Grizzly bear defense with 9mm?


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Cheeseybacon
December 8, 2006, 03:17 PM
I'm having an argument with a friend of mine and I wondering if you guys can settle it. My friend is one of those people who thinks that 9mm is the perfect, do-everything wonder round, and he claims that 9mm is more than adequate for stopping a Grizzly bear as long as you hit it in the skull. Personally, I think he's a retard.

I have been under the assumption that grizzlies have pretty thick skulls and that believe that a 9mm straight to the skull of a grizzly probably wouldn't be the quickest way. Not to mention a headshot is probably very unlikely in such a panic situation. I think one would have a better chance of stopping one by shooting it in the chest or shoulder (not to mention with a more powerful firearm with FMJ ammo).

Who is right?

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dasmi
December 8, 2006, 03:20 PM
I'm pretty sure you're both wrong, but someone more knowledgeable will be along shortly.

GRB
December 8, 2006, 03:25 PM
You could settle this argument easily enough in Alaska. Winner takes both guns home.:p :rolleyes: :p

Antihero
December 8, 2006, 03:30 PM
I seriously doubt that a 9mm would penetrate a bears skull, more than likely it would just bounce off. There are 2 ways to stop a bear one is to get a risky head shot or heart shot(even if you do hit it in the heart it probably wont drop dead right away anyway) or literally stop its ability to move towards you. This means that you have to break some pretty big bones. The 9mm is not anywhere near enough.

Everytime i read any of these threads about killing a bear with a small service round i gotta wonder if these people have ever even seen a bear. Grizzly's are huge! Heck black bears when you meet them in the forest are huge and they are small compared to grizzlys, of course sometimes this has to do with not having a gun of any sort when you actually see said bear...dont ask me how i know this:scrutiny: luckily in that case i had my big Anatolian Shepherd dog with me and he chased it off,

Seriously for grizzlys id go with a 12 gauge with slugs, the 9mm isnt enough gun even if its loaded with FMJ or hardcast or explosive rounds, or depleted uranium.....

Coronach
December 8, 2006, 03:33 PM
I would say the best bear defense with a 9mm would be to run. You don't have to outrun the bear, just your 9mm-advocating buddy. :scrutiny:

Believe me, I think the 9mm is a perfectly good round for self defense against humans, but it has its limits. Grizzly bears are well beyond its capabilities. :scrutiny:Personally, I think he's a retard.Trust your gut on this one.

Mike

Zoogster
December 8, 2006, 03:35 PM
Personaly I think the best use for a 9mm is in a SMG where multiple high velocity small rounds are effective, yet the muzzle rise is low enough that full auto is accurate and easy. As a pistol round its main advantage is magazine capacity, which while good against people the bear is not going to be ducking for cover from your 17 rounds, but instead is going to be trying to stop what is hurting it. From what I hear small caliber arms tend to encourage grizzlie attacks, and only the high power pepper spray bear repellants are successful at detering attacks. If you shoot a grizzlie you want it to be seriously injured, not afraid if it does not kill you quicker it will endure more stinging.

JHG
December 8, 2006, 03:36 PM
I would say to carry a shotgun and a 9mm... if the shotgun does not stop the Grizzly, you have the 9 mm to shoot yourself in the head just before the bear rips you to shreds.

Sean Dempsey
December 8, 2006, 03:41 PM
If you shot a Grizzly in the eyeball with a 9mm, it'd probably stop, or at least slow down. Especially if the bullet penetrated the thinner ocular bone wall of the eye socket and damaged crucial brain areas.

These discussions are the height of ridiculousness.

There is a chance a 9mm Handgun would stop a grizzly.
There is a chance a .50 handgun would not stop a grizzly.

My uncle shot a grizzly with a RPG and the bear just shrugged it off and still charged. Luckily, he was able to kill the bear with his Gerber LMF II AESK Survival Knife and some Kendo.

Walkalong
December 8, 2006, 03:50 PM
Personally, I think he's a retard.

