What can you tell me about semi-auto Uzi's? Worth owning one?


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SilverBomber
December 7, 2006, 02:43 AM
They seem like a handgun turned into a rifle. And for $1,000, it seems like a high price for a small 9mm round that won't do much damage.

Obviously this was designed for full-auto, and has no sporting purpose.

Would you consider owning one for defensive purposes?

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Clean97GTI
December 7, 2006, 02:47 AM
I'd have no problem using one as a home defense weapon as I'm currently using normal handguns right now.

SilverBomber
December 7, 2006, 02:53 AM
Is there anything that makes them worth the cost?

I believe there's a 32 rd mag. which is nice.

thexrayboy
December 7, 2006, 02:53 AM
Is it worth owning? Depends on you really. It is as effective as any other 9mm
of similar barrel length in terms of ballistic energy. It has the ability to accept large capacity mags, (as in 30+ rounds). It is well engineered. The fact that it is semi auto as opposed to full auto is for the most part a secondary consideration at best. Full auto is designed for military type endeavors. Few if any of us will ever face a situtation where we really really need full auto instead of semi auto. 1K$ is a fair amount for a weapon but many weapons such as the Kimbers etc. approach that price tag. It's really like any other choice of gun purchase. What are my needs, how does this fill my needs, and does the price match those criteria.

Or you can be like me and some others. Buy it just because you can and it's a cool addition to the collection.

Glockfan.45
December 7, 2006, 03:00 AM
First let me state that a weapons sporting purpose has nothing to do with its legitamacy before this goes any further. But no I think a semi-auto UZI is pointless. If you want a high capacity 9mm get a Glock and a few of their 33round mags. The semi UZI is just an overgrown pistol too big to be practical, and a clumsy rifle with a round too weak to be effective. But who am I to judge? If you want a SA UZI thats your right :confused: .

Handgun Midas
December 7, 2006, 03:01 AM
has no sporting purposeWhy would you even say something like that?

Firearms are for freedom, protection, sport, and hunting - in any combination, mostly in that order.

There's no personal firearm that has no sporting purpose.
There's no personal firearm that has no hunting purpose.
There's no personal firearm that has no protective purpose. (even .22)

Declaring that any firearm lacks any of the above purposes is the divide&conquer
tactic of the anti-gunners and I'm honestly surprised to see it pop up here.

SilverBomber
December 7, 2006, 03:05 AM
you're right. I guess what I was trying to say was that this gun might be used more for defense, and not hunting/target shooting.

Wrong choice of words on my part.

Glockfan.45
December 7, 2006, 03:12 AM
Ok just watch your wording round here. Folks get kinda touchy when we here terms like "sporting purpose" that term gets guns banned. Like I said a glock with a 33 round magazine, or a real rifle would be a better choice IMO. The SA long barrel UZI is the answer to a problem that doesnt exist. Welcome to THR by the way.

Handgun Midas
December 7, 2006, 03:22 AM
Personally, I think a a semi uzi is an oversized, overpriced package for 9mm.
There are more ergonomic 9mm carbines out there, and they are likely cheaper.

It you are serious about a defense gun, you should consider two things:

1: Effective caliber for the job. There's enough opponents of 9mm as a defensive cartridge
that you should give it some real thought, is all I'm saying. (have I contradicted myself? well, caliber can equate to confidence)

2: What is your weapon going to look like to the DA and the sheeple jury when and if you use the weapon in home defense.
To most people, the Uzi is an evil, scary, black thing; and it's apt to paint you in a whole different light than something with wood on it.

On the other hand, maybe the uzi would be scary enough to frighten the intruder(s) away and you won't have to fire.
Cuz how do they know it's not full auto? But I wouldn't count on it.

If your shopping for an exclusive home defense gun, I'd begin by looking at shotguns, and then .357 wheelguns and .40 or .45 autos.


Welcome to THR

SilverBomber
December 7, 2006, 03:51 AM
Well I've got an AK that should work well as a home defense firearm. I just stumbled upon some uzi's for sale and started looking into them.

I apologize for my wording, as you can see I don't have alot of experience with guns.

But I have been trying to learn quickly in case of a ban.

I bought an AK before I ever fired a gun before. I'm also going to be purchasing a .50 cal rifle, probably an Armalite AR50.

