[ldasr]

I could not get this gun to pattern so I returned it to Ruger. They changed the front sight, installed new nipples, Hammer, Trigger and Bullet Rammer. At the range useing 43Gr of Pyrodex P, a Wonder Wad and a .457 Speer Ball, it still won't pattern. It throws high and to the right. The best I can get at 25 yards is a 5 inch pattern. The folks at Ruger tell me it patterned 1 inch @ 15 yards useing 30 Gr.Pyrodex P a Wad & .457 Ball. Any Ideas???

[drdirk]

The loading sounds fine. The only thing I can think off is that the gun may be too dirty. Keep in mind that accuracy is lost or progressively gets worse after a few cylinders of shooting. I find that my accuracy is pretty good for about 3 cylindrers and then the groups start to widen. Once in a while I will have a "flyer" from a dalayed ignition. Black powder is not like cartridge shooting, many factors can influence accuracy. It is probably not the amount of powder or the ball however. I don't use wads but it should not make a difference.
Just keep playing and vary one thing at a time.
Good luck!

[ldasr]

Thank for the reply, I will be going back to the range Wednsday. Do you know if the is a Bullet Coefficient for the .457 Ball??

[model 649]

Years ago (12 or 13) I shot several bullseye matches with mine. I never ran more than 20 gr. P for fine target work ever. 43gr sounds way high to me. As I recall, the best groups were around 15 gr. The BC might go .150?(but who cares?). I've always thought the round ball was fairly "brick-like", but predictable. Maybe try backing it down towards what the factory ran, at least just for verification. Are you resting the pistol? I'll bet the factory did. Don't give up on one of the finest cap-n-ball rigs ever made just yet.
Josh

[Shawnee]

Hi Idasr...

Am going out in about 15 minutes to shoot my ROA with the exact load the Ruger Folks used in yours. Will photograph the target and post it. Have no idea what that load will do in my gun. Will be shooting outside (temp about 15 degrees), two-handed from sitting on a backwards chair at 15 yards.
Ok, here is the target. The shot low/right was a flinch. Other four shots are in a group that measures 2.5" vertically and 1 and 5/8" horizontally. Was using a 6 0'clock hold on the black circle and obviously I need to adjust the windage just a little.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y159/FiveO/ROAtarget.jpg

HTH !!

[Duncaninfrance]

1. A BIG load it not necessarily an accurate load.
2. I pull my barrel through after every cylinder using 'Windex' and I also wipe over the frame. I load with a bench loader so the cylinder is always loaded out of the gun. Much more consistent pressures.
Works for me although I am currently talking about my Remington 1858 NMA

[enkindler]

My ROA shoots best with 20G FFG covered by 20G cornmeal. The big loads fun but never consistent for me.

[Shawnee]

Hi Idasr...


Ok - here is another group after moving the sight a shade. This was shot the same as the last and is five shots (the hole closest the "9" on the left is actually a double hole).

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y159/FiveO/ROATarget25shots.jpg


The group measure 2 7/8" wide by 2 5/8" high.

The previous target were was shot with the 6th - 10th shots since cleaninig and this one was with the 11th - 15th. Mine is a stainless steel model.

If I ever get challenged to a gunfight I hope they let me bring my kitchen chair !!!

HTH :)

[motorcycle_dan]

I shot mine this weekend 30 gr fffg (the real stuff, cuz it smells gude)
Groups fine. I suspect the larger powder charge does unusual things with group size. My groups were well withing my accuracy standards of 4" at 25 yards. I would like them to shoot a little lower, as the rear sight is bottomed out and they still shoot a tad high.

What I need to work on is a sight stretcher. Once I get my counter rotating, hole shrinking drill bit fixed, I work on a front sight stretcher.
I'll be rich I tell ya...

[Jamie C.]

What I need to work on is a sight stretcher. Once I get my counter rotating, hole shrinking drill bit fixed, I work on a front sight stretcher.

Ah, just shoot at higher targets. :p ;)


J.C.

