[jnormanh]

I was recently in a flea market near Paris where I was offered an unusual shotgun. It was a 16 gauge SxS, in nice condition and appeared well made - BUT it was unusual in that it did not use firing pins and primered shells, rather it used some sort of electrical ignition and special shells. I'd like to learn more about this gun, but I didn't rermember to ask the manufacturer's name. Does anyone recognize this gun? Does it have any value as a collectable?

[Oldnamvet]

About the only electric ignition system I know of for personal long guns is
http://www.outdoorlife.com/outdoor/gear/fieldtested/article/0,20280,rifles-0027,00.html
and I have yet to see one. I don't know if they ever started production. But they claimed that it would really help for shotguns...reducing the lock time when you are shooting at a moving target.

[jnormanh]

<<<About the only electric ignition system I know of for personal long guns is
http://www.outdoorlife.com/outdoor/g...s-0027,00.html
and I have yet to see one. I don't know if they ever started production. But they claimed that it would really help for shotguns...reducing the lock time when you are shooting at a moving target.>>>

Yes, i believe that's the idea, but the gun I was looking at is about 50 or so years old, and is a french shotgun. thanks.

[SDC]

I don't believe I've heard of anything like that in the shotgun line; did you manage to get a look at the ammo? Maybe it was a pinfire, and he didn't know what he had? Pinfire ammo looks like this:
http://guns.connect.fi/gow/qalefauc.gif

[jnormanh]

No, I'm certain it is electrical ignition. I do remember reading aboiut that desgn, somewhere, but I can't find the reference.

[hockeybum]

its so odd cause it french... :evil:

[Novus Collectus]

Was it a French military rifle? If it was then you know it was probably never used and only dropped once. :D

I second the pinfire possibility. If it had a hammer of some type, then that is a give away. But maybe it is possible it was an experimental conversion to fire using electricity to fire the primer. I am sure that someone would have thought about the idea fifty years ago.

[FIFTYGUY]

I've got a live, unfired French 12ga electric-primed casing. Markings as follows:

black paper hull;
headstamp: "12 MUNITIONS 12 M.G.M.",
on side of paper hull: "MUNITION ELECTRIQUE (lightning bolts) S.M.F.M SAINT-ETIENNE BREVETS FRANCAIS ET ETRANGERS"

So there must've been at least some experimentation over there. The "ET ETRANGERS" would seem to imply that St. Etienne was still nominally marketing to foreign countries as well.

There was a bit of experimentation over here, too. I've seen an electric-primed Remington experimental 12ga round, and I've got a Winchester 12ga caseless experimental live round that's ostensibly electric-primed.

[FIFTYGUY]

I'd like to add that electric-primed shotgun-type cartridges are certainly not some new invention. I just recalled that the old Coffman engine-starting cartridges (see the "Flight of the Phoenix" movies) were electric-primed.

The "Coffman" (popular brand name) starters used essentially shotgun shells to provide the power to pneumatic starter motors that in turn cranked over the engine. This system was widely used on farm tractors, aircraft engines, and some tanks. Very close to the pure pneumatic starting method, using compressed air, and in fact some compressed air systems were easily retrofit. The gas pressure also served the additional function of the starter solenoid, in that it engaged the starting motor to the flywheel gear teeth by means of a piston.

Very popular pre- and through- WWII, gradually replaced by electric starters as batteries and electric motors became smaller, lighter, and more reliable.

Anyhow, I've got three "Coffman" starter cartridges, all WWII era. They are really just elongated paper-hulled 4 Gauge shells. They have battery-cup primers, but they have a metal tab over the primer center as part of the primer assembly and are almost certainly electric-primed. Very unique-looking primer.

BTW, the recent remake of the "Flight of the Phoenix" erroneously shows plain 12 ga hulls as starter cartridges. The ones in the old Jimmy Stewart original are correct, IIRC. And IMHO the original was a much better movie.

[Jim Watson]

Yes, I somewhere have an old gun magazine with a report on the Fusil Electrique, briefly sold here by Abercrombie and Fitch. The real one, where Griffin & Howe did the gunsmithing. Fiftyguy probably has one of the shells for it.

It had electrodes instead of firing pins, the triggers were on switches, and there was a good sized battery under the buttplate. No fancy electronics, just DC current through primers made for electrical firing rather than percussion.
The author broke open some shells to get electrically primed hulls and loaded them with US powder. He said the electric primers ignited Green Dot just fine.

You would be limited by the availability of electrically primed shells or at least electric primers for reloading. Doubt there are many left and I would not give much for a gun I could not shoot.

[SDC]

I found an interesting page in French describing an electrically-ignited shotgun first shown by Henri Pieper (Belgium) at the Vienna Exhibition in 1883, but it includes photographs of a book written in a language that I don't recognize; any ideas? It's about half-way down on this page (translated by Google), under "Electric Pieper": http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http://www.littlegun.be/arme%2520belge/artisans%2520identifies%2520p/a%2520pieper%2520henri%2520fr.htm&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=47&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3DFusil%2Bde%2BChasse%2BElectrique%2BMunitions%26num%3D50%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DG

Edit to add: It's been identified as Romanian, but now I need someone who can read Romanian :-)