For some reason anything that looks like it's going to be banned soon, I have to have one.

thexrayboy
December 7, 2006, 04:20 AM
The terms "sporting purpose" and "firearms" should probably not be allowed to reside in the same location. "Sporting purpose" is just prose thought up to justify banning any guns that don't meet the artificially contrived standards of
"sporting purpose". Whenever someone asks what is the "sporting purpose"
of any particular firearm our reply as gun owners should be, "thats an irrelevant question. A gun does not have to meet a "sporting purpose" anymore than a motor vehicle needs to meet a "road race standard"." It simply needs to be engineered properly to perform its intended function, to wit, placing a bullet on target with maximum efficiency.

gunsmith
December 7, 2006, 05:14 AM
go for an AR10 and use the extra money left over for lots of ammo, you get a rifle that can shoot long distance, double as both hunting and battle rifle, proven "man stopper".

for home defense an AK may over penetrate and go thru the bad guy, thru the wall and kill the nice person sleeping in their bed across the street.

A shot gun or 9mm carbine should be fine for home defense

El Tejon
December 7, 2006, 07:42 AM
Lots of fun.:) With the closed bolt you can smack stuff out to 100 with no problem.

It's a range toy, but nothing wrong with having fun! Worth it depends on the buyer. Remember in the gun culture the subjective is objective.;)

71Commander
December 7, 2006, 09:11 AM
Where did you see one for a grand? I bought my IMI used for 1,200.00.

UZI's have several uses. I use mine for 3 gun competition and for PCC (pistol caliber carbine) competition.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/tucker13/uzi.jpg

Keith Wheeler
December 7, 2006, 09:43 AM
Alrighty, lots to cover here.

Price: an original IMI will set you back a minimum of $1000, up to $1400, unless you want an IMI Mini Uzi, expect $2k. However there are Vector Arms and Norinco "clones" in the $600 to $800 range. The Norinco 320 is a clone, with typical Chinese ugly finish quality, but they are solid, and used to be cheap. A lot of Uzi owners have had Norincos as a "first" Uzi, myself included, and they are far more reliable than their ugly Chinese finish lets on. The Vector guns are partial clones, in that many of the receivers used were IMI, as well as a lot of the other parts. Some Vectors are built on Group Industry receivers, and some parts Vector had manufactured. IMI parts exchange with all Vector, Norinco, and Group Industries clones.

Yes, there are cheaper, lighter weight civilian type pistol cal carbines out there. If that's what you want, great, go for it, however if you want some history and a bit more of an investment, go for an IMI Uzi.

Uzis are reliable, simple, and designed to be field stripped and repaired with practically no tools. Barrel changes occur in seconds. There are more parts and accessories for Uzis than most civie pistol cal carbines combined. Don't want 9mm? How about .45? Or .40? If you just like being oddball, there's always .41AE. Too expensive? Convert to .22. And it takes longer to explain how to change calibers on an Uzi than to actually do it. Remove magazine and clear the weapon. Depress top cover latch, remove top cover. Remove bolt and striker assembly. Depress barrel nut catch, remove barrel nut and barrel. Replace barrel and bolt assembly with desired caliber. You're done, now your "underpowered" 9mm Uzi is a .40 or a .45.

Gear geek? Shoulder holsters, scope mounts, side cocking uppers, rails, bayonets, lights, tons and tons of Israeli mags and web gear, fixed or folding stocks. Stick with IMI military or "Action Arms" civie market magazines. They are of high quality and reliable. 32 rnd IMI mags can be had for $15, if you know where to look.

Got a few grand burning a hole in your pocket? Buy a registered bolt and you've got an SMG. Want the short barrel look but not the FA? File the $200 Form 1 for an SBR and $50 to $80 for a barrel and you've got a compact, 32 round, super reliable, very accurate 9mm that can fire +P+ sugbun ammo (not to be confused with +P pistol loads) all day long and fit in your briefcase. Don't want to deal with tax stamps? Well you can still pull the barrel and fit the thing in a briefcase.

Want quiet? You don't need a special threaded barrel, the best suppressors for Uzis replace the barrel nut. (Note: only for SMG length barrels).

Got collector fever? IMI, Vector, Norinco, Group Industries. Full size, mini, and pistol. Furniture is available in a wide range of colors. Buy a cheap(er) Norinco, and duracoat it desert tan with tan grips (one of my projects).

