[BoneDigger]

This may heva been discussed before, but I have a question. I am getting my CCL in a few weeks, so I have no experience with the following question.

After getting yourr CCL, have you been more cognizent of OTHER people around you that may be carrying concealed? In other words, have you seen people in the mall, or grocery store, or whatever and based on the way they were dressed, or some lump in their coat, figured they were carrying?

Does going through the process of finding the right gun and holster combo and figuring out how to wear your clothes to conceal the gun, make you better able to spot others with CCLs?

Todd

[DirksterG30]

For me, carrying a gun has shown me that I need to have good situational awareness, evaluating the people around me, etc. Having said that, the only people I have seen that I thought might be packing were wearing fishing/photographers vests (I call them shoot-me-first vests, as that seems to be an unofficial uniform for some concealed-carry types.)

Congrats on applying for your concealed carry license, and welcome to THR, Todd.

Edit: Oops! I see you've been a member since January!

[Chipperman]

Short answer is, Yes.

At first you will be very conscious of your own gun. Try not to constantly touch and adjust it.
After you become more used to the gun on your own body, you will begin to be more aware of others carrying. Most of the time it's a suspicion rather than knowing they are packing.

[ZeSpectre]

I am awating my CCW but my wife has always accused me of having "Sherlock Holmes syndrome" (i.e. I notice every little damn detail) so I don't think anticipation of the CCW has that much of an effect on me.

The thing I've noticed in my area is how hard it is to tell if someone is CCW because of the proliferation of various cell phones, pda, pagers, blackberries, daytimers, on and on and on. People bulge all over with the crap they carry around :D

I doubt anyone will ever "make" me with a "wallet" holster because I've carried a PDA like this around for years.

Now where the hell I'm gonna carry my PDA now I don't know. :banghead:

[Whirlwind06]

For me not really. Although I have seen a few guys wearing a vest leafing through the gun rags. :) I'm more interested in threat assessment. I try to look at faces and hands and mannerism. 99% of the people I see are so detached from their surroundings that I feel it is pretty safe to ignore them.

[mljdeckard]

I eyeball everyone I approach to see if they COULD be carrying. (Wear sunglasses, it makes it easier to do this without getting slapped.)

The ones I have seen who make it obvious are guys wearing camo BDU pants, hi-tec boots, and a (I'm not joking) flourescent green nylon fanny-pack holster.

But in reflection, it seems like I noticed this more ten years ago when we first got the permits, it's not as noticeable. Sometimes I see cops moonlighing as mall security guards with them, kind of the "Technically I'm concealing, so you can't complain" attitude.

I still use a black leather fanny pack a lot, mostly because I can wear it with anything, but most people don't anymore. I suspect that most other permit holders and cops recognize me, but I don't mind. In Utah, we are not required to conceal.

[Ares45]

Other than some **** wearing a 5.11 vest, no.

I'm watching people's hands and eyes, not they're waistline or ankles. If trouble were to start it will begin with the hands, mouth, or eyes. Your personal little OODA loop will be shot to hell if you're wait until you see a weapon.

[TC-TX]

YES

and

YES

[22-rimfire]

I actually noticed it more prior to getting a CCW permit. For the longest time, I was not aware that a civilian could get a permit to carry and assumed these were off-duty or plain clothes cops. Now, I know a lot more about it and rarely see anything that is particularily obvious other than the usual fanny packs and stuff. I just don't look any more for the most part. As mentioned, people have lots of bulges these days with cell phones, pda's, blackberries, etc. I am more concerned when someone has a sock stuffed down their pants as it suggests something is "wrong" with that person... not that I look. :)

[dairycreek]

This may heva been discussed before, but I have a question. I am getting my CCL in a few weeks, so I have no experience with the following question.

After getting yourr CCL, have you been more cognizent of OTHER people around you that may be carrying concealed? In other words, have you seen people in the mall, or grocery store, or whatever and based on the way they were dressed, or some lump in their coat, figured they were carrying?

Does going through the process of finding the right gun and holster combo and figuring out how to wear your clothes to conceal the gun, make you better able to spot others with CCLs?


When I took my CHL class some 20 years ago they focused a lot on "situational awareness". In short you should always be aware of where you are, who you are with, what is (or isn't) going on around you. Kind of like an "uber" defensive driving approach to carrying concealed.

So, I am constantly on the look out for that which "might" happen and thinking about what I could do should it happen.

I sure don't think this has, at all, made me aware of who else is carrying concealed. As other posters have said, people wear so many things that bulge or otherwise stick out there is just no real criteria for who might be carrying concealed.