I think you are both pretty nuts.

osteodoc08
December 8, 2006, 03:55 PM
IF I needed to carry a handgun for backup defense against some big Grizzlies it would definitely be in the neighborhood of the 480 Ruger or 500 S&W with some really stout loads. Better yet would be a carbine of some sorts in 45-70 or something similar.

schmeky
December 8, 2006, 03:58 PM
This topic was beat to death some time back. If indeed a Grizzly is coming at you, it's head will be boobing around a lot, a consequence of how they run. If indeed you do have enough time to see the Grizzly coming at you, your adrenaline will go from nil to "papermill" in a fraction of second, making accuracy even more difficult. You would still be emptying the 9mm mag while the bear was strowing your entrails about.

A Grizzly is HUGE, a 9mm is tiny. I personally think if your stupid enough to be in Grizz country carrying a 9mm, you deserve whatever fate befalls you.

There are much more appropriate firearms for this situation, i.e., lite weight shotgun, lite weight rifle, .44 mag, .454, .480, .500 pistols.

If a 9mm was appropriate, this topic would not exist.

CZ.22
December 8, 2006, 03:58 PM
The guy is a retard. Only way to kill a gizzly with a 9mm would be to hit it in the eye or empty the mag into its jugular. 9mm is a pretty good human stopper, but grizzlies are a lot bigger and I think their muscle structue is different (could be wrong) and it's harder to penetrate. The 9mm would probably not do anything to a grizzly if you shot it in the head. It would probably bounce off. Tell the guy never to go hiking in Alaska;)

Sean, your uncle killed a bear with a knife?
Was it already badly wounded fromt the RPG?
And where did he run into a grizzly while carrying an RPG? Siberia?

DoubleTapDrew
December 8, 2006, 04:08 PM
Personally I don't see why a Grizzly would need a 9mm :p
If I'm going into bear country and can't carry a shotgun or rifle I'm going to be packing the biggest handgun I can. You might kill one with a 9mm, the bear might die from laughter or his high-protein diet. But why take a chance.

outofbattery
December 8, 2006, 04:08 PM
Someone killed a Grizzly a year or 2 ago with his 9mm BHP.Hit it in the shoulder blade IIRC after his buddy had dropped his Mossberg.The story was one here actually.

Would I count on it?No,but I wouldn't count on any handgun.Totally irrelevant to me though,we don't get too many Grizzlies on the East Coast and now that I've watched Grizzly Man,I know how to talk to them anyway.

osteodoc08
December 8, 2006, 04:08 PM
Sean, your uncle killed a bear with a knife?
Was it already badly wounded fromt the RPG?
And where did he run into a grizzly while carrying an RPG? Siberia?

I thought he was just being sarcastic.:rolleyes:

highlander 5
December 8, 2006, 04:20 PM
remind me not to go hunting with either of you. minimum 12ga at least a 375 H&H. Handguns are a last ditch effort

Zoogster
December 8, 2006, 04:39 PM
now that I've watched Grizzly Man,I know how to talk to them anyway.
"Treadwell was discovered dead and partially eaten by one of his beloved grizzlies at his campsite in Katmai National Park in the fall of 2003. His girlfriend, Amie Huguenard, was also killed."

This was the fate of Grizzly man. He did surver 13 summers though after he got the bears to accept him. Then one day an old one that had difficulty hunting for itself anymore decided him and his wife didn't run as fast as elk, and couldn't fight back like other grizzlies.

This guy spent long periods of time slowing and steadily bonding with them as well. Even if you do communicate well a mild pawing to assert dominance might be harmless to other grizzlies, but will leave your entrails spilled on the ground. This is like people that have big felines (lion, tiger etc) and think just because it really cares about them it won't playfully rip thier arm off just like a house cat that cares about you will claw or bite you playfully. These are large powerful creatures and to play with them on thier level and communicate with body language, establish a pecking order and be a part of thier social structure you need to be able to survive the communication.

But yes there is things you can do if confronted by one from a distance that has no cubs, if you judge by its body behavior it is being territorial and not stalking you as prey. However short of a powerful round, very powerful large canisters of potent pepperspray deter them more effectively than small rounds because it shuts down thier sense of sight and smell, not just causes pain. However this requires them to feel it prior to getting to you which requires making a cloud of it between you and the bear for it to run through and continue to spray as they come into range..not waiting to spray it directly on them only as you would with people.

junyo
December 8, 2006, 04:48 PM
9mm will easily stop a grizzly.If you dropped a loaded pallet's worth of boxed 9mm directly on the bear from a great height. Otherwise no.

blaydeman
December 8, 2006, 04:55 PM
my dad told me a story about what a gun shop in kodiak said to him when he asked about a 9mm for bear protection. heres how the conversation went.

dad-"hows a 9mm work for use against a bear?"
saleman-"it would be better with a couple mods"
dad-"like what?"
salesman-"we woul have to file down the front site"
dad-"why is that?"
salesman-"so when the bear shoves the gun up your ass it wont hurt so bad"

3fgburner
December 8, 2006, 04:55 PM
Wanders over to the counter, and says,

"What's the hottest 9mm ammo you got? I want something like ++P+++, mega-expanding... you know, powerful."

Clerk asks,

"Why's that?"

"I'm going hiking in grizzly-bear country, and I need a defense round."

"Have you filed off the front sight of your gun, yet?"

"Why would I do that? So I could point-shoot better?"

"Nah. So it'll hurt less, when the grizzly shoves it up your @$$."

up_onus
December 8, 2006, 04:55 PM
My understanding is a 9mm is similar ballistically to a .38, but SLIGHTLY more powerful. So, would you go at it with a 38??
nah, me either, but then again, I wouldnt do it with a 45 or even a 50.
good luck on finding what your lookin for!

MCgunner
December 8, 2006, 04:56 PM
I searched and couldn't find it, think it was in the hunting board, but someone posted a news story out of Alaska where three guys were fishing, two had 9mm sidearms and one a shotgun. A brownie came after the guy with the shotgun over his back who didn't have time to get it into action. The other two guys drew and fired their 9s. First round hit the bear in the front shoulder breaking it and slowing the bear. They proceeded to empty the 9s into it and killed it. It weren't a small bear, either. So, you see, the 9 is better than a shotgun!:neener:

And, yes, I do believe a 9mm +P would penetrate a bear skull no problem. The real problem is HITTING the skull. But, heck, if you have 15 rounds to do it with. Still, I'd rather have a good magnum revolver, something in .454 Casull or better, for the job, just in case your buddy can't get his shotgun into action in time. Fortunately, I don't live up there. It's too danged cold for me in south Texas right now, let alone Alaska! We've been getting sleet and even a little snow, though it's 45 degrees so nothing stuck. Burrrrr!

Hard to believe no one piped up with how great the .45ACP is against bear. :rolleyes:

1KPerDay
December 8, 2006, 04:58 PM
If you're a real man you don't even need a 9mm...

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2006/07/22/bear.html

:eek:

azredhawk44
December 8, 2006, 05:17 PM
Wow, a lot of grizzly wrestlers here.

So, would you go at it with a 38??
nah, me either, but then again, I wouldnt do it with a 45 or even a 50.


There's folks who will go out and do what they want to do with appropriate protection, and folks that will shelter themselves away from anything that might hurt them.

Alaska was settled by fellas with 45Colt handguns and 45/70 and 30-30 rifles. All these were black powder loads, not modern high pressure propellant loads.

I've been hiking around some 800+ pound black bears in Washington state. I believe in the church of the 44mag. Goes with me anywhere that the department of fish and game says critters over 200 pounds exist (lions, bears, moose, elk, chupacabras, whatever). Otherwise, a .357mag comes with me.