History? Wow. From helping build/defend a nation to protecting presidents. My vector and my wife's Mini Uzi both have Hebrew selector markings, that's a nifty little bonus.

Yeah, there are lighter, cheaper, more ergonomic "better" plastic civilians things out there, and again, if those are your criteria then you're better with lighter cheaper plastic. If you want history and something a bit more solid, go Uzi. There's an Uzi rental SMG at a range in Las Vegas that has fired over a million rounds. I wonder how many of the plastic 9mm carbine of the month guns will be able to make that claim in a few decades?

Home defense? I live on some acreage in a semi-rural area. An SBR'ed Uzi with full stick sure feels nice in the passenger seat of the "farm truck". Even better is my wife's Mini Uzi. Still waiting on the Form 1 to come back on that one. In my mind that's a great little self/property defense item. The stability of a rifle with the manuverable envelope of a pistol, 32 rounds of ammo, and bet-your-life-on-it reliability.

I love my Uzis. And so does everyone that I've let fire them. If you're ever my way, give me a shout, I love spreading the Uzi "sickness".

Of course it doesn't hurt my feelings at all that they've got "Made in Israel" on the side (both our Vectors were built on IMI receivers).

:)

outofbattery
December 7, 2006, 09:45 AM
Some of the internet noise about 9mm is about getting out of hand - too weak to be effective,small round that won't do damage?:barf:

Logan5
December 7, 2006, 10:02 AM
Waaaay back when, I had one of the Action Arms/IMI micro's with the shoulder rig and three mags ($500 out the door!) It was actually quite accurate and very easy to shoot, even compared to full size 9mm service pistols like the (then cutting edge) Sig P226 or Beretta 92SB, since such a heavy 9mm is very steady even during recoil. Nice trigger too, opposite of what I expected. At 50 feet, it could really tear out a ten ring. It had a lot going for it as a pure range fun gun. And target shooting is a sport, you know. I have some trophies with a little guy with a gun on top to prove it.

I wish I'd been smart enough to hang on to it and triple my money back... I hope it found a happy home. Since I live in what has since become a ban state, I'll probably never get a chance to own another one.

Keith Wheeler
December 7, 2006, 10:03 AM
Not the best pic, here are two of ours with the barrels out.

Oh, and here's my answer to SilverBomber's second question, much less long-winded than the answer to "what can you tell me...".

"Worth owning one?" Nah. Most Uzi folks have more than one!

Logan5 -- I'm not familiar with CT's laws. If your ban is a by make/model ban, look at the Norinco 320. That's why I bought one, I was in Cali when it was a by model ban, and while "Uzi" was on the list, "Norinco 320" wasn't.


http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=45949&d=1160105606

armoredman
December 7, 2006, 10:13 AM
I had a Model B back about 17 years ago. Worst jammamatic I ever owned. Sorry, to the UZI purists, but that carbine made a Jennings look reliable. I traded it for a Spingfield 1911A1, a .380, (can't even remember what make, it was a gift for my brother.), and a PILE of ammo.
The guy who bought it didn't want to shoot it, just for the lucky serial number...4 out of 5 were 7s.

Keith Wheeler
December 7, 2006, 10:20 AM
Worst jammamatic I ever owned.

Probably had a bad or filthy extractor. Debris will build up in the extrator hole in the bolt and you'll get a lot of FTE. Cleaning it usually does the trick. I've also seen damaged extractors/ejectors cause FTE. The semi extractor has, for whatever reason, a smaller claw than the SMG variant. Some folks swap 'em out and keep going.

Also, an Uzi likes to run "wet".

Justin
December 7, 2006, 10:37 AM
I have no use for one. A semi-auto UZI is just an overgrown pistol.

Keith Wheeler
December 7, 2006, 10:47 AM
A semi-auto UZI is just an overgrown pistol.

Yep. An incredibly accurate easy to shoot pistol with a buttstock. Difference between and Uzi and Glock with a frankenmag? You'll be able to hit stuff with the Uzi at 100 yards.