[javacodeman]

I am currently going through "the awkward stage" of concealed carry myself. I was in Home Depot the other night and I pretty much know that this man behind me in line knew I was packing. I am a big guy, but my carry weapon is still tough to conceal (USPc 40). I think I'll get a small wheel gun some day.

To answer your questions:
1) I've been even more aware of who might be carrying by their clothing, but even more I'm aware of possible threats. My wife thinks I'm crazy.

2) See above.;)

[Jomax]

If I may respectfully ask this question.

Assuming you did observe someone - say at the mall - who you felt was carrying a gun, what difference would it make to you, the way you conduct yourself and what, if anything, you would do about it?

The criminals don't care diddly about CC permits and the law-abiding permit holders like yourself aren't out for notariety, trouble or confrontation. IMO, being aware of your surroundings in general is far more important than who may or may not be legally carrying concealed.

Try acting completely normal :neener: but for goodness sake don't wear a cheap crappy universal type of holster that flops all about on your belt under your shirt. If you're like most handgun owners, you'll soon collect 6 or 7 holsters - or more - before you come close to the one that YOU wear very well and effortlessly.

Have fun!

[Iggy]

A "casual" awareness of what is going on around you, avenues of escape, etc., are more important to me than "is that dude packing?"

CCW'ers bear a heavy responsibility to avoid confrontations and situations where they must use their weapon, thus I stay on the alert to what is going on around me, and how to get myself and my family to safety if I can.

I was a LEO for many years. I will leave enforcement to the professionals, so unless the actions of an individual draws my attention to him, I don't care if he is carrying or not.
If his actions indicate trouble, and I can avoid him or the situation, I'm gone.

I have carried a concealed weapon for over 40 years. No one but my wife has ever had an indication that I do.

IF forced to defend myself or others, I have no qualms about doing so, but unless the red flag goes up I will continue to graze quietly among the sheep, and hope there are more like me in the herd.

[BigV]

I work security in a major grocery chain in NE Ohio. I see virtually everyone that enters and leaves the store. I thought it would be fun to spend a couple of weeks trying to spot Concealed Carry License holders as they left the store. I can honestly say that I never saw anyone that I knew was carrying their weapon. No printing (even in the hot summer months). I had a few that I suspected were carrying, but could not confirm it. Either folks in NE Ohio are very good at concealment, or none of the 80,000 License holders in Ohio came through the store during the weeks I was actively looking.

[Vonderek]

I never notice anyone's clothing except for the aforementioned photographer's vests and fanny packs. I observe people to ascertain who might be a potential threat as opposed to good guys who may be carrying concealed.

After 13 years with a CCW permit, I still am consciously aware of my own carrying. I don't adjust or touch my handgun while in public but I always make sure I'm still concealed when exiting a car or restaurant booth for example. I don't think I'm giving anything away as the movement can be disguised while pushing yourself out of your car seat or while removing your wallet to pay for a meal.

[Jomax]

Very well stated Iggy. The points you make determine the mindset one has for carrying a concealed handgun.

[chris in va]

Those cell phone swivel holsters psyche me out every time. Everyone looks like they're carrying. :rolleyes:

Honestly after just two years of CCW, I do find myself glancing around to see who might be packing, just for the hell of it. I don't go out of my way to be REALLY concealed and figure others in the area are probably in a similar situation. We don't have to conceal, which is nice. I 'print' all the time but it doesn't bother me.

I just wish this state had better training requirements. Any borderline psycho can carry provided they have a clean record.

[ZeSpectre]

I just wish this state had better training requirements. Any borderline psycho can carry provided they have a clean record.

Funny, I say the same thing all the time about drivers!

[GeorgiaGlocker]

For me, no. But my situational awareness is always on high alert.

[shooting on a shoestring]

There is one fellow I met at a range who is a fellow CHL holder here in Texas. In the course of conversation about holsters I learned he typically carries IWB at 5 o'clock. I see him in public every now and then and I try to spot his piece. I have made his b/c I knew his carry position, otherwise I really think I would have missed it, or discounted it as a pager, phone etc...

The statistics in Texas are 1% of the population has a CHL. I assume most carry regularly. I worry when I'm carrying in a place like Walmart, or a Luby's, or the grocery store, if a situation calls for me drawing, will a fellow CHL holder think I'm part of the bad guys, or will I mistake a fellow CHL holder as a bad guy?

You've got to know before you pull your gun.

[Ichiro]

Having a permit and carrying has made me much more cautious. My primary objective is not to get in a situation where I have to use a gun.

Observing other people is par for the course. One thing I like to do when driving or when shopping is to predict what people will do next based on what they are doing right now. Sometimes I think I have a better idea than they do.

The more you pay attention to what's happening, the more intenst mundane experiences will be.

[Mat, not doormat]

Not really. I think I've made one guy in the five years or so that I've been carrying. The guy was carrying OWB, under an open vest. I started looking at him because of the shoot me first vest, and about three seconds later, when he turned, the vest flared, and there for all and sundry was a nickel-plate Government model, gleamin' in the sun, as springsteen would say.

I know from personal experience, that anything remotely well concealed is pretty hard to spot. I've got a double shoulder rig that I use mostly for demonstrating that very point. If I can hide a pair of .44 Mag Super Blackhawks, I can hide nearly anything. IMHO, the best concealment garment ever created by the eye or hand of man is the Wrangler snap front shirt. It's made of heavy cotton, so printing isn't much of an issue, available in dark colors, and one pull is all it takes to open the snaps.

Basically, if someone is trying to make someone else as carrying, what they are looking for is the asymmetric bulge, since people bulge all over the place, (girls in most delightful ways,) but usually have a natural symmetry to it.

~~~Mat

[MD_Willington]

Those cell phone swivel holsters psyche me out every time. Everyone looks like they're carrying.


Hey I have one of those... ;)

[Flopsy]

I read this in somebody else's post a while back and I've found it to be a good rule of thumb:

Always assume that everybody is packing.

[AirForceShooter]

Here in Fla if a guy is wearing cargo shorts and an oversized flowered shirt it's a pretty good bet he's carrying.
so what?

AFS

[S&Wfan]

I think one of the early stages that most of us who legally carry concealed go through is the paranoia of wondering if we've been "made."

Don't worry, you'll get over it once you notice how little that others truly notice YOU!

However, to me, carrying concealed MEANS that the gun IS concealed. Our state doesn't have an open carry provision, so I make sure the gun is concealed.

AND YES . . . those goofy "photographer's vests" and fag bags (fanny packs) DO scream "Shoot Me First!" Avoid them like the plague . . . and no one will ever suspect that you are carrying.

It no longer worries me when I carry if someone is going to "make" me. I doubt they would and, if they did, it is only because they are a fellow CCW carrier or an LEO. I have no problem with either!

DITTO TOO . . . on watching the hands! Bulges and eyes can't hurt you . . . until the hands start moving where they shouldn't go.

[Pro_Gun]

probably don't give a rip about training or carry permits. They are part of the reason I carry.

[The Real Hawkeye]

After getting yourr CCL, have you been more cognizent of OTHER people around you that may be carrying concealed? In other words, have you seen people in the mall, or grocery store, or whatever and based on the way they were dressed, or some lump in their coat, figured they were carrying?I assume that every man wearing a fanny pack is carrying a gun. Unless you are jogging, why would anyone carry a gun that way? But they do.

[Alerion]

Here in Fla if a guy is wearing cargo shorts and an oversized flowered shirt it's a pretty good bet he's carrying.

ummm..... Does that mean half the guys over 50 at Disney World are carrying? :confused:

Tom

[m.p.driver]

ive avoided the the vest path,you look like youve just got back from safari,the fanny pack,you look like a dork.what i did was line the right pockets in several jackets to keep the pistol from wearing through,wallet and keys in left pocket so it hangs naturally

[glockgod]

Personally,I wear a vest sometimes. I don't worry about being "made". The only comment I hear is "Going fishing?" I think you could carry a bazooka on a chain around your neck and no one would notice as long as you kept it covered!

[DaltonSpringfield]

I have been almost everywhere in my career as a Commercial Driver, and I have observed many thousands of people. In that time I have "made" only 10 ccw'ers. In addition to good situational awareness, I am on the lookout for other ccw'ers for research purposes. My reason is simple, my job sometimes takes me to places where carrying is illegal, If I spot someone else's ccw, I have a better idea of what *not* to do to avoid being spotted myself. In my observations, I have learned:
1. so called "shoot me first" vests have 2 uses for concealment, while fishing or photographing. Any other time you wear one, it shouts "GUN"
2. "Dork packs" have their place, this is a functional carry method while at the zoo or other "tourist" locale where others are likely to also be wearing them, beyond that they just scream "DORK" and therefor, not a method I will use much, if at all.
3. OWB just does not work with my body type and usual manner of dress, when combined with an oversize untucked shirt, this is one of the more comfortable options for walking around, not so comfortable to sit on for 12 hrs.
4. As my good friend said...
Mat, not doormat
the best concealment garment ever created by the eye or hand of man is the Wrangler snap front shirt.when paired with a good quality shoulder holster or, my preferred method for carrying my Keltec P11, a belly band, this is what works best for me.
5. When deep cover is in order (i.e. while in NYC or Chicago) I find that a Keltec P3AT in a wallet style holster or front pocket holster is, by far, the most concealable for me.
6. When in a pinch, tucking a .44mag Ruger Blackhawk in one's coat sleeve works so long as you keep your arm over it and your elbow bent :neener:

To those who say you shouldn't be watching for other ccw'ers, good situational awareness includes all of your surroundings, including those who may be carrying. If I spot your ccw, I don't know if you are a law abiding ccw'er doing the same as I or a nut-job preparing to take over the world. Seeing or suspecting your ccw with no other signs of trouble does not alarm me, nor should it. One of the gentlemen whom I "made" was minding his own business, browsing in a chrome shop, while carrying SOB, and didn't know his shirt was caught above his holster, I was not alarmed at all by this and discretely informed him before anyone else had the chance to see it. Another individual I spotted loitering beside a liquor store, had bloodshot eyes, smelled badly of alcohol, and was wearing revoltingly nasty dirty clothes. He struck me as the "alcoholic" type. While I may have been completely wrong in my assessment, I don't feel guilty about leaving after I saw his pistol tucked in his waistband. Nor do I feel bad about calling the liquor store and letting the cashier know about him.
As far as your questions go, yes and yes. By getting your CCW you are taking on an awesome responsibility, it's only natural that you become more aware others who may also be carrying. By going though that mental process the human brain tends to focus on such things, much the same as a teen with a freshly minted driver's license is more likely critique the driving of others.
Congrats on your CCL!!!
Happy hunting,
Dalton

[buddyRoland]

Nah I never ponder what others are carrying. I use a Galco IWB, Desantis Undercover or a Don Hume 715 when enroute to and from work. Carrying is second nature to me know but a good holster is crucial. When I go out with the family I use a Galco Concealable or Fletch High Ride for compact or fullsize handguns.

[mashaffer]

Mat, What rig do you use for your BHs? I have often wondered about getting a SH made up that carries a full size revolver muzzle up and back (pointing out frm under the armpit) so that a quick hand under the shirt tail or through lower button/snaps puts that hand right on the butt. Either a spring clip or thumb break to hold the peice in place.

Besides the advantage of the low butt being easy to grasp it also puts the thinnest part of the weapon up under the arm so that the upper arm is not forced out unnaturally.

mike

[lawboy]

People, people, people ... Anyone with clothes on could be carrying a gun! There is no such thing as telling if they are carrying, or even more likely to be carrying by looking at what they have on!
ANYONE CAN BE CARRYING.
More to the point, it is pretty irrelevant whether they are carrying or not. The signs of aggression or impending confrontation have nothing to do with if the persons in your vicinity are carrying and, thankfully, those signs are easier to identify than a concealed firearm! Too, many of the signs have to do with the environment more than they do the individual, ie., the vast majority of criminals will not act without an opportunity to do so AND GET AWAY. This means they need an environment that is secluded enough to do so. When ever you find yourself in such a place, usually a transitory location between two destinations that are lighted and populated, GO ON HIGH ALERT, MAINTAIN DISTANCE FROM EVERYONE AND MOVE ON THROUGH POST HASTE! It is a waste of time trying to figure out if people are armed.

[Stretchman]

Spending time with a lot of bikers, I see all kinds of carry modes. Just be sure that most people carry. From the ridiculous to the absolutely absurd, I have seen it. Shoulder holsters with the straps showing through the sleeve holes in the vests. An open belt slide holster with the muzzle of the gun protruding beneath the vest. Smartcarry holsters with full size autos do not work that well people.

Best way to conceal a weapon is to make sure that they cannot see the weapon. You can't be arrested for having belt clips showing. If no one can see the weapon, then it is concealed. Knwong someone has one and actually seeing it are two different things. IF you really need to conceal it, and I mean deep, there are products for it. Strong side hip is the best position for draw and retention. IWB holsters are good for keep the weapon covered. OWB holsters are the quickest draw.

There are several ways to conceal better than that, but they are worthless if you cannot get to the weapon. Actually, I kind of like the idea that people around my neck of the woods really don't care if someone knows they are packing or not. When there are a whole buch of people hanging around, and they all look like they have big firearms, it kind of keeps the bad guys away. Of course, if anyone is stupid enough to pull down on that crowd, the odds are that he'll have 20 plus guns on him in a matter of about a second, and unless he is one of us, he'll regret it for certain.

Stretch