I have a Rock-Ola Carbine, Type 2. Nice shooter. I like it a lot. I need more.
I'm contemplating picking up a new one, Auto Ordnance, basically type 1 sights (flip up, no slide, no windage) with walnut furniture for ~ $650-ish.
I might be able to beat the price, but that's not the question.
Anyone out there with one of the new Auto Ordnance carbines?
What can you tell me about it?
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December 9, 2006, 12:23 AM
I asked the same question several months ago and got exactly ZERO replies...doesn't appear there are that many folks out there that have one.
Here's a review from American Rifleman...it's posted on the AO website...grain of salt I guess.
Here's the best price I've seen:
I want one:)
December 9, 2006, 12:29 AM
I have no experience with them, nor do I intend to, considering the cost. You can get a good condition, real M1 Carbine for the same price, and it will continue to increase in value over the years, unlike the Auto-Ordnance.
If you want a like-new M1 Carbine, I think you should consider one of the restored M1 Carbines by Miltech. They are really beautiful guns.
December 9, 2006, 12:54 AM
I bought new a Kahr M1 .30 carbine had some stall on old off brand ammo, new ammo worked fine.Called
Kahr they sent a pre-paid pick up kept it 5-6 weeks returned with new barrel and polished throat.No charge to me.
What a great little rifle handy with folding stock and 15-30rd mags.With soft points from Georgia Arms ( FMJ 50rds = $10.00 SP 50rds =$ 13.50 ) the carbine is a powerfull HD rifle with little recoil.
I liked the M1.30 carbine so I bought another, a National Ord, have it set up as a scout rifle bottom of picture.
December 9, 2006, 12:58 AM
There's one in one of my local shops that's been calling to me, but it's the birch stock and I'm holding out for walnut. I've had a good look at it (not torn it down or anything, but gone over it in the shop) and it seems like a perfectly solid product. On the other hand, MSRP is too close to what GI carbines run for me to consider paying it, so I'm also holding out for a better price on one.
December 9, 2006, 01:18 AM
I know the Universals aren't the nicest, but aren't they something like $350?
December 9, 2006, 01:31 AM
A Store near me has three Carbines on the rack and two on the wall.
The two on the wall are both classic (Inland & IBM), all original, service grade or better. The owner is a Carbine fan, and strips all the ones he gets in, verifies the parts, checks barrel and action, prices them accordingly.
Of the ones on the rack, one is an original National Postal Meter, one is a Plainfield (non-mil-spec), and one is a new Auto Ordnance (Kahr) in walnut.
True enough, the Plainfield is the lowest price, but I want to stay with the mil-spec types. Universal is another non-mