[Onty]

Just noticed that Beretta manufactures SA top break revolver, model Laramie, see http://www.beretta.com/index.aspx?m=74&idc=2&ids=58 . Any comment regarding quality, fit, finish, accuracy, etc. How about retail prices? When I went to http://berettausa.com/product/product_pistols_main.htm (go to; Product Catalog, Pistols, Laramie), MSRP look quite high; $1,195 blue models, $1,375 nickel plated. Too bad that they don’t have 44 Special.

If I have it right, sliding safety bar allows all six rounds to be loaded, It drops after each shot thus preventing contact between firing pin and next round. Not that I need all six rounds loaded, but after using New Model Ruger SA I prefer not to worry about “ load one, skip one… etc”, with top break revolvers making sure that top chamber is empty. Thanks, Onty.

[mainmech48]

Haven't fired one yet, but the ones that I've handled appeared to be very nicely made in fit and finish. FWIW, it's a basically a modern iteration of the S&W New Model No. 3. Typical Beretta quality.

IMO, I wouldn't mull it over too long if you'd like one. Due to the amount of skilled handwork needed, even with the advantages of CAD and CNC, in their manufacture the price will likely cause them to disappear fairly shortly. Cowboy Costume shooting is a fairly big niche, but the way the matches tend to be structured pretty much negates the advantages offered by the top-break design, IMO. There just aren't many that require a reload in the process, and most make a second revolver more attractive. If one can buy two Vacqueros or SAA clones for the same price, or two Schofield replicas for only a tad more, they aren't likely to sell enough of them to remain in the line over the longer run.

It happened with the excellent S&W Performance Center reissue of the Schofield a few years back. They were US-made, beautifully, and as authentic as the times allow, but at over $1100 a pop they languished on the shelves compared to the $600 Uberti's and went away after only a couple of years. It didn't help that they were only offered in the original caliber (.45 S&W) and had a lawyer-mandated change to a frame-mounted firing pin which ruffled the feathers on some of the literal traditionalists no end.

The Uberti Schofields and Russians are often found at a discount from MSRP, but they've been in production long enough and sold enough units to have made that viable. It will take a goodly while for the Laramie to reach that point, if indeed it lasts long enough to reach it.

[Onty]

Mainmech48, I agree with you. If they keep prices so high, almost price of field grade Freedom Arms, I can see Laramie’s demise, unfortunately. As for the manufacturing cost, I am mechanical engineer and familiar with manufacturing, and I just cannot see how top brake revolver could cost more to produce than very fine S&W N-frame revolver. Modern CNC equipment and appropriate tooling could produce incredibly close tolerance parts and hand fitting could be reduced to no more than standard fitting as on any other revolver. The only bit tricky hand fitting could be fitting of the cylinder latch, but if they have grinding machine properly set, it could be done in minutes in assembled stage (BTW, I would like to see that latch much beefier, it could be done with three tongs instead of one, without any increase in width of top strap).

In my opinion, the culprit is somebody in Beretta Marketing who wrongly calculated that participants in cowboy shooting are so hungry for good top break revolver that 25% increase in value could justify 100% increase in price. Well they better learn from Ruger and others how to balance manufacturing cost and MCRP price if they want to grab piece of the market. Otherwise, another very fine revolver will be the history, very soon.

[BlkHawk73]

The Beretta single actions as well as thier pump rifle, the Gold Rush, are made by Uberti and then marked Beratta. They have a nicer finish thn the Ubertis though. Otherwise, exact same gun.
Beretta is the parnet company of Uberti as well as Benelli, Stoeger,Franchi, Sako and Tikka.

[StefArms]

I've had three Laramies (still have two), the quality is typical Uberti. Which is to say they can be quite nice or have serious problems. Even a nice gun can have a flaw or two. The New Model style grip is a big improvement over the Schofield's. My guns (all .38s) have all shot high, requiring light loads and bullets to shoot point of aim. The windage adjustable sight is a plus but the hammer must have come straight off the Russian Model. It hits the rear sight clamp plate every time the hammer falls. This is easily fixed by removing a little metal. My recommendation is don't order one unless your dealer is willing to order more than one. Find one in stock and look it over carefully.

[mainmech48]

I'm relatively certain that much of the additional cost has to do with the economies of scale as applied to production. There are cost recovery formulae which dictate what amount must be added in order to amortize preproduction investment in R&D, product and manufacturing design, tooling set-up and depreciation, marketing, and so forth over a finite period of time.

To my mind, it's kind of a manufacturing "Catch 22": The higher the retail cost relative to the targeted market segment's competition, the fewer units sold over "x" period of time. Costs must be recovered within "x". Fewer units dictate that those costs must be distributed at a higher percentage per unit, meaning that retail cost must be high.

IMO, it's not quite as simple or direct a comparison as it might appear when considering the relative maufacturing and assembly costs between an extraordinarily simple mechanism, such as the lockwork on a SAA, the complex mechanism of a modern DA, and the middle ground where I'd place the lockwork of a "modernized" SA such as the Rugers and the Laramie.

While modern manufacturing methods can indeed reduce the amount of skilled handwork involved in the assembly process, there are many other factors involved that must be considered. As an engineer, you are aware of the extent to which the configuration of the particular part, as well as its material specs and a given facility's available production technology dictate the manufacturing process.

If you'll compare the barrel of the S&W No.3 design to that of a "K" frame, or a Vacquero, or a SAA you can estimate how many more operations must be involved and how much more time it must take in order to produce a single unit. No matter what level of technology you assume, the production process is going to be both much more involved and more time consuming. When one stipulates that investment casting cannot be involved in its production, for whatever reasons, both of those factors increase very significantly, even if not to an entire order of magnitude.

While I will grant that some of these factors should be offset to some degree by the economies offered by experience with two closely similar designs at Uberti, I'd ask that you consider that "similar" in this case is more related to cosmetic factors than to mechanics. IMO, the product is just "different" enough to add significantly to the tasks of final assembly workers, and that it adds no small amount of specialized training specific to the model into the equation, too.

Also just my opinion, but the reason for the design of the latching mechanism remaining essentially unchanged from the original would be just that: so that it is just like the original. Cowboy Costume types and history buffs in general set great store in the minutiae of "authenticity", and will tolerate very little in the way of innovation, even if it would improve function. Witness the Hooraw from them about the frame mounted firing pin on the Performance Center Schofield reissue and contrast that to the Ho hum about the fact that the Uberti "Schofields" are all in calibers never seen in originals. Go figure.