Lever-Action Rifles for Self-Defense?


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Tequila jake
December 1, 2006, 01:45 PM
How effective would lever-action carbines in .357 Magnum and 30-30 be as defense weapons in situations such as those that occurred in Los Angeles and New Orleans, i.e., armed bands of hoodlums wandering around looking to steal anything they can? I figure the 30-30 would be good out to 100-150 yards and the .357 magnum would be good for 50 yards or so. I also have handguns and a shotgun for the short-range stuff. The reason I'm asking is that I think that a lot of LEOs feel that weapons like the SKS, the AK, and the AR-15 are politically incorrect.

Tequila Jake

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Lonestar
December 1, 2006, 01:53 PM
Actually the .357 coming out of a lever action carbine has almost the same range as 30/30, still the 30/30 is better. More like 100yards for the .357. Is the lever action more PC...sort of I guess. It's not like a cop is going to drive by you as you sit on your roof with a marlin 1894 and say...Naahh I'll leave him alone, let me go after the other guy with the AK. A rifle is a rifle. Actually if you want to scare looters off without firing a shot, its better to have a scary, less PC looking weapon.

a .357 lever action is real handy if you already have a 38 or 357 revolver.

Boats
December 1, 2006, 01:55 PM
On a human, the effective range of the two levers you mention is greater than you suppose. I'd say .30-30 would wallop a guy out to 200-250 and the .357 Mag to about 100-150 yards if you do your part. The thuddy will defeat more cover than will the mag and the rifle will beat thugs in any just about any looted body armor whereas the mag probably wouldn't.

The weaknesses of the lever are a relatively low initial capacity, they are kind of clumsy at prone, and the inability to use normal spitzer bullets. The strengths are that they are easily topped off, really handy and lightweight for all day carry, and look relatively non-threatening compared to an EBR.

cslinger
December 1, 2006, 01:57 PM
Just about any reliable firearm that you are proficient in is likely to be adequate self defense for any reasonable situation that one is likley to face.

Remember that you are likely defending yourself from thugs, who would just assume go somewhere else where the prey is easier. You will likely not be defending against a well trained, well armed unit.

I would not feel underarmed with a good lever gun.

ZeSpectre
December 1, 2006, 02:03 PM
A lever action .357 with a good load is easily useful out to 120 yards (though in my own opinion that would be pushing the envelope, after that you might get lucky but who wants to count on luck). It would probably be plenty because there aren't that many urban situations where you could shoot past 100 yards anyway.

Another potential benefit of a levergun is that you tend to avoid "showdown syndrome" where you blast away and suddenly all your ammo is gone.

Now on the other hand, it's hard to tell how many rounds you have left in a levergun and reloads are SLOW. I've thought about drilling "witness marks" into my ammo tube any number of times but I never actually do it.

Another handy benefit is if you have both your handgun and rifle in the same cartridge it sure makes it easier to carry ammo.

Finally, a .357 chambered rifle or carbine is light and manuverable and (relatively speaking) quiet. (sucks to fire prone though).

other side of the coin

I'm a recent SKS convert (and you know nobody is more of a zelot than the recently converted) and I can't even begin to tell you how much it has grown on me.

An SKS was DESIGNED for combat, which is really what you are talking about if you get to brass tacks about it. Need I really say more?

cslinger
December 1, 2006, 02:42 PM
Yep an SKS would work very well too, as would a Reminton 700, AR15, AK, Remington 7600 etc.

One could do much worse then a thutty thutty.

ArmedBear
December 1, 2006, 03:04 PM
I'd take the .357 for self-defense. Marlin's little 1894 is 36" long and weighs 6 lb. in .357, so it's quick and convenient.

.30-30 recoil is pretty unpleasant in a 6 lb. gun. .357 is no big deal.

foghornl
December 1, 2006, 03:07 PM
There are better choices than say a lever-action .30/30 .357Mag....SKS, Ak-xx, M1, FAL, etc

But if it is what you have in hand when things go wocka! wocka!...Run Whatcha Brung. A good marksman with a Marlin/Winny levergun will be more effective than somebody just chunking lead around randomly.

I have a Marlin .30/30, and in situations other than a "Thundering Horde" arriving in Amored Personel Carriers, I'm probably pretty well set. Using one of the leverguns is certainly a "shoot 1/load 1" proposition.

Jim Watson
December 1, 2006, 03:27 PM
Some old guy name of Cooper once did some tests and articles on the subject. He found that a lever action was faster to the first hit than an AK and if you know your stuff, not enough slower to the second to worry about. If you are expecting sustained firefights with determined enemies, you need a military weapon. If you need self defense against common criminals, the deer rifle will serve you well.

115grfmj
December 1, 2006, 03:27 PM
my 1894c has a capacity of 9+1 in .357, or 10+1 in .38. With .357 if you sight in for 3" high at 100 yrds you will have a dead on hold out to 175yds with commercial 158grjsp. I regularly shoot out to 200yds with my peep sight equipped marlin. Not tack driving at that range but 10 round out of 10 on a pie plate (from a rest;) ) at 200 yards:D . In todays day of scopes, I think it amazes people just what you can do with a good peep sight.

Also the power of the .357 from an 18.5" barrel allows to maintain it's energy and only drop down to the ME of a four inch revolver when it passes the 172 yd mark.

Granted in a self defense situation you will not be shooting at this range, but practically everthing you will need a carbine for will be in range for the .357.

Needless to say get an AR if you feel you will need to lay down alot of cover fire, or if you will be trying to fend off a determined fire team assaulting your position:uhoh: .But then your **s is grass anyway:neener:

Tequila jake
December 1, 2006, 03:52 PM
Thanks for all the helpful recommendations.

I don't think I'd ever be facing a determined, disciplined, trained enemy. Most likely it would be a few hoodlums roaming town in the aftermath of a hurricane, tornado, or some other natural disaster just to see what they could steal/take away from good folks.

In such a scenario I think a few well-aimed shots would probably scatter them and send them looking for easier prey. Then, if I had put one of them down for keeps, you can be sure his family would scream bloody murder and sue me for killing their "poor, innocent, misunderstood, underprivileged" son/brother, etc. In such a situation I think my chances with some bleeding-heart jury members would be much better if my weapon were a common-as-dirt, traditional looking M94 or 336 rather than an "evil assault weapon."

Tequila Jake

bclark1
December 1, 2006, 04:23 PM
I've often thought about going for the levergun instead of the AR if I was ever in an HD situation with one or two opponents. Much handier than a shotgun, and I simply can't imagine anyone continuing a fight after taking a 45/70 COM at close range. 30/30 would still pack a heckuva wallop, and a .357's going to be hotter than out of a pistol with a longer barrel. Unless you do a lot of pistol training and have your double-taps down, you'd probably end up doing more damage with followup shots with an easier-to-shoot rifle as well.

AK-74me
December 1, 2006, 04:30 PM
I've often thought about going for the levergun instead of the AR if I was ever in an HD situation with one or two opponents. Much handier than a shotgun, and I simply can't imagine anyone continuing a fight after taking a 45/70 COM at close range. 30/30 would still pack a heckuva wallop, and a .357's going to be hotter than out of a pistol with a longer barrel. Unless you do a lot of pistol training and have your double-taps down, you'd probably end up doing more damage with followup shots with an easier-to-shoot rifle as well.

I have too recently been having those same thoughts, I really want a Marlin 1895G and have been trying to convince myself I need it.

torpid
December 1, 2006, 04:55 PM
I have too recently been having those same thoughts, I really want a Marlin 1895G and have been trying to convince myself I need it.

I can't speak towards using it for HD, but as someone who does have an 1895G...

...you need it.

:evil:

High Planes Drifter
December 1, 2006, 05:41 PM
Well, TJ, I myself carried my M1A in the days after Katrina, but I wouldnt have felt undergunned with my Marlin. My FIL brought his little .357 lever with him when he came to stay at our house; his power was out longer than ours. I had a few nieghbors who had thier Marlins close at hand also.