[motorcycle_dan]

Heheheheh,
At the Log Cabin shop this weekend; I was looking for taller sights for a remmie.

Was told, the civil war soldier was taught to aim at the belt buckle of the enemy. It was designed to shoot a foot high. Which is about where one of my remmie pistols groups. I have one of those real estate type corregated plastic sign that I use to staple targets on. (Work great and they are littering yards all over town) (vote for democrat xxx printed on some)
Just kidding,

Put two targets on this thing one on top the other. Shooting a 6:00 hold on the bottom target, I put a nice tight group in or near the black of the top target. So in effect I have figured out how to shoot higher targets.

Enough screw'n round. I gotta go do my bullseye league thing. Indoors and warm, but no sulfur smell. Well not as much, depends on what I had fer dinner the night before.....

[mykeal]

43 gr is too much for a mediium size frame 45 cal c&B revolver like the ROA; that is undoubtedly the cause of the inconsistent results. It will shoot much better with loads below about 32 gr. 43 gr is only usable in a large frame gun like a Dragoon or Walker (or a Paterson or Whitneyville) in my opinion. I get good groups from my Dragoons with 45 gr; above that they get real wild, and my hand hurts.

[Howdy Doody]

It has been a long time since I shot any Pyrodex. When I did it was my standard load for my ROAs and that is 30gr.
I shoot a lot of subs and the current one is Goex Pinnacle, made by APP for Goex. A 30 gr load is plenty accurate at 25 yards and less. Of course there is a BUT, and that is that the 30gr load, the 457 pure lead ball, the wad forced me to file the sights to get there. The ROA sights, and mine are fixed ones are too danged high. I always figured that was for 40gr loads. I don't know. They are too high. My windage was a tad off on all 4 ROAs I have. I made the adjustment by widening the rear slot to one side or another to make the adjustment. If they were off more I would have had to turn the barrel.
That is the fun of C&Bs, the tuning and experimenting with each one for the best results. Keep at it and try different loadings and powders too if you can.
ROAs are stout, the chambers are deep, but best of all is the Ruger bushing. That pin bushing keeps them running and the pin clean. The cylinders don't bind like in my other C&Bs near as easy.

[unspellable]

Evry gun is a rule onto itself. I've heard pretty consistent stories about the ROA doing its best target work with lite loads. On the other hand my Rogers & Spencer puts 'em all over the map with lite loads and tightens up with a medium load.

[4v50 Gary]

What DuncaninFrance says. Heavy loads aren't necessarily the most accurate loads. Suggest you try to replicate what Ruger did to get accuracy. 30 grains.

[Imaginos]

When I am at the black powder section of the gun range and learning a lot of new words from the fellow a few lanes over, my first suggestion is for him to lower his powder charge by at least 25% to see if things improve.

I cannot squeeze more than about 35gr Pyrodex P + Wonder Wad + .457 round ball into my ROA and still have the cylinder turn. You may be driving that ball so fast that it is stripping out on the rifling. Have you checked for leading in your barrel?

You might also try putting a dab of lube on top of the chambers in addition to the wad. I find that helps a lot in hot dry weather.

The first thing to do is come back to about 30gr and see what happens.

[Fiveshooter]

Even with a load that heavy the ROA should do better than 5" at 25 yards.
I do agree that the heaviest loadings are not generally the most accurate. I suggest you try lighter loads and try the gun from a bench rest so you are testing the gun/load and not the shooter. If it is the gun it is a lemon and not the norm for a Ruger Old Army.:eek:

[sundance44s]

Back off on the powder and start with 20 grs and work up a load that shoots straight .I think you`ll be pleasently supprised at the results .