9mm for wildlife defense? Possibly in a place where the largest dangerous critters are javelina, small hogs, coyote, wolf, mountain lions. 147gr Jacketed soft point, though. Heavy is good when dealing with critters.

Zoogster
December 8, 2006, 05:20 PM
If you're a real man you don't even need a 9mm...
That was a black bear. There is a saying that wearing bells while hiking will scare away black bears before they are close enough to be dangerous. However wearing bells while hiking around grizzlies may be akin to announcing dinner is ready.

I have seen videos of police departments unloading dozens of rounds into black bears and them still running around. Grizzlies being more resilient it will be even tougher.
The other two guys drew and fired their 9s. First round hit the bear in the front shoulder breaking it and slowing the bear. They proceeded to empty the 9s into it and killed it.
See 34 rounds to down him with 9's so yeah if you carry a SMG loaded with 30+ 9mm's you should be fine.

ccw007
December 8, 2006, 05:36 PM
When in the woods in bear country never go alone. Have a buddy you can out run with you. You do not need to out run the bear just your buddy.

Oh back to the topic shoot your buddy in the leg with the 9mm to make sure you can out run him. :D See the 9mm is perfect for stoping a Grizzly from attacking you :neener:

Shoney
December 8, 2006, 07:22 PM
I think equine peristalsis has been working overtime here. I wonder how many of the above posters have even seen a grizzly, and how many have actually lived and worked with them? I grew up in Yellowstone and worked in Glacier National park.

The best way to stop a grizzly with a 9mm? Slather it with bacon grease and peanut butter and dangle it in his face from a long stick as you attempt to run.

UglyGlock
December 8, 2006, 07:27 PM
but davey crocket killed him a bear, when he was only three.

Personally I don't see why a Grizzly would need a 9mm
the Grizzley didn't need the 9mm, he just took it from the last guy.


seriously though, this whole "handgun for bears" thing that comes up every month (or twice a week) is silly. even in Alaska, bear attacks are less common than moose attacks. I don't think you need to pick a gun specifically for bear defence. my advice is to take a gun that works against humans, which are the most likely to give you trouble.

Bears are big, with a slow metabolism. a grizz bear's heart beats about once every 8 seconds. They are also very fast. 30mph fast. Even if you had a .50BMG derringer or the "roger rabbit" revolver or whatever and completely destroyed a bear's heart, it could still cover 40 yards and play pinata with you for a while before it becomes incapacitated. you aren't going to stop a bear charge, even with a rifle, unless you break bones, preferrably spine or pelvis.

yes, people hunt bears with handguns. but in a hunt is an offensive operation: hunter shoots the bear, it runs away (or tries to), hunter tracks it to where it died. the main point is that the bear didn't initiate the attack, it's caught by surprise. in a defensive situation, If the bear attacks, it has the advantage because it has already decided not to run away. however, any wound or loud noise might be enough to change it's mind and convince it to run away. and if it didn't attack, well in that case you don't need to defend, eh?

In they unlikely event that you are attacked by a bear, whatever gun you have with you will be fine. I've never heard a (credible) story of someone that shot a bear with a handgun* and was mauled anyway. The gun you have with you, the one that you will carry, is the right one for bear (or any other kind of) defense.

(although i am sure we'll see 100 posts about someone's uncle's friend, etc. and how you just have to carry a 5 or 6 pound handgun like a Raging Bull or Deasert Eagle .50 and so on)

* (but I know of one case of a hunter hiting a bear twice with his .280 rifle and being killed anyway)


oh, and I suggest you wear rubber underwear too, because you are more likely to get struck by lightning. be prepared for any possibility, right?

p.s. what's the best handgun for defense against walrus?

Antihero
December 8, 2006, 07:41 PM
I've been hiking around some 800+ pound black bears in Washington state. I believe in the church of the 44mag. Goes with me anywhere that the department of fish and game says critters over 200 pounds exist (lions, bears, moose, elk, chupacabras, whatever). Otherwise, a .357mag comes with me.