Mannlicher
December 1, 2006, 08:51 PM
a 30-30 is a fine defensive weapon. 170 grain FP moving along at 2200 fps is bad medicine for bad guys. Min. of bad guy accurate out to 150 yards.
I was living in Miami last year, after Katrina, and then Wilma. When Wilma went through, she knocked out power to the whole county. Millions were in the dark. All the street and traffic lights were out, and the cell phones died in a day.
I carried my Marlin 336Y in the floor board of the car on the way to work for a week.

JustsayMo
December 1, 2006, 10:37 PM
Saw a few posts saying that a lever action is difficult to operate in the prone position. Huh??? I frequently shoot my lever actions prone without removing my cheek from the stock. A simple rotation of wrist to about the position your hand would be in using a pistol gripped rifle and a slight extention of the fingers and there is another one is ready to go. I would even submit that I can get lower with my lever actions than I can with an AR/AK with 30 round magazine.

I have several lever actions including 357 & 30-30. Both are enjoyable to shoot, accurate and capable general purpose carbines that would likely work well in most self defense circumstances. Not my first picks but certainly up to the task.

As for the 1895G, I cannot imagine a more perfect hunting rifle. I had nearly 20 hours of unslung still hunting Elk with mine (1895GS) this season in rain, freezing rain and snow across talus slopes and through fir/larch/pine/spruce thickets... up, down.... It was a pleasure to carry and was the envy of camp. I haven't found them to be too fussy about ammo, they are fun to shoot and very addictive. Hearing that big slug hissing through the morning mist and thwacking a target ... oh man... I can't wait for next year!

MCgunner
December 1, 2006, 10:47 PM
Leverlution Hornady .30-30 ammo makes the old .30-30 a true 300 yard deer rifle. That's right, you get a 3" point blank range of 300 yards with the stuff, meaning the bullet never exceeds 3" plus or minus from line of the bore out to 300 yards if properly sighted in. All you have to do is set the cross hairs on the target and the bullet won't be more than 3" off to 300 yards. They use a bullet with a very high ballistic coefficient to achieve this. I've been handloading spitzer boat tails in .30-30 for a long time, but the trick is the leverlution (as someone here explained to me) uses a soft plastic nose insert to keep it from causing a chain fire in the magazine.

I can shoot 4" groups at 100 yards with my .357 lever carbine. It'll shoot further in a defense scenario, but I limit my hunting to 100 yards with it. I don't hunt much with it anymore, have taken one deer with it using a 158 grain cast handload. The shot was 80 yards and it did a good job with a lung shot, complete penetration. But, I have better hunting rifles in more accurate bolt guns and in more powerful calibers.

I've fired several lever carbines in .30-30 from the bench and never saw one that couldn't shoot at least 2MOA. They're far more accurate than some "experts" who've never fired one would claim. Never owned a .30-30 lever gun, though. Had a bolt gun that was sub MOA accurate, a Savage M340, and my Contender 12" .30-30 pistol shoots 1.5 MOA with a 2x scope. I think .30-30 is an inherently accurate cartridge from my experience with it.

I love these SHTF type weekend warrior posts. Some of 'em are down right hilarious. :D If you shoot a man at long range, you are very apt to be brought up on murder charges. If you could have escaped, you have no business shooting. I suppose you could use it to protect property, but is a TV worth the legal fees? I figure my CCW is all I need in any situation I can think of. I ain't real worried about a Road Warrior scenario.

smince
December 1, 2006, 10:50 PM
http://www.warriortalk.com/showthread.php?t=649
An intersting forum thread on the levergun for self defense

Bigfoot
December 2, 2006, 04:21 AM
Leverlution Hornady .30-30 ammo makes the old .30-30 a true 300 yard deer rifle. That's right, you get a 3" point blank range of 300 yards with the stuff, meaning the bullet never exceeds 3" plus or minus from line of the bore out to 300 yards if properly sighted in. All you have to do is set the cross hairs on the target and the bullet won't be more than 3" off to 300 yards. They use a bullet with a very high ballistic coefficient to achieve this. I've been handloading spitzer boat tails in .30-30 for a long time, but the trick is the leverlution (as someone here explained to me) uses a soft plastic nose insert to keep it from causing a chain fire in the magazine.