[4v50 Gary]

I confess that when I was younger (20), I bought my Old Army via Gil Hebard. I loaded it to the top with black powder and could barely squeeze a .457 ball down the cylinder and followed by globs of shortening. Who needed this stuff called filler anyway?:rolleyes: The purpose wasn't to hit a target. Who cared?:p As the range was crowded and there was a bunch o' us shooting (or at least wanted to shoot), when the first lane opened, I naturally went first. The shattering of percussion caps, the belching clouds of sulphourous white smoke, the flying grease all worked together to drive other people away from me. Then my buddies could have a lane and shoot with too. The Old Army was put away for more modern guns. It wasn't about accuracy back then like it is today. It was about having a place for me & my buddies to shoot. So ends my selfish story of the day. :D

[sundance44s]

Nice going Gary ...when i was younger shooting smokepoles at a public range ...after my first shoot i would see folks talking to the range officer , then he would come to me and quietly tell me to move to the end of the range ..where there was no cover , and no people eaither ...
If that were to happen to me now ...you do know what i would tell them don`t ya ...lol ..:neener:

[Shawnee]

LOLOLOLOLOL!!

Being a person who doesn't care to waste time on confrontation I solved the problem by using the money saved from range fees to buy a 12-acre backyard and installing my "range" 20 steps from my back door.

Muzzleloaders Welcome. :D

[motorcycle_dan]

Okay everyone over to Shawnee's place. Free range, I get first dibbs on put'n first hole in his burn'n barrel.

Public ranges are nice at times but just prior to deer gun season, they are full of people with new guns and they are hunters rather than shooters.

I much prefer a shooter that likes to hunt, than a hunter that likes to shoot.

[sundance44s]

Funny i just put 10 holes in a burn barrel last weekend ... it breathes real good now ..

[Shawnee]

LOLOLOLOLOL !!:D

My burn barrel is already on life-support so it would be no great loss.
Pic is of the backstop I arranged and no sporting firearm of any kind can shoot through it. :neener:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y159/FiveO/Backstop.jpg

:D

[sundance44s]

Shawnee i got the same back stop on my place ...and there`s 1/2 mile of thick woods behind mine . Been thinking about haveing a dumptruck load of sand dumped on top of the wood stack too ..the soft sand would keep down any ricko shays ...:D

[ldasr]

To start with this is the first forum I have ever been on. I thank all of you for your help. I went to the range today think I have found a load I can live with. 35G of P, a wonder wad and the .457 ball. I used cci #11 caps. In researching caps I discovered there is a difference. It seems a hot cap will effect the pattern and in my case an adjustment in powder. I did bench rest but was still a little wobble. Pattern at 25 yds 2 7/8 wide 2 1/2 high (6 shots). I'm sure I can do better if I could hold still. I will be hunting Deer in Iowa late December. My Knight rifle is the main gun but if I get a shot at 25yd or less the Ruger will come into play.

[mykeal]

Shooting a whitetail with an ROA is not good hunting practice. Unless you are experienced and and a very, very good shot I don't recommend it. The load is just not powerful enough to cause a kill unless you hit a vital spot directly. The chances are much greater that you will wound the animal enough to cause flight but not enough to incapacitate it quickly. All the experienced hunters I know that use handguns use Dragoons or Walkers with heavy (for those guns) loads, and then only if they have a 25-35 yard profile shot.

[Shawnee]

I'm with Mykeal on deer hunting with the ROA. Will add if you carry the ROA in addition to a muzzleloading rifle you're gonna discover the ROA is a whale of a lot more portable at the beginning of the day than it is at the end of the day.:(

I deer hunt with a Ruger Super Blackhawk - no rifle - and it is astounding how many pounds that revolver can gain in 6 or 7 hours!

[MutinousDoug]

Idasr,
You might ask yourself how you are going to cock your ROA without "your" deer hearing it at 25 yds?
I wouldn't hesitate to hunt from a stand with a ROA and a 3" group is adequate, but the gun would be in my lap, cocked, gloved thumb between hammer and frame, after getting into position. A little awkward up there when you've got a rifle to deal with too.
I'd probably use a conical bullet too.
Agree with Shawnee re: carrying weight. Bought a Blackhawk .41 mag after a cougar sniffed up my ground blind while bow hunting. Sold that after not seeing another for 15 years. Carry a Ruger Bearcub as backup now (.22lr: better grouse/rabbit gun).
/be glad to never see a cougar that close again.
//In the woods, anyway.

