Which is a better shooter and/or deal out of the box?


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Mylhouse
May 23, 2003, 04:11 PM
I'm in a mental pickle. I want a super precise bolt rifle out of the box. 308 or 300Win Mag. Either or. And I don't have a lot of money to spend. Precision is the most important attribute.

A local guy has a Remington Sendero in .300WM (blue) with 200 rds fired and a 6.5x20 x 40 Simmons 44mag scope for $700 private party transfer.

The other rifle is a Savage 10FP LE with a 20" barrel in .308. It has the new Accutrigger. This one I can get new in the box for $458 out the door.

1) Which is the more precise rifle out of the box?

2) Which is the better deal?

3) Any arguments for/against either caliber would be appreciated!

Thanks and I hope everyone has a great Memorial Day Weekend!:)

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makarov
May 23, 2003, 04:19 PM
The Savage rifles are supposed to be very good shooters especialy with the Acctrrigger. Used guns can be very good deals sometimes. A used gun will also not depreciate as much if you got a good deal to begin with.

That said Remington 700's are also very nice. Higher quality (not necessarliy more accurate though)

I am looking at either the CZ 527 Varmint or the 550. The 550 model is in .308 You chould be able to find one for about $500 . Maybe a little more if they have to special order. Whittaker's has them for $498, but you would have to pay transfer and shipping.

Jim Watson
May 23, 2003, 05:24 PM
1. Remingtons are nicer made than Savages but out of the box accuracy is a tossup.
2. The Remington has got some depreciation but that is a mediocre scope and it has burnt about 10% of its barrel life.
3. Magnums have more recoil, shorter barrel life, and are not needed for ranges of 600 yards or less.

I'd get the .308.
Will they round you up a 24" barrel for the same price? A short barrel is not necessarily less accurate but you are giving up some velocity which is valuable at extreme range - you want the bullet supersonic at the target - and getting more muzzle blast.
I'd still get the .308, even 20".

And the very best scope you can't afford. Stretch the budget for a nice scope, it will pay off in the shooting.

9mmepiphany
May 23, 2003, 05:29 PM
i don't have either yet (too many pistols) but i've been shot those belonging to friends and been doing my homework inprep to making a purchase.

1. the savage seems to be better out of the box with the accutrigger being a major plus (addressing it's only major shortcoming). there seem to be more folks who work on the 700...so many you would think it was unacceptable "out of the box"

2. the savage is definately a better buy

3. my only opposition to the savage has been barrel nut...just looked funny...now i find it doesn't need it.

Bogger
May 23, 2003, 05:41 PM
Hi Dave: Just finished writing a lengthy post and timed out on the da*mned board and lost it. Rather than rewriting it lets talk Monday, I think I and my pd shooting buddies have a lot of experience in this area. If you're interested let me know then.

DrDremel
May 23, 2003, 06:55 PM
I would say the Savage is the deal. The Remington is a nice gun but the scope is not worth anything. Simmons is the Lorcin of the scope industry. I have thrown 3 away from having multiple problems from reticles that started rotating on a 4 power to a 4-12 that took about 12 30-06 shots for any adjustments to move. Since you can get a new Sendero for close to 700.00, get the Savage. They are extremely accurate due to the design of the bolt adjusting to lock on both lugs and the extra money could be a start on a scope.

Mylhouse
May 23, 2003, 06:59 PM
I should probably mention a couple of things....

1) I have always been predominantly a pistol shooter. I have a lot to learn and experience with rifles. I have been handloading for 3 years, so that should help with the learning curve.

2) I know someone is going to ask me what I NEED the rifle for, so this is it....
I just want a tack driving machine that has a little more oomph than the ARs and AKs that I play with when I'm not pistol shooting. I want a bolt so that I don't have to chase after brass and I don't have to full-length resize it either. I want to shoot varmints out to 300 yds (if a shot that far really presents itself), as well as small targets of opportunity (bottles, clay pigeons, powder blue helmets...ahem! oops! did I just say that?). Mostly, though, I'll probably be trying to punch tiny clusters of bullet holes in paper targets at 100-300 yds so that I can bring em home and show and tell with my friends.