Better check those tables again. 250 yards I might believe, not 300.

Manedwolf
December 2, 2006, 04:27 AM
love these SHTF type weekend warrior posts. Some of 'em are down right hilarious. If you shoot a man at long range, you are very apt to be brought up on murder charges. If you could have escaped, you have no business shooting. I suppose you could use it to protect property, but is a TV worth the legal fees? I figure my CCW is all I need in any situation I can think of. I ain't real worried about a Road Warrior scenario.

Except that some people here are in rural areas, and there's always the possibility that they could be a distance away shooting at YOU, first. I've always considered that possibility. Looters come when they hear the generator. They see you with a gun and run off...to a distance, and start taking shots back at your house. Police can't come. Not the most likely, but definitely possible.

Colt46
December 2, 2006, 04:40 AM
I doubt you will be taking many long shots in that kind of environment. The .357 will hold more cartridges, be faster to recover between shots and will be quite effective against human predators. .30-30 would get the nod for a greater effective range and the potential to defeat body armor or shoot through whatever cover opponents could be using.

Nematocyst
December 2, 2006, 04:52 AM
I'll stay with the thuty thuty.

Good enough in an urban enviro,
but a better transition for larger game
in case one wishes to leave said urban enviro.

Will also take deer (and if hungry enough) larger herbivores,
as well as two-legged predators.

Add an 870 & a .22LR,
and you're set for the {horrendous} challenges of the next 50 years.

Horrendous? Who said horrendous?

Boats
December 2, 2006, 08:55 AM
I did not say the lever was tough to shoot from prone, only more awkward than a semi or a bolt.

de
December 2, 2006, 09:01 AM
Since we are talking about self defense against people here lets put it into perspective. He (man) is the thinnest skinned animal on the planet, and like the mythical hard to kill feral hog, isn't that hard to take down with proper shot placement.
As for the 3030's range? I have a Winchester Model 94 bought new in 1957, and I regularly practice on 1 gallon jugs of water at 270 yards. I shoot a standard 150 grain jacketed round nose at 2400 fps and the results are spectacular, and I don't miss very often. Being a police officer for 20 years (retired 13 years ago) I can tell you the Texas Dept. of Public Saftey issued the 3030 to Troopers up until about 1977 or 80, and they will put a man down.
As far as the 357 mag. rifle, I have one of those in a Winchester Model 92, and the effective range is beyond 125 yards.
The key to the issue is, can you hit at those ranges? I have receiver sights on both rifles and can, but I pratice. They are lower profile than an AR15 or some such rifle, but if it hits the fan so to speak, out comes the AR.
As far as your shotgun at close range, I have never seen a man get up after taking a solid hit from a 12 gauge regardless of type of load. And I have seen several. Good luck on you decision. JMTCW.

roscoe
December 2, 2006, 10:54 AM
One big plus for the .357 is its handiness. I have a .45LC Trapper for this purpose, and it is a tiny little thing that has power all out of proportion to its size.

MinScout
December 2, 2006, 12:55 PM
I think one would be hard pressed to justify shooting someone at 100+ yards and claiming self defense. Assuming your house is still livable, your probably better off just patrolling your yard with your shotgun at ready. The "hoodlums" will likely bypass your place in search of an easier target.
I have a Marlin lever action carbine for home defense, because that's what I'm most comfortable with. I'm a hunter, not a "tactical ninja" type, so lever actions suit me best.

worker
December 2, 2006, 01:39 PM
I have read several books on self-defense.
Including specific books about Florida laws and I have never come across an incident that described long range shooting for self-defense (so this does not make in an expert... just another opinion)

I personally think it will be almost impossible to justify, unless you were shot at at a distance, and even then.
I can also see that one is justified in the case of kidnapping,
shooting the kidnappers car for example... If your loved one is being kidnapped, stopping kidnapping with all the possible means is justified in my opinion.

