at 4.8gr
Bullet-Win 230gr FMJ

This is capable of fine accuracy. I have never chrono'd the load. But, it something that more then few 8# of TG have loaded for me. TG does stain the cases, but hey a run through the tumbler takes care of that. There is no unburnt powder that I had with some other powders.

Helicoa
December 3, 2006, 05:02 PM
The test this weekend finely paid off.
With 4.6fg of TG, a Winchester 230gr FMJ, Winchester large primer,
OAL 1.240, and a taper crimp .468 (Hornady).

50 ft grouping on sandbag; approximately 1 inch.
25 meter was between 1.5 and 2''.

Very consistent, and I 'll try to refine this again if I can.

This made my day.

I would like to tanks all again for the suggestions,

EddieCoyle
December 3, 2006, 05:51 PM
TG does a lot of things reasonably well, but I haven't found anything it will do better than some other powder. It is a compromise powder in my opinion and I don't use it any more. I burned several pounds, and tried to make it work...

Perhaps this is true in .45 (I've never tried Titegroup in that caliber - I found a W231 load that my guns like and I've no reason to change) but I can tell you one thing that Titegroup does very well:

It gives very consistent results with small loadings in large cases. I load a lot of S&W .500 and nothing beats Titegroup for plinking loads. I load 13 grains of Titegroup behind a 335gr plated bullet. This is a "light" load in the neighborhood of 1100 fps. The case is about 1/4 full. Of all the powders I've tried, only Titegroup gives consistent results with that much empty space in the case.

Helicoa
December 3, 2006, 09:06 PM
You're right about this,
I just started to to use it on all my 38 WC or 357 mag, and it's pretty accurate. It is very consistent.
I used Bullseye and Unique before but change to TG. I had a good deal on the price.

Concerning the stain, I just add some NuFinish in the tumbler, and it does a great job. Brass just get out like new.

HSMITH
December 3, 2006, 09:07 PM
Huh, I wouldn't have figured on that being the case Eddie. I had pretty poor results with TG in light 45 Colt loads and I would have guessed that it would be worse in 500. Then again, 13 grains might be making pressures high enough for TG to be consistent. Any idea on what pressure that load runs? It has been my experience that loads need to be around 30K PSI (loading manual pressures, I don't have the capability to measure pressure) and then TG starts to work, sometimes quite well.

I had much better results in 45 Colt with Unique than I did with TG, but the loads I was running were probably in the 15K PSI range. About what typical target loads will run in 45 acp, just with a little heavier bullet.

EddieCoyle
December 4, 2006, 07:53 AM
Any idea on what pressure that load runs? It has been my experience that loads need to be around 30K PSI (loading manual pressures, I don't have the capability to measure pressure) and then TG starts to work, sometimes quite well.

I'd guess that it is pretty close to the 30K PSI threshold, maybe just below.

AnthonyRSS
December 4, 2006, 01:22 PM
I use 5.2gr TG under a 200gr LSWC and it shoots 1.5" @25yds out of my 1911.
Chronos at 890fps.

.500S&W gets 17.5gr TG and a 350gr XTP for 1250fps. Shoots well.

Maybe I will try another powder just because.


Anthony

Werewolf
December 4, 2006, 02:48 PM
can tell you one thing that Titegroup does very well:

It gives very consistent results with small loadings in large cases.That's pretty much where TG shines and is one of Hodgdon's big selling points for TG. That's one of the reasons it is such a popular powder for .45 LC loads in CAS. It is position tolerant.

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