[ArmedBear]

Isn't the Old Army a simple single-action?

If so, you can avoid the CLICK and just hold the trigger while cocking it, right?

I don't have one; I have a few similar replicas, though, including both of the guns that inspired the ROA design (58 Remington and Rogers & Spencer). I thought the internals were similar.

[Jamie C.]

If so, you can avoid the CLICK and just hold the trigger while cocking it, right?

Yeah, you can avoid all but the click of the cylinder bolt falling into place by holding back the trigger.

Just don't let your thumb slip off the hammer while doing it. :what: :eek:


J.C.

[mykeal]

MOST of the time a whitetail reacts to two alerts; he/she looks at the first and flees at the second. The alerts can be any combination of sight, smell or hearing. Thus if a whitetail senses you by, for instance, seeing motion, it will first look at you to see if there's really a threat. This will put it on alert. If it then sees another motion, or hears a click, it will flee.

The trick is to make sure that the first alert is the click, so that the second alert is the smoke from the barrel. You can do that if he/she does not see you take aim or get an smell alert.

Avoiding the click by holding the trigger will work on an ROA, but you need to have practiced it several times as it is not easy to do without unnecessary motion that might cause the second alert (assuming first alert was taking aim).

And again, an ROA is not the weapon of choice for whitetail without much experience and expertise. You just take too great a chance of wounding rather than killing. It's not worth it, in my opinion.

[Zeke/PA]

It seems like I get to extol the virtues of the Old Army about once a month on this forum.
I shoot a home cast .457 ball over 30 grs. of 3x with just enough corn meal to allow the ball to seat 1/16 inches below the mouth if the cylinder.
I also grease the cylinder mouth.
This load is very accurate in my pistol and I use it often for squirrel hunting.
I have taken one deer with the Old Army.
A large doe came within 20 yds. of my treestand one morning.
With my butt on the platform, my back against the tree and the pistol across my knees, I shot the deer behind the ear resulting in an almost instant kill.
I truly love the Old Army and it is without a doubt the most accurate handgun in my arsenal.
Respectfully, Zeke

[motorcycle_dan]

Happy for you. ROA is a fine C&B pistol. But I notice you need a bigger Arsenal.

But we are each "best" with what we are most familiar (wives excluded)

I've got an old 1911 with which I can beat up bowling pins at 100 yards. Never had to blood track a bowl'n pin tho... I suspect it would not have walked too far.

[unspellable]

As for the ROA being inspired by the Remington or Rogers & Spencer, I always thought it looked somewhat like a Whitney. Probably borrows a point here and a point there, most of them from the Blackhawk.

[Chuck Dye]

Lyman's Black Powder Handbook, first edition, gives the ballistic coefficient of a .457 round ball as .064, weight as 143 grains. The heaviest load listed for the Ruger is 41.0 grains of FFFFg yielding a muzzle velocity of 1021 fps. Be aware that equal loads of different brand powders can produce significantly different velocities.

The Lyman book is, to me, a must have for black powder shooting. Try you local gun shops first, they need the income.

[ldasr]

Wow, never thought I'd stir up so much controversy. First of all I've been hunting Deer over 45 years and have never lost one. I only take killing shots or they walk. My best friend shot and killed a deer at 60 yards with his Ruger using 43g of P. I intend to use mine from a box stand and only if the Deer is less than 20 yards. Thanks Huck Phinn, I will purchase the book asap. By the way unspellable, I will be hunting in Sac County on private land.

[Zeke/PA]

Motorcycle Dan,
Actually my arsenal is quite extensive and the Old Army is one of eleven handguns.
I use only two for hunting however, one being a Super Blackhawk (six deer kills) and the other the Old Army.
I shoot MOST of my handguns often and the Old Army is the only one capable of consistant cloverleaf groups at twenty yards(bench rest of course).
My hunting is mostly done from a treestand and using archery disapline, clean quick handgun kills are possible.
For my annual squirrel hunt this year however, I may shelve the Old Army in favor of my new Savage rifle in .17HMR.
Respectfully, Zeke