Having said that, I would love to get a .357 magnum companion rifle... and most of those seem to be lever action... I found this thread particular usefull because I did not know about 1897 Marlin

ECVMatt
December 2, 2006, 02:04 PM
I got trapped at USC during the Rodney King Riots and it was unfun! I had my Glock 17 and about 10 mags fully loaded with me. I was forced to drive down MLK Ave becuase the cops would not let me on the freeway. Fortunately I did not have to use my Glock, but my truck did get pelted with soup cans which seemed to be the weapon of choice for most of the locals.

I would have much rather had one of my rifles. While I would not have shot at people a 100 yards away, but I would have shot them across the street to keep them away. This would be much more easily done with a rifle and the hits would be more effective.

I think a lever action would have worked fine in this situation and would have made explaining my actions easier in court than if I had used my AR. Loading would have been a concearn, but I hunt a lot with leverguns and am used to topping them off after I shoot. I really don't think people would continue to charge you after one of their buddies got dropped. The sight of my pistol sent many folks running.

I think either caliber would be fine, however I tend to get better feeding with the bottle neck type calibers (I have a few marlins in both pistol and rifle rounds). In a stressful situation I would go with the .30/30. It also hits harder and is better at shooting through car doors and things like that.

Hope this helps you out,

Matt

tubeshooter
December 2, 2006, 02:15 PM
I've seen this question come up before, the conventional wisdom seems to be that it will do a serviceable job if pressed into the role - doing better with "hold down the fort" than "out and about". Being relatively PC is nice also.


Just be careful not to damage it somehow, it's not a battle rifle and was never really intended to be.

ravencon
December 2, 2006, 03:39 PM
Just be careful not to damage it somehow, it's not a battle rifle and was never really intended to be.

The lever action was the quintessential American assault rifle of its era. It certainly isn't as robust as a modern military rifle/carbine. But, it will do the job in any reasonable civilian tactical use scenario. If I could have only one rifle I'd go with a lever action.

Janos Dracwlya
December 2, 2006, 03:48 PM
What with Hurricane Katrina last year, I've been thinking more about SHTF scenarios (and slowly accumulating the sorts of things that might be useful in such a scenario). My relatives, however, are not so interested in preparing. I was discussing with my wife the possibility of giving them all (three families) one of those really heavy duty water filtering systems like you see in [Backwoods Home and the like. She suggested that I might want to consider giving them guns (two of the familes have guns, but ones not very useful in a home defense situation), and while I won't be able to afford that this year, it got me to thinking about the problem of what I would give, if and when I could afford to do so.

My answer was a .357 magnum lever action rifle/carbine like my own Rossi Model 92. My reasoning was much the same as many others here: simple, reliable, easy to use, accurate, plenty of range and power for most situations, light on recoil, light to carry, and ammunition is commonly available. Sure, it has its down sides, like being slow to reload, but I think the advantages outweigh this. I also think it is easy enough to use that people like my mother and my aunt can learn to use it and they won't be put off by its weight or recoil.

Maybe next Christmas...

tubeshooter
December 2, 2006, 03:52 PM
OK ravencon, I'll give you that. Point noted. :cool:

Manedwolf
December 2, 2006, 04:07 PM
What with Hurricane Katrina last year, I've been thinking more about SHTF scenarios (and slowly accumulating the sorts of things that might be useful in such a scenario). My relatives, however, are not so interested in preparing.