30 cal slob
December 7, 2006, 11:14 AM
semi auto uzi is a fun gun. why not?

anyways, the full auto uzi subgun is a different proposition.

marry it to an AWC MK-9 suppressor, and you have one heck of a schweet setup.

those two were made for each other, like peanut butter 'n jelly.

default
December 7, 2006, 11:40 AM
To each their own. As far as I can tell, a semi-auto closed-bolt Uzi or MAC ultimately has one purpose that couldn't be served by a G17 with a 33-round mag or a decent 9mm carbine - it actually more or less looks like a submachine gun. If that is worth the extra money (and I can understand why one might think so), then more power to you. As for myself, assuming I already had a reliable high-capacity handgun and an intermediate-caliber selfloading rifle, I'd almost rather spend the money on a bunch of high-end airsoft replicas, as my pleasure in owning a Vector Uzi, for example, would consist primarily in looking at it. But that's just me, and diversity of opinion makes the firearms world go round.

One further thing - semiauto clones of AKs, ARs, FALs, etc., are a little different than the type of gun under discussion here. At least in most types I'm aware of, semi-auto SMG clones have a substantially different mechanism than their military and police-issue counterparts. The Uzi and the MAC, as I understand it, were designed to be simple, cheap, and dissipate chamber heat quickly, and thus fire from an open bolt. Redesigned to be closed-bolt semi-autos, they become giant, heavy, and comparatively expensive pistols.

This is not the case with many of the semi-auto assault and battle rifles available today - apart from the modifications to the trigger group, many are essentially mechanically identical to their select-fire versions, small variations to the bolt, receiver, etc., aside. Even only able to fire a single shot per trigger pull, an Arsenal AK still brings to the table all the features that make an original Russian AKM reliable - bolt over-travel, oversized gas system, etc. And a Bushmaster AR has all the stuff that helps make a real M16 accurate - direct gas impingement, non-reciprocating charging handle, and so on.

Finally, I want an HK VP70. It's huge, magazines are hard to come by, the slide doesn't lock open, and I'm told it has the worst DAO trigger pull ever. So what? They're cool, and they were featured in Aliens. Good enough reasons for me. :)

Keith Wheeler
December 7, 2006, 11:53 AM
The Uzi and the MAC, as I understand it, were designed to be simple, cheap, and dissipate chamber heat quickly, and thus fire from an open bolt. Redesigned to be closed-bolt semi-autos, they become giant, heavy, and comparatively expensive pistols.

Some full-auto Uzis (mini Uzi, micro Uzi) were closed bolt.

The big difference, mechanically, between semi and SMG Uzis, is the bolt. Fixed firing pin on the classic open bolt SMG, a floating "striker" assembly on the semi. The other mechanical differences are there due to American regs. The SMG lower and semi lower are the same, except there's a block to keep the semi lower from going to the forward full auto position. You can make a semi bolt from an SMG bolt; many of the Vector bolts were made this way.

Redesigned to be closed-bolt semi-autos, they become giant, heavy, and comparatively expensive pistols.

Again, heavy pistols with buttstocks and very low recoil. My wife's mini Uzi is one of the fastest cycling semis I've ever handled. You can burn through a 32 rnd mag fast, and since 1) it has a buttstock, and 2) it's heavy, the grouping is incredible, considering the ROF. And I'd love to see a pistol that can handle the subgun ammo an Uzi will eat.

Arg. Anyway, enough talk.

When are all you high capacity Glock guys gonna come to Arkansas so we can cut the talk and set up some targets? :D

default
December 7, 2006, 12:09 PM
Good points, Keith. However, for most people, a semi-auto Uzi would be a range toy, rather than a practical gun - which is just fine by me. And I would still maintain that much of the purpose of an open-bolt SMG is defeated when it becomes a closed-bolt semi-auto - unlike selfloading rifles based on military designs. I acknowledge that a semi-auto Uzi probably makes for an accurate, easy-shooting, and durable carbine. But I agree, enough talk, time to shoot! :)

Keith Wheeler
December 7, 2006, 12:13 PM
But I agree, enough talk, time to shoot!

Yep, just make sure none of the Glock guys load my Hirtenberger in their pistols.

:evil:

And yeah, I'm a bit of an Uzi fanatic. But then I'm a bit of an Israeli weapons fanatic. I'd blabble on and on about my Izzy FALs, Galils, and even my 1919 if that was the topic.

For most people an Uzi is just a fun gun; for me it's a bit more.

Starter52
December 7, 2006, 12:24 PM
"to each his own" is a good comment. I've shot the semi-Uzi and I didn't like it. I shot a full-auto Uzi and didn't much like it, either.

There are better 9mm carbines on the market. I'd buy a Beretta Storm rather than pay that kind of money for an Uzi.

M2 Carbine
December 7, 2006, 12:26 PM
I've had one for many years.
I'd never get rid of it.

I don't try to justify buying a gun by using the argument that it is or is not a good defense gun. Just how many gun fights do you think you're going to get in to and how many guns do you need for defense?

The UZI is an interesting gun and is fun to shoot.
If I had to shoot someone with it, I suspect it will do as well as any 32 shot 16 inch barrel 9mm.

up_onus
December 7, 2006, 12:34 PM
I shot a full auto uzi and wanted one, but 12k pricetag just takes it out of me...
Reading this thread makes me want to own a semi-auto!!!
They sound like a lot of fun, and how can you argue with 32 rounds, and all the bonus features???
i wanna wanna have one....

also, i think people who harp on 9mm as a pistol cartridge forget that this is more of a rifle cartridge...
more barrel length = more pressure = more velocity = more ENERGY, ima go out on a limb and say that a 9mm round out of a uzi has the same OR MORE energy than a 45 out of a 4 inch barrel.

71Commander
December 7, 2006, 01:13 PM
The 147's are around 1800 FPS. That's no pistol stat.

gandog56
December 7, 2006, 01:16 PM
I look at it this way. You want a pistol, buy a pistol. You want a rifle for 9mm, a Hi-Point is one heck of a lot cheaper. An Uzi is just an overgrown toy.

71Commander
December 7, 2006, 01:38 PM
As I stated earlier, I shoot 3 gun and PCC and I have never, ever, ever, EVER seen a Hi-point used. Competitors value their lives.:evil:

Texfire
December 7, 2006, 01:41 PM
I don't understand the need of some people to denegrate other people's choices. Poodle-shooter, plastic gun, overgrown toy, overpriced piece of junk, commie trash; all adjectives designed to dismiss and demean.

Are we not all shooters? Do we not have enough people who don't agree with our opinions on the right to keep and bear arms, that we feel the need to go out and seek to marginalize others who share our common values? So you don't like a particular gun, that doesn't mean that someone else who likes it is wrong. Can we try a little more tolerance and put down the dismissive rhetoric?

Sorry, I'll step off my soapbox, but I wonder sometimes...

Tex

Keith Wheeler
December 7, 2006, 01:52 PM
This guy (and his employers) sure have great taste in "toys":

http://www.vectorarms.com/photos/ss_uzi.jpg

Texfire it seems to be this -- if anyone spends less on a gun than yours, it's a piece of cheap junk. If they spend more, then it's an overpriced toy. Just look at all the NFA threads, "yeah, it's fun, but it's stupid to spend that much money". Kind of like a Ferrari huh?

:)

Glockfan.45
December 7, 2006, 03:12 PM
Some of the internet noise about 9mm is about getting out of hand - too weak to be effective,small round that won't do damage?

My reply had nothing to do with 9mm bashing. I was stating that if one must follow the laws regarding whats legal (without going class III) and have a 16inch barrel, and SA then there are better options than an UZI clone. I also dont see the point in 9mm AR carbines, and .223 AR pistols but if thats what you want fine. But dont get your panties in a bunch when someone ask for my opinion and I give it to them. I am sure your UZI is a fun toy, I have shot full auto UZI's and yes they are a blast. However if I have to have a 16 inch barrel to be legit then I would rather have a real rifle in a real rifle caliber.

Keith Wheeler
December 7, 2006, 03:50 PM
However if I have to have a 16 inch barrel to be legit then I would rather have a real rifle in a real rifle caliber.

Which is why I file Form 1s on mine. All of my 9mm semi carbines (five total) have been or are in the process of being "SBR'd".

But, like others have said, just how many of your guns do you plan to fight a war with? I've got 5.56mm rifles and 7.62mm rifles. But they don't fit in a backpack or briefcase the way an Uzi or Sterling (SBR) will. But that's just me.

