[jungleman]

I was watching the movie (miniseries) Hitler the other day.
When Hitler took power he bypased the German constitution for his own puropses. When I saw that I immediately thought of
our Patriot Act. I believe that we should not be overriding our constitution like the patriot act does. Or am I paranoid??:fire:

[Hkmp5sd]

The Patriot Act does violate our constitutional rights and will continue to do so until the Supreme Court is made to decide the issue.

However, the Act does not, in itself, make it easier or harder for some group of politicians to suspend the constitution and take control of the country.

The reason Hitler managed to discard the German constitution and declare himself the sole ruler is because the German Army allowed him to do so. That is the deciding factor is most coups. The side that controls the military wins. The same would apply to any attempt to overthrow the US government. If the military sides with the opposition, the constitution is out.

That very reason is why the founding fathers included the 2nd Amendment. They wanted to ensure the citizens would have a means of resisting if it ever became necessary.

[TallPine]

You're paranoid ...














but you have good reason to be.

[gharsh]

Just because you may not be paranoid, does not mean people are not out to get you....:D

[Pappy John]

"but...it can't happen here!"


How many times do you think that's been said throughout history?:(

[Standing Wolf]

Hitler was elected.

[amprecon]

So was Saddam

[Hal]

As were the Clinton's.

[Hkmp5sd]

Hitler was elected.

Not really. Hitler gained power by some miscalculations on the part of the people in power in Germany. Behind the scenes schemes, primarily by Papen, led President Hindenburg to appoint Hitler as Reich Chancellor. Within one month of gaining that position, Hitler managed to do away with civil liberties, protected under the Weimer Constitution. Within two months, all political opposition was either in prison or exile and Hitler had complete control of the Reichstag. Within four months, all trade unions were disbanded.

Following the "Night of the Long Knives", Hitler eliminated all threats from inside the Nazi party, which both relieved and pleased the High Command of the German Army. They had feared the SA being given equal status as a military unit. From that point on, they backed Hitler.

When Hindenburg finally died, Hitler combined the office of Reich Chancellor and Reich President, and from that point forward, was sole ruler of Germany.

[hops]

11/6/1932 7th Reichstag: 584 deputies

100 - Communist seats
121 - SDP (Democrats) seats
12 - other parties
20 - Bavarian Peoples Party
70 - Center Party
2 - German state party
11 - German People's party
52 - German nat. people party
196 - NSDAP

Interestingly, the NSDAP had 230 seats 6 months before in the 6th Reichstag and the Communists only had 89 seats. Many here forget that in the late 20;s early 30's the fight between the left and the right was real and hard.

Hitler was able to form a government leagally in a parlarmentary system. There was more fear of the communist menace than of the NSDAP menace. Germany had 8 major parties and another few real minor parties.

One of the reasons Germany now requires that a party get at least 5 pct of the vote in order to get seated on the Parlarment.

Remember FDR was also elected and got a blank check from Congress for 100 days. He gave us the NFA 1934 act, he in 1933 made gold ownership illegal (talk about violating the constitution), created tons of social programs, tried to stack the US Supreme Court in 1937 when Congress was not cooperating. He perhaps was not a mass murder on the scale of Hitler, Stalin and others, but he was no friend of the Constitution either.

The global deflation of 1930 - 1932 led to some radical political events.

[Nightfall]

The reason Hitler managed to discard the German constitution and declare himself the sole ruler is because the German Army allowed him to do so. That is the deciding factor is most coups. The side that controls the military wins. The same would apply to any attempt to overthrow the US government. If the military sides with the opposition, the constitution is out.

That very reason is why the founding fathers included the 2nd Amendment. They wanted to ensure the citizens would have a means of resisting if it ever became necessary.


I can't put in words how infuriating it is to see the 2nd Amendment mutilated and ignored the way it is when such basic, easy to understand precedence is set out time and again for all the world who can just read to understand! :banghead:

[jmbg29]

When I saw that I immediately thought of our Patriot Act.Who says that Hollyweird has lost its ability to make the puppets dance?

[telewinz]

Hitler was voted those "powers" by due process, it was legal. Bush was voted his "powers" by due process also. A constitution is a poor replacement for sound judgement. How is it possible to have elevated security in this country and still tie the hands of law enforcement? "Please protect me from the bad guys" but I don't want to be inconvenienced, "criminals have too many rights" but wait for due process before you take effective actions to protect the public. What logic is their in demanding greater security/protection yet insisting on living in "never-neverland".:confused:

[Rembrandt]

I need to do a little more research on this, but isn't the Patriot act similar to what Roosevelt did during WWII?....

[Hkmp5sd]

The Patriot Act makes certain civil rights violiations "legal". FDR did similar things, but without "laws" to back him up on everything. Back in those days, Hoover did many things that were against the law even then, but FDR got a kick out of the dirt he uncovered, whether related to the war or just gossip. Truman tried to put the clamp on Hoover's activities, but like all other presidents that followed until Hoover's death, he fell into the trap of using the FBI as a political intelligence organization to advance his political agenda.

FDR also allowed the OSS, forerunner of the CIA, to operate in violation of certain US civil rights.