That seems typical, yes. Most people would rather spend the money on a shiney new plasma TV, and then, post-disaster, moan and whine that the government isn't getting the free bottled water and MREs to them fast enough. :rolleyes:

115grfmj
December 2, 2006, 04:39 PM
not strong???? :banghead: :barf: :rolleyes: BS, my 1894c is a solid chunk of forged steel way over egineered, complete with steel barrel band, and no skinny barrel here folks . Guys that make these comments....you really gotta wonder wether they've even held a marlin before. These thing were made for rough use, we not talking free floated tricked out target rifles here boy's. Most lever rifles of the old west led hard lives, far harder than anything dealt out today, and the modern rifles are BETTER than those where. Try to imagine the kind of life a winchester 1873 lead in a cowboys scabbard in the old west, or in the hands of a plains indian..... so don't give me that bull lever rifles are'nt robust, I just don't buy it.:fire:

tubeshooter
December 2, 2006, 04:50 PM
It's relatively "robust"... just not SKS-level "robust". That's basically what I was saying. You'd think I called the rifles crystal goblets....


Sorry to ruffle any feathers. :evil: :p

Leanwolf
December 2, 2006, 05:21 PM
JANOS DRACWYLA - "My relatives, however, are not so interested in preparing [with firearms]. ... while I won't be able to afford that this year, it got me to thinking about the problem of what I would give, if and when I could afford to do so."


Why would you bother wasting your money on people who are too apathetic and lazy to be responsible for their own safety and self protection in a life threatening situation???????????????? Obviously they are living in denial. "It can't happen to me!" :uhoh:

If they don't own firearms now and know how to use them, plus practice with them, then they most assuredly wouldn't know how to use them in a SHTF situation, and more likely would be a danger to you and to themselves.

The last thing I want in a self defense situation is a bunch of ignorant-of-firearms-&-self defense yahoos around me, waving guns around. :eek:

Just my take on the issue.

L.W.

streakr
December 2, 2006, 05:28 PM
The use of a rifle (even pistol caliber) at 100 or more yds in the event of civil strife, riots, etc. is OFFENSIVE in nature. You are initiating the action and will face consequences.

On the other hand, in most criminal situations your primary area of defensive action is generally within 50 feet! A handgun or shotgun is far better in this role.

As a cowboy shooter I have a number of lever rifles, mainly Marlins. They are accurate and cycle quickly but this is the result of tuning and use. An out-of-the-box lever rifle may not work that well.

My defensive choices are pump shotguns and pair of Glocks, with a 1911 backup.

That's my opinion...
streakr

cslinger
December 2, 2006, 05:46 PM
An out-of-the-box lever rifle may not work that well.


Yes and no. I have two Marlins that were smooth as silk right out of the box. The same can be said of pump shotguns as well. Most require some use to smooth out but you can get decent stuff out of the box.

AgentOrange
December 19, 2009, 11:09 AM
i just purchased a brand spanking new unfired winchester 94 ranger 30-30 that was manufactured in 1984 thats smooth as a babies butt .

do you know how rare a brand new 1984 manufacture winchester 94 ranger in unfired condition is?

but for a SHTF situation, i have 2 AR-15 rifles ( one setup for CQB and the other setup for long range shooting), a 580 series mini 14 ranch and an M1 carbine.....all of which have several high cap mags,ect....i also keep around 5K rounds of 223/5.56 and about 2K rounds for the carbine. all of them are easly converted to F/A if the situations called for it.

Leaky Waders
December 19, 2009, 11:31 AM
If you google Jerry Shriver and Marlin Lever Action you'll learn about how one man used that platform in Viet Nam.

Wes Janson
December 19, 2009, 11:33 AM
The use of a rifle (even pistol caliber) at 100 or more yds in the event of civil strife, riots, etc. is OFFENSIVE in nature. You are initiating the action and will face consequences.

On the other hand, in most criminal situations your primary area of defensive action is generally within 50 feet! A handgun or shotgun is far better in this role.

As a cowboy shooter I have a number of lever rifles, mainly Marlins. They are accurate and cycle quickly but this is the result of tuning and use. An out-of-the-box lever rifle may not work that well.

My defensive choices are pump shotguns and pair of Glocks, with a 1911 backup.

That's my opinion...
streakr

On the contrary, rifles are still arguably a better platform at close distance.

Tell me how many SWAT entry teams use handguns as their primary weapon?