Now the real question is......

Whats the best caliber for Chupacabras?:D

Ive seen some black bears that are pretty big in my area also,North Idaho, and I to believe in the 44mag or even better the 45colt+p

spooney
December 8, 2006, 09:11 PM
I think it would work if the bear believed in the barter system. Example: "here mister gigantic animal you can have this 9mm pistol if you don't eat me. Please."

jwalk
December 8, 2006, 09:23 PM
Last week my first sergeant shot a cow he was going to butcher with a 40 cal. He was three feet from it, shot him square in the forehead and the bullet bounced off and landed in a puddle of water nearby. The cow ran about 75 yards and stumbled around, and then got dropped by a 308. I don't have any idea how the skull thickness of a grizzley and a cow compare and I'd be willing to bet the 40 round was a standard load, don't know for sure. So go ahead and pack around a 9mm, just don't shoot him in the head, or at least any cows!

Zoogster
December 8, 2006, 09:36 PM
Honestly though we are running out of bears and other large predators and your chance of being attacked by one or having problems are less than your chance of running into to the ever overpopulating homo saipen who tries to rob you in the middle of nowhere.

razorburn
December 8, 2006, 09:54 PM
I've been hiking around some 800+ pound black bears in Washington state. I believe in the church of the 44mag. Goes with me anywhere that the department of fish and game says critters over 200 pounds exist (lions, bears, moose, elk, chupacabras, whatever). Otherwise, a .357mag comes with me.

Over 800lbs? That's bigger than any known black bear ever recorded in history. I live in Washington, and we even have a facility on my university built to maintain and study black bears containing a population of about a dozen. I've seen another dozen or so in the wild. I've never seen a black bear more than 400 lbs, and that was a bloated, captive specimen. The wild ones I've seen averaged 150-200lbs, not much bigger than an average man. But if you know where there are these historic, record crushing black bears roaming in my state, please give me their location before the next hunting season! I'd love to get my name in the record books. :D

Cosmose
December 8, 2006, 09:59 PM
here is a link http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob91.html

it's one of the best articles i ever read massad ayoob tells about a man that kills a bear with a tarurus 9mm.:)

MDHunter
December 8, 2006, 10:07 PM
Cheeseybacon,

Tell your friend that the 9mm works just fine for any grizzlies he'll run into in Pennsylvania. :neener:

Razorburn,

Check some hunting sites, I think the biggest blackie killed in PA is over 800 pounds, if not for sure it was over 700 pounds. Someone I work with just had a friend kill a 550-pound blackie on their farmland in Virginia, corn-fed blackies can get really big!

Michael

Cosmoline
December 8, 2006, 10:16 PM
--9x19 FMJ will most certainly penetrate a bear's skull. Bear's heads are not made of steel. The legends about bullets being "deflected" off bear skull arise from hunters who shoot the hump on top of a brown bear's head thinking it's the skull. In reality of course it's just huge jaw muscles, skin and fat.

--9x19 FMJ has stopped a charging brownie sow. Several years back on a nearby river one fisherman shot the sow with his 9mm sidearm and managed to hit her square in the shoulder joint, shattering it in and stopping her. His friend then picked up his shotgun and finished her. IIRC, that same friend had responded to the sow initially by *THROWING* the shotgun at her, which always makes me smile.

That said, I'd take a .357 with 180 or 200 grain hardcasts as a backup bear gun over a 9mm with 140 FMJ's. But I'd take either over a pointed stick.

But speaking of pointy things vs. bears. This story:

If you're a real man you don't even need a 9mm...

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2006/07/22/bear.html

.. is nothing. Gene Moe stopped a starving KODIAK SOW with his hunting knife.

http://www.outdoorlife.com/outdoor/adventure/article/0,19912,1117013,00.html

He remains The Man.