I still don't see the reason why everyone has to do the "toy" insult. If you want to stand 100 yards downrange from a semi mini Uzi loaded with +P+ and call it a "toy" I guess that's fine. Personally I've got too much respect for firearms to call any of them toys, but then maybe the folks I learned gun safety from were a bit too strict on me.

Another thing I don't understand is why so many folks get their "panties in a bunch" over a measly $200 tax stamp. Sheesh, and I'm supposed to be the tightwad. :neener:

possum
December 7, 2006, 03:54 PM
it seems like a high price for a small 9mm round that won't do much damage.

Someone BOO that man! :)
someone please fill this guy in on what "damage" a 9mm can do.

buzz_knox
December 7, 2006, 04:09 PM
I think there are three points to owing one:

1. It's fun

2. It's a great addition to a collection.

3. It's your right.

BrennanKG
December 7, 2006, 04:41 PM
Keith,

Thanks for all the info on UZIs!
:)

I was drooling over a wood-stocked carbine at the SA gun show last weekend.
Talk about a blast from the past. Maybe now that I'm out of PRK I should look into one.

So in your opinion a Vector would be a decent starting point for an UZI?


B.

Gary G23
December 7, 2006, 05:12 PM
A CZ pistol with a 25rd magazine seems more practical to me. I used to own a full auto UZI but there is no way I would own a semi.

Keith Wheeler
December 7, 2006, 05:15 PM
Vectors are good guns. They've had a couple of issues, but will stand behind them and fix anything wrong.

The issues were, and I stress were:

1) Weak recoil springs
2) Incorrect bolt geometry
3) A batch were tested with corrosive ammo

They've solved all of these. When buying a Vector just keep in mind that Vector isn't a full-blown firearms corporation, but rather a small business. They didn't design these guns, they are building somebody else's design on somebody else's receivers, and like any such endeavor there was an associated learning curve.

Our Vectors both have IMI receivers. Some Group Industries receivers had issues -- they basically weren't straight. Group Industries' receivers were built on Group's own US made tooling after the international rights to the Uzi expired. Vector bought a bunch of the Group Industries receivers, including the pre-86 registered SMGs.

Like I said, Vector will stand behind their guns, so if you do happen to pick up one of their early ones with issues, it'll get fixed. While some in the "Uzi community" have had negative things to say about the QC on these early Vectors, even the guys with high dollar NFA Uzis send their guns to Vector for repair and refinish.

For those who have never handled one, an Uzi is nothing like a MAC or other such item commonly referred to as an "Uzi". An Uzi is a fine military firearm, designed to last. I've owned a number of MACs over the years, many semis and one SMG. I still like MACs, but I sold all of mine for something with more history and quality. That "something" was the Uzis (well, and my Sterlings, but that's another story...) I wouldn't mind having an SMG, but for the cost I'd rather have five or six different guns for the collection rather than one.

Our Uzis were the foundation of our Israeli collection.

Want more info? http://www.uzitalk.com/

BrennanKG
December 7, 2006, 05:38 PM
Keith,

Thanks. I've been looking into Vector's products a bit. Their V93 is something I was looking at but now that I have my heart set on an XCR, I don't want another 223, I want a pistol calibur carbine in 9mm (already have an HK USC biding its time to be "UMP'd"). I'm especially interested in an UZI as a less cost-prohibitive alternative to the PS90. It's not even really the cost of the PS90 itself that bothers me, it's the ammo.

I'll check out UZItalk.

B.

doofus
December 7, 2006, 06:25 PM
The 9mm is weak...sure. A semi-auto Uzi is pointless...right.

My follow up questions would be:
1. Why is the 9mm suddenly not so bad when it's coming down the barrel of a semi-auto MP5? Most people with an interest in sub-guns (presumably including those who've bothered to post on this thread) would wet themselves for an MP5, semi-auto or not.

2. How is a semi-auto Uzi a comparatively poor choice when held up against an MP5?

torpid
December 7, 2006, 07:28 PM
I shot one back in the day and was pleased with the accuracy.

I certainly wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of those "gnatlike" 9mm rounds, no matter how annoyingly ineffective... 'cause there's always the freak chance one might break the skin and cause an infection later. :rolleyes:

(Seriously, if you did have one for some reason, common sense dictates that it could be used effectively to stop a life-threatening attack.)