Victor1Echo
December 19, 2009, 11:55 AM
It all depends. Are you stepping outside on some disturbance? Or is someone in your house and its dark? Lever for one, however, for dealing with self defense a semiauto shotgun of co urse.

goon
December 19, 2009, 12:09 PM
On economics the 30-30 wins. I paid about $240 for mine a little over a year ago. I'd love to have an 1894 in .357 and an 1895G in .45-70 but good luck finding a used one for what I found my 336 for.

BTW - the first lever actions WERE the battle rifles of their day. The Henry and Spencer rifles of the civil war led hard lives and came out functional on the other side.

telomerase
December 19, 2009, 12:23 PM
and then, post-disaster, moan and whine that the government isn't getting the free bottled water and MREs to them fast enough.

Well, the government actually blocked the Red Cross from getting to NE during Katrina. Some of the whining is legit.

But yeah, if you don't have a few days of food and water you don't need a plasma TV.

robctwo
December 19, 2009, 12:36 PM
Ask the Indians.

I have a .45 Colt Rossi Puma '92 in the closet next to the Winchester Model 70 .243. Anything over 100 yds, .243, anything under 100 yards, 10 rounds of 250 gr lead real quick. The AR is available, but not necessary for most of my rural issues.

ms6852
December 19, 2009, 01:23 PM
Lever action is a great way to defend yourself at home it is small enough that would make it difficult for an intruder to grab the barrel and take it away from you. With practice you can shoot it while walking towards the intruder. I am a member at a range where it is only open to members on the days it is closed. I do practice drills at 25 yds. walking towards the taget and shooting at the same time you get good with practice. I have a 35 rem and 450 marlin. The 450 I use only if I have to shoot through concrete walls.

LEVRLOVR
December 19, 2009, 02:19 PM
These posts about distance do not take into account each persons situation.

We don't all live in urban areas.

If I am taking fire from the treeline 200 yds from the house I most certainly intend to respond in kind, with whatever is handy.

Story
December 19, 2009, 04:07 PM
Today, 11:36 AM
Ask the Indians.

First thing I thought of...
http://www.frederic-remington.org/Fight-For-The-Water-Hole.jpg

Quoheleth
December 19, 2009, 05:10 PM
Gabe Suarez on the tactical lever action:
http://www.marlinowners.com/forums/index.php?topic=40982.0
(see 1st post)

edit: I just realized that this thread literally jumped three years this morning, from 12/2/06 to today.

Q

ozarkgunner
December 19, 2009, 05:36 PM
Not to be the "shoot first, ask later", but I live a a rural area outside of town in southwest Missouri. tornado country and all. And the power goes out regularly from stroms and all. If looting starts out here, I know I'm not the only one that will be sitting high with my 336 or other. And if some sh#t head/s come looking for easy pickings, be it close up or 50 yrds or more, I say good luck trying to figure out which of a number of house holds the shot came from. My neighborhood the the ajoining ones, have only one street in.
Once I finally get my 336 sighted in, I have no problems using it for HD. I grab my SG first for HD, if I think there is something, or some one further out, I will be grabbing my 336. And it's 30-30.

Averageman
December 20, 2009, 01:05 AM
The use of a rifle (even pistol caliber) at 100 or more yds in the event of civil strife, riots, etc. is OFFENSIVE in nature. You are initiating the action and will face consequences.

I'm no lawyer, but I would say that dog wont hunt in Texas. If that 100yds is on my property and I am dealing with a thief or a looter my understanding is it works.
Texas is a whole different way of life.

Big Bill
December 20, 2009, 01:11 AM
The use of a rifle (even pistol caliber) at 100 or more yds in the event of civil strife, riots, etc. is OFFENSIVE in nature. You are initiating the action and will face consequences.It depends on whether you're talking about a situation under "Rule of Law", or "without Rule of Law". If there is no rule of law then, IMO, anything goes.

robctwo
December 20, 2009, 02:27 AM
The great thing about guns over bows is that you don't have to let them get that close.

Shooting at a kid down the block because he dissed your sister is different from shooting at the gang down the block raping your sister.

Other examples might come to mind as well.

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