There's also a story in one of Larry's books about an Anchorage lawyer who got in a protracted fist fight with a large black bear, getting really torn up in the process. IIRC he managed to escape by swimming off into a lake.

tango3065
December 8, 2006, 10:33 PM
We all know you would need at least a 40S&W with 180gr bullets.

Banta
December 8, 2006, 11:12 PM
Grizzly with a 9mm? Very bad odds. A neighbor of mine shot a large black bear that was fighting with his (huge) husky. It took 3 shots from a 300 Winchester Magnum before it went down. Add a few hundred to over a thousand pounds to this in a grizzly bear and you have virtually no chance.

BenjaminR
December 8, 2006, 11:17 PM
Here in AZ, while out in the 'wilderness', I'd be more concerned about running into a marijuana plantation and some drug dealers rather than a bear. In the last year some hikers have stumbled across a couple drug farms. Not sure if I'd rather run into one of them or a bear. Obviously the big danger with drug farms is that they usually come with armed guards...

Chuck Perry
December 9, 2006, 01:04 AM
Can we sticky the "file off the front sight" anecdote? Honestly, no offense to anyone, but when this topic comes up (every other day) someone always has to post it. :banghead:

razorburn
December 9, 2006, 01:08 AM
Check some hunting sites, I think the biggest blackie killed in PA is over 800 pounds, if not for sure it was over 700 pounds. Someone I work with just had a friend kill a 550-pound blackie on their farmland in Virginia, corn-fed blackies can get really big!

Michael

I checked before posting. I generally check facts before posting anything. The world record is 802lbs, in Wisconsin, in the 1800's. Blackies that big haven't been seen for over 100 years. If he's seeing black bear that're over 800lbs while hiking in Washington as he says, those are beyond world record black bears. The average black bear in North America is estimated to be about 300lbs. with huge variance due to sexual dipmorphism and region. In some places, like MN, there are adult bears only weighing in at 100lbs. http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/snapshots/mammals/blackbear.html
Or other places, where they vary from 125-500lbs, or 200-600.
Most places list them with a median of 300 or so http://www.dfg.ca.gov/hunting/bear/biology.html

soul_rapier
December 9, 2006, 01:41 AM
Bears that deals drugs in AZ ? thats why a bear needs a 9mm for his drug dealing. :neener:

kbheiner7
December 9, 2006, 01:57 AM
You should start calling your name "bear food."

arthurcw
December 9, 2006, 05:00 AM
But what round for Zombie Bears??? :what:

GRIZ22
December 9, 2006, 06:08 AM
Let me start off by saying the only Grizzly I ever saw was stuffed in the Museum of Natural History.

Skeeter Skelton wrote a column about "beware of the man who owns only one gun...because he's probably very good with it". He relates how a freind moved from Texas to homestead in Alaska. The only gun he had was a S&W Military and Police in 32-20. Skeeter went to visit him after he lived there a few years and noticed he had a Grizzly rug on the floor. Skeeter never asked him but he knew the only gun the guy had was his 32-20.

Kill a Grizzly with a 9 MM? I think more impportant than load selection would be a lot of luck.

Drewrw
December 9, 2006, 06:53 AM
We all know you would need at least a 40S&W with 180gr bullets.


Yes, that is why your the first to say it on the 2nd page, we all know it.... :neener:

chipp
December 11, 2006, 08:24 PM
A nine will work..kick him in the testicles then when he bends down shoot him in the eye

10-Ring
December 11, 2006, 08:37 PM
9mm & grizzly bear??? Nope, not a good mix. You're both wrong!

MCgunner
December 11, 2006, 09:30 PM
The 9mm bounces off, the .45 blows 'em off their feet.:cool:

MikePGS
December 11, 2006, 09:33 PM
Now the real question is......

Whats the best caliber for Chupacabras?

Haha i was wondering the exact same thing. Or even better... what about a bigfoot?

achildofthesky
December 11, 2006, 09:38 PM
To the efffect " the 9mm is is entirely adequate for a Gizzy bar encounter. Shoot your buddy in the leg and run like hell" ;->)

Patty

Stevie-Ray
December 11, 2006, 09:45 PM
Sheesh, I recommend 10mm for Black bears. Against Grizzlies, I'd like to have my SAR-48 with me.