Bogger, I'll be seeing you on Sunday, and I'll be more than happy to hear some stories and insight over lunch...:cool:

Quintin Likely
May 23, 2003, 07:39 PM
10FP with a 24" barrel and the Accutrigger, in .308.

Spend the change on good glass, mounts, ammo, and never look back.

.300 WM is a neat round and all, but it's overkill for the ranges you're shooting at, its an expensive beast to feed, barrel life is relatively short, and its punishing to shoot in recoil and muzzleblast for extended periods.

My .02 :)

echo3mike
May 24, 2003, 12:52 AM
Ditto what A308Winchester said, plus the 300WinMag is gonna crucify your shoulder and is beaucoup bucks to shoot, even if you reload.

If there's such a thing as too much gun, this is the example. Go with the .308...Savage has a pretty good rep lately.


S.

uglymofo
May 24, 2003, 02:34 AM
Everyone's steering you in the right direction; the only thing I'd add is that you should try to find a Simmons on EBay or Gunbroker. That'll prove to you how little that brand of scope is worth.

S_O_Laban
May 24, 2003, 07:11 AM
Bogger I've had the same thing happen to me many times also. Now every time before I hit the submit button I copy my post to clipboard in case I have timed out. Once logged back in i paste my post back in:D saves lots of aggravation, hope this helps:D

Bogger
May 24, 2003, 08:22 AM
S_O_Laban: Thanks for the reminder. I have done this in the past, but unfortunately I fall into lazy ways. You're right , I should take this step at least when it's a long posting...Bogger

Quintin Likely
May 24, 2003, 09:05 AM
The Savages I've seen lately have a tendency to be spooky accurate out the box...my friend talked me into a 10FP in .223 a while back (similar setup he has) If I do my part, it'll make one ragged hole at 100 yards anyday of the week with a $70 Tasco and a lousy shooter (aka Me) behind it. Hurts the feelings of the Winchester and Remington crowd at the range :p

cratz2
May 25, 2003, 04:50 AM
For out of the box accuracy, I'd give the nod to the Savage. I know there are plenty of accurate Remingtons out there - I've had two of 'em - but the Savages are pretty consistant.

Also, if 90% or more of the shooting you're going to be doing is at paper, I'd definately lean towards the 308 over the 300 Win Mag. The difference in recoil is considerable. Also, even handloading, the cost will be greater to feed the Sendero.

On the other hand, the Sendero will more than likely be reasonably well done and has a very nice stock. The Savage stock is kinda junky. But if you're shooting off a bipod or bags as you probably will be starting off in long distance shooting, it won't make any difference.

I had the same power 44MAG scope on a variety of rifles and was always quite pleased with it. Scope snobs can scoff all they want but I liked it as much as the Leupold VariX II 6-18x40 I used at the same time... Both were usually set to 10x and I could see .22 cal bullet holes at 100 yards equally well with either scope.

And... the .308 and the .300 Win Mag are the same caliber, just different cartridges. ;)

Mylhouse
May 25, 2003, 09:15 AM
I do believe I am going to go with the Savage. The 20" is the one listed at the above price, but I'll try to get the 26" for the same price.

Maybe I'll just get the 10FP in 24" (non LE model). I really don't see any difference in the non-LE and LE models except for the oversized bolt handle and the availability of the upgraded stocks...

yzguy
May 25, 2003, 12:11 PM
I love my 10FP 24" heavy barrel.... :)

I did have to get the choate stock for it though!!

http://www.1bad69.com/gallery/GunStuff/savage/dcp03439.gif (http://www.1bad69.com/gallery/GunStuff/savage/dcp03439.jpg)
(click to enlarge)

http://www.1bad69.com/gallery/GunStuff/savage/savagetarget.gif (http://www.1bad69.com/gallery/GunStuff/savage/savagetarget.jpg)
(click to enlarge)

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