Clean 45acp Titegroup load for 230grn FMJ?


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Falconeer
December 1, 2006, 09:22 AM
Greets folks!
I have a shooting class coming up and will be doing lot of shooting in a short time period (600-800 rounds over three days). I'm currently using 4.6grn of Titegroup behind 230grn FMJ bullet for 45acp in a 5" 1911 (Sig GSR Revolution) and Sig P220ST. However I've noticed during range sessions that I get a fair amount of carbon build up after several hundred rounds and I'm worried about reliability during the class.

Does anyone have any suggested loads for Titegroup in 45acp with a 230grn FMJ bullet that helps with the problem? I'm looking for a clean load with fairly quick speed (the class is tactical handgun so I'd like to approximate carry loads). If I need to move to a different powder I'm willing to do that also.

Thanks in advance!

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Luggernut
December 1, 2006, 10:51 AM
After than many rounds I'd be surprised if you could keep carbon build up down with any powder. I've recently started reloading for my 220 as well. I've used W231, Power Pistol and Bullseye- none of which are clean IMO.

I'd suggest during your training class to relube often and clean at the end of the day. 200-300 rounds of dirty powder will not be a problem for your Sig as long as you keep it lubed. In classes like that I'll often bring a small bottle of Militech and keep the rails/barrel wet.

HSMITH
December 1, 2006, 11:21 AM
Switch to Clays, quite a bit cleaner and more consistent in 45. It also doesn't generate as much heat in the gun as TG does.

Don't worry about having recoil equal to carry loads, you will have plenty to worry about without that if the class is a good one. Just get a reliable load that shoots to POA and go with it.

For a class like that I would grease the gun as long as the weather where you are will be over about 50*. I would grease the rails heavily, grease the lugs (top and bottom) heavily, grease the bushing and barrel heavily, and grease the rest of the functioning parts normally. I would take a cheap brush, like an acid brush, and coat the ENTIRE interior of the gun with a very light coating. This will keep the fouling soft and a well fitted gun will go thousands of rounds with no additional care. Slide Glide from Brian Enos www.brianenos.com is the best grease I have found for this type of use. I have taken ULTRA tight match guns several thousand rounds without cleaning using this lube technique, and when you do clean all of the fouling will wipe right off with little or no effort.

If the temps are going to be lower than about 50* I would oil the gun with FP10 or something like that, and be sure to coat everything with it using the brush just like I would with the grease. It will also keep fouling soft and the gun running, just not as long as the grease will. Add oil to the functioning parts at the beginning of each shooting day, and a decently fitted gun should go several thousand rounds without cleaning.

TonyT
December 1, 2006, 11:23 AM
I have found that Titegroup does yioeld slight carbon buildup.
If you want clean burning loads in 45 ACP then switch to American select, WST or Clays.

Falconeer
December 1, 2006, 12:28 PM
Thanks for the advice, folks!

I use a basic gun oil (I think it's Colt I picked up cheap) for general lubing and Miltech TW-25 for grease. Good advice on the lubing technique. I would like to see the gun run with minimal maintenance as a functional check (I took this same class - Tactical Handgun 101 w/ Randy Cain - with a Sig P229 in 357 Sig and had no problems without lubing or cleaning). I don't mind relubing at the end of the day; a quick wipe, relube the rails, barrel, bushing, etc and ready to go again. :)

I've seen the Clays mentioned as clean burning in a couple of places; I'll see if I can find it locally and give it a shot. Any suggestions on a good Clays load (CCI or Winchester primers, 230grn FMJ)?

Canuck-IL
December 1, 2006, 12:36 PM
Clay's is clean, V310 is even cleaner but mucho $$ and can be a bit hard to find. Major from a 5" barrel is about 4.2 gr of either at 1.250 w a 230 RNFMJ
/Bryan

HSMITH
December 3, 2006, 10:02 AM
Start around 3.8 with a 230 jacketed bullet and work up. Current manuals from Hodgdon list 4.0 as max but many of us need a tenth or two more to make USPSA major power factor. The extra tenth or two shows no pressure signs and is under the 4.7 grain max listed in early data and a couple other manuals.

Walkalong
December 3, 2006, 10:37 AM
I had better luck with AA # 2 for clean burning target loads. Tried Clays & American Select but they were smokier and dirtied cases worse. American Select shot well for me and I'll tweak it some more, but I was dissapointed in Clays what with all the posts saying how CLEAN etc. it was. Not for me. I was also disapointed in Tight Group and Universal Clays. I also bought some Zip to try but it doesn't come close to filling any space in the case. Too much room for quadrouple charges. Haven't tried it. Might work great. I won't find out.
N310 is VERY clean burning. I am going to try some N320 when it's back in stock with the folks around here. Should work Great. N310 is a bit fast to suite me. Be ready to pay for it!! Thats why I'm loading AA # 2 for informal shooting. It's good enough for competition probably. I don't shoot pistols competitively so I can't say. Might try it one day though.

Walkalong
December 3, 2006, 10:48 AM
Slide Glide from Brian Enos www.brianenos.com is the best grease I have found for this type of use.

HSmith is right about that! Best Grease around! :)

Try Gun Butter for cold days and where you want oil, not grease. (even though they say Slide Glide is an oil)

http://www.pistolgear.com/products.php?id=10

Slippery as Goose S*** and ball bearings! :what:

Snake Oil from Dillon also works very well.

http://dillonprecision.com/template/p.cfm?maj=60&min=3&dyn=1&

I also like Slip 2000 gun oil.

http://www.slip2000.com/lubricant_info.html

Slip 2000 gun cleaner is also very good and user friendly. Water based, environmentally safe.

Haven't tried the M-Pro7 stuff I got the other day. Supposed to be good stuff. You can get it from http://www.Brownells.com

Walkalong
December 3, 2006, 02:32 PM
However I've noticed during range sessions that I get a fair amount of carbon build up after several hundred rounds and I'm worried about reliability

I'm looking for a clean load with fairly quick speed

Forgot to mention. What you are asking about is "Tightgroup Stain". Goes with the territory. If you want clean and reasonable velocity try AA # 5, if you want super clean try N320.

Falconeer
December 5, 2006, 08:54 AM
Is that 'Titegroup stain' on the cases or the pistol itself? I see some darkened areas on the cases which seem to take longer to tumble off.

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