Check some hunting sites, I think the biggest blackie killed in PA is over 800 pounds, if not for sure it was over 700 pounds. Someone I work with just had a friend kill a 550-pound blackie on their farmland in Virginia, corn-fed blackies can get really big!My buddy's here in Michigan was over 500 lbs as well. Normal here in MI seems to be 300-400lbs with 500 being quite a big one.

.357 magnum
December 11, 2006, 09:57 PM
Well if you are giving me a choice I will take the .45 acp with Federal 230gr Hydra-shoks and a 5 inch barrel and 14 shots over the 9mm. Much better choice then the 9mm! Do I want to face a grizzly with my .45 ?---Never! But I sure as h$$l do not want to face a grizzly with a 9mm. At least with the.45 I have a small chance of living-albeit small. Too the original poster. Your freind is not retarded, but very unrealistic to think a 9mm would stop a grizzly. He would only be retarded if he went hunting for a grizzly with a 9mm.

The Best to all!

Frank

P.S.--[yes I even have a weakness for the unrealistic posts at times- but they are good fun!]

MCgunner
December 11, 2006, 10:04 PM
The 9mm HAS stopped grizzly, fact. Wish I could find that article that was posted. .22 LR has killed 600 lb Canadian black bear. I read about it in Sports Afield years ago. It was three indian kids out for a walk and the big bear came along as they were hiding in the brush. Shot it in the head from point blank. At the time it was a record class bear.

9mm CAN kill anything that walks, even elephant, but it ain't like I'm going to rely on it for bear defense.

Cheeseybacon
December 11, 2006, 11:00 PM
Wow.

I guess that settles it, 9mm is definately a huge no-no for Grizzly. I personally thought it was kinda obvious, but now I can end this debate with my lame 9mm fanboi friend once and for all. I just hope he carries something a little better when he actually does go to Alaska. He keeps talking about going salmon fishing up there some day.

ezypikns
December 12, 2006, 12:51 AM
I hunt them with a club.











There are 25 of us in the club. All armed with large caliber rifles.

jonsidneyb
December 12, 2006, 03:28 AM
Some has said here that you are more likely to run into drug dealers than a Bear. I have never run into drug dealers but I have run into other types of criminals. I did almost run into a bear once. I backpacked the Appalachian trail and I did come face to face with a black bear. My best guess was about 200 pounds. I started to take a picture but thought the flash might not be a good idea. It was just as startled as I was and after a few seconds got off the trail and ran away.

I remember seeing a film long ago on the news about a bear relocation. I was probably in jr high at the time. The bear was released from a cage on the back of the truck and instead of running it turned on the ranger. The ranger shot it 6 times from almost contact distance with a .357 and it did drop the bear.

I have no doubt that a large brownie or grizzly can be stopped with a 9mm I would not trust it to do the job but would if I had to. I know some will scoff at this but handguns much larger that .44 magnum and .45 colt are hard to carry if you are not out hunting. If I was in big bear country I would carry a rifle but on my belt would be a .44 or a hot loaded .45 LC and I would just have to trust that if needed those handguns could do the job. Fortunately I do not think I will be attacked by a bear.

I am more concerned actually about packs of feral dogs and a girl I know lost her dog to a mountain lion. Now for those threats 9x19 is adequate.

Waywatcher
December 12, 2006, 03:35 AM
Well, I carried a 9mm Glock in Montana for 4 days of hiking because it was all I had. If it's his choice then yeah, he probably is a retard.

Now I have a .357 mag, still not ideal, but better. More is honestly across my threshold of recoil though, and a good hit with .357 is better than a miss with a 44. I've tried .44's. Not my idea of fun, but then again I broke my shooting wrist a few years ago. (Not while shooting, mind you.)

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