Glockfan.45
December 7, 2006, 07:40 PM
Another thing I don't understand is why so many folks get their "panties in a bunch" over a measly $200 tax stamp. Sheesh, and I'm supposed to be the tightwad.


Well Keith because we dont all live where that is an option, also not every cheif LEO will sign off on the form. When I lived in Minn I looked into buying a V-51, the county sheriff said no end of story. I never knocked anybody for wanting a SA UZI. I was asked an opinion and I gave it. I never knocked the 9mm either. I said if I had to have rifle length I would rather have a rifle round. You like your UZI great. I have shot them before and think of them as nothing more than bullet hoses. How many guns I could carry into battle is beside the point. I doubt many people on these forums could carry their whole collection into battle, or would want to. Some guns are just toys in my collection. I would never take my jennings into battle, I bought it because I could and playing with a .25auto can be fun at times.

Prince Yamato
December 7, 2006, 08:30 PM
2: What is your weapon going to look like to the DA and the sheeple jury when and if you use the weapon in home defense.
To most people, the Uzi is an evil, scary, black thing; and it's apt to paint you in a whole different light than something with wood on it.

On the other hand, maybe the uzi would be scary enough to frighten the intruder(s) away and you won't have to fire.
Cuz how do they know it's not full auto? But I wouldn't count on it.

This is brings up a great point, depending on what state you're in. If the BG survives and sues you in a civil trial, you're going to look great defending yourself and why you used a "machinegun" when you could have used a "Glock, like everyone else does."

I've shot Uzis, they're beautiful guns (the full-autos anyway). They're good carbines. Great for time at the range and probably great for whatever the IDF used them for. For home defense or carry, get a standard pistol.

torpid
December 7, 2006, 09:19 PM
This is brings up a great point, depending on what state you're in. If the BG survives and sues you in a civil trial, you're going to look great defending yourself and why you used a "machinegun" when you could have used a "Glock, like everyone else does."

In some places "Uzi" or "Glock" wouldn't make much of a difference.

Either generally recognizable "evil buzzword" would be bad.

default
December 7, 2006, 09:26 PM
I think some of the resistance to the Uzi carbines is based on the fact that they could be seen as a "fake" or "neutered" version of a short-barrelled, fully automatic military/police firearm, despite the fact that they are obviously real guns, and a 9mm round from a "fake" Uzi is no less deadly than one from a "real" one.

Some people would rather have an SKS or a Garand than a MAK90 or HK91, and not necessarily because they are "better" or "more practical", but for the simple reason that they can be had in all their fully-featured and unmodified glory without much hassle.

I might gaze in envy at, for example, photos of Hungarian tank crews with their totally real, manufactured and assembled in Hungary, select-fire, short-barrelled AMD-65s. Chances are I'll never have one. I don't gaze in envy at the holsters of local cops. If I wanted a GLOCK 22, I could just go buy one, complete with accessory rails, night sights, and 15-round magazines.

Again, to each their own. I've handled a Vector Uzi and it seemed like a very well-made gun, and undoubtedly lots of fun to shoot, and apparently accurate, durable, and reliable as well. There are all sorts of people, and all sorts of guns. I'm not into 9mm carbines or snubbie revolvers, and I'm sure there are plenty of people here who don't like polymer autos or East-bloc milsurps. Yet here we are. Ain't guns grand? :)

SniperStraz
December 7, 2006, 09:40 PM
I was trained on an UZI for a Para-Military K-9 unit in Israel. I can tell you that the UZI is alot of fun. In combat they're great for short range and clearing houses, but for HD they're kinda an overkill. I would have to agree with Glockfan.45. You can easily get a glock with a 30 round mag. To top it all off you can get a butt stock and a fore grip for your glock. The whole package will cost you about $1000 and you can use the glock for CC too. Not to mention that you have a greater variety of calibers. If you're really set on a rifle/carbine you can go with a Hi-Point for $150 and spend the other $850 on ammo:neener: . Either way, have fun and stay safe.
P.S. Tenn thats the craziest barrel I've ever seen on an UZI. I love it!

Keith Wheeler
December 7, 2006, 10:36 PM
Well Keith because we dont all live where that is an option, also not every cheif LEO will sign off on the form. When I lived in Minn I looked into buying a V-51, the county sheriff said no end of story.

