[Race Bannon]

I have an old M&P serial #264##. I've been been told that the serial number indicates that the gun was made in 1902. I've read that all 1902's had a round butt grip with the square butt being introduced in '05. My gun is a square butt.
I'm confused.

[Brian Williams]

Standard catalog of S&W states serial numbers for 1902 are 20976 thru 33803, looks like it is a 1902...

[Old Fuff]

Pre-World War Two Smith & Wesson revolvers are identified in different ways. In the case of K-frames they are sometimes categoried by dates, models, and changes - all of which can confuse anyone.

The first one was introduced in 1899, and is known as the .38 Hand Ejector; First model. We'll start there:

First Model 1899-1902 #1 to 5,311 Round Butt

Second Model / 1902 1902-1903 #5,312 to 9,811 Round Butt

Second Model / 1902 1st. Chg, 1903-1905 #9,812 to 18,125 Round or Square Butt.

Model 1905 1905-1906 #18,126 to 22,426 Round or Square Butt

Model 1905 1st. Change 1906-1908 #22,427 to 33,500 Round or Square Butt.

And so on. I'm sorry my chart doesn't look better.

Anyway, the square butt was introduced during the .38 H.E.; Model of 1902. 1st. Chg. But your revolver is a Model 1905; 1st. Chg. probably made in 1907. Look on top of the barrel and see if the last patent date isn't Feb 6, 1906

My source is History of Smith & Wesson by Roy G. Jinks. Mr. Jinks is Smith & Wesson's Official Company Historian.

[Race Bannon]

Thanks guy's,

This can be rather confusing stuff.

[Old Fuff]

Well I have one Smith & Wesson that was made before it was made, and has a feature that was discontinued before it was made... :what:

Regarding your gun, this is why there is so much confusion.

The first K-Frame (Military & Police) model was introduced in 1899. The most noticeable feature vs. later guns was that it didn't have the little underlug on the bottom of the barrel to latch the end of the ejector rod.

That was first offered on the Model 1902

Then when the 1902 / 1st Chg. came along they added the option of having either a square or round butt.

After this, all of the models and changes represented various modifications on the inside. From the outside you coudn't tell the difference from about 1903 until 1948, except during the 1920's they made the front sight wider, and changed the rear notch from "U" to square. Today they do this with model and dash numbers (Model 10, 10-1, 10-2, etc.)

Factory records weren't always clear as to the EXACT date that the various internal changes were made, and sometimes you'd have a transitional period when both old and new parts were being used until all of the old parts were used up. This is why I have a .38 Double Action (Top Break) that according to its serial number should be a 4th model, but is a 5th model. So you see, I just proved that the books are wrong.

Anyway a lot of research has been going on, especially by Roy Jinks, in an attempt to try and better tie down the correct dates and serial number ranges within the 1902 and 1905 Hand Ejector; K-frame revolvers. As more is learned the research books will have to be updated.

If you really want to know the details about your particular revolver, write to Roy at the S&W factory. Include: (1) a $30.00 check made out to Smith & Wesson. (2) A snapshot of the revolver. (3) A description of the revolver, including the full serial number as stamped on the butt. After about 6 to 8 weeks you will receive a formal letter from Smith & Wesson, signed by Roy, with all of the information he could find out about your gun, including the date shipped, and to what distributor or dealer. He will also confirm what model (1902 or 1905) and change it is.

Hopefully I have reduced some of your confusion. ;)

[Race Bannon]

As a matter of fact, when I posted this question I was hoping that you would respond. Thanks a lot.

[Adam Selene]

Of course Good Old Fuff has the best answers, Thanks for the info.