Form an LLC or a Trust, you can transfer NFA weapons to a corporate entity without CLEO signature. A corporate entity can even "make" SBR/SBS on a Form 1 for their own use, again no CLEO sign-off required.

In combat they're great for short range and clearing houses, but for HD they're kinda an overkill.

Overkill for home defense if all you're defending is a home...I on the other hand live on a number of acres (still not as much as I want) and I like something that's nice out to 100 yards without the kaboom! of a rifle, considering I get to deal with things out here that "city folk" don't have to. I've used it a few times -- not against people obviously, but there's more to worry about where I live than just the urban "bad guy". We've lost livestock to feral dogs. Sure, it's only "hobby" livestock, but anything that attacks my animals is going down. And while I'm on a few acres I really don't want to be where I'm tossing .223 or .308 around. It's a handy little carbine. Speaking of which, I could use my M1 Carbine, but I find the folding stock Uzi a bit easier to haul around in the truck. Remember not everyone on this forum is holed up in an apartment or cul-de-sac. Sure, there are other pistol caliber carbines, but 1) I primarily own Uzis as part of a collection, and 2) I stay away from non-military firearms. Just my choice. The only non-military stuff we've got is my wife's 10/22 and my stainless folder Mini-14 -- designs both of which have seen plenty of para-military if not military use. I can "easily get" most any non NFA gun I want. I don't want a Glock, that's pretty much it.

And the original poster asked (in addition to the defense question) "what can you tell me about semi-auto Uzis?".

This is brings up a great point, depending on what state you're in. If the BG survives and sues you in a civil trial, you're going to look great defending yourself and why you used a "machinegun" when you could have used a "Glock, like everyone else does."

That's why I stay very far away from states like that. Technically here in Arkansas a SBR'd Uzi is a legal "handgun" for concealed carry. Not that I would do that, when I'm off my property I carry a CZ-75.

Prince Yamato
December 7, 2006, 11:18 PM
That's why I stay very far away from states like that. Technically here in Arkansas a SBR'd Uzi is a legal "handgun" for concealed carry. Not that I would do that, when I'm off my property I carry a CZ-75.

It really doesn't matter about what state you're in for the civil trial. It matters who is on the jury and how good your lawyer is. I live in the south as well. I could carry an UZI pistol. Let me paint the picture:

Robber: Give me your money or I'll kill you.
You: Help Robber! (pull out UZI, shoots robber dead, crowd witnesses action).

In most states you're clear in terms of the main trial. You acted within the law.

The problem comes with the civil trial, where the robber's family will try to sue the crap out of you and paint you a commando for carrying an UZI.

i have nothing against UZIs, in fact I'm probably going to buy one soon, I think it shouldn't matter what you shoot someone with so long as you were justified. I think that civil trials where the victim gets sued are stupid, but they are a reality and people need to be aware of that.

Keith Wheeler
December 7, 2006, 11:27 PM
I think that civil trials where the victim gets sued are stupid, but they are a reality and people need to be aware of that.

Agreed. We've been lucky (knock on wood) to not have much problem with that in this neck of the woods.

pull out UZI, shoots robber dead, crowd witnesses action

Again, in my case, with my Uzi, there won't be a crowd. If I'm carrying a carbine of any type, it's while I'm on my land, and for whatever it's worth, it'd probably end up being my word against a dead meth junkie trying to break in to my barn to find stuff to pawn.

boredelmo
December 8, 2006, 03:47 AM
i have handled and shot my dads IMI Model A Uzi since i was 16.

i haven't shot many carbines but i can say that the low recoil and stock helps me shoot almost perfect for any HD situation. i remember reading that some people still get 3in groups from 100yards away (no proof, just something i remember reading).

ive shot approx 400 rds through mine with no FTF's or FTE's.

also i will hang on to mine forever because of the novelty and history of the gun. everytime i goto the range i get looks and questions. although some people might be unsocial people i like having a conversation piece.

i keep mine in a silver briefcase with 32 rounds readily availible. there are also 50rd mags availible.

is the $1000-$1200 price tag worth it? no, i wouldnt pay that much for one but since this one is from my dad, i love and will keep it for a long time to come.

would i pay $600 for a copy? considering all my basic gunning needs were covered and i had extra cash, DEF. its a fun gun to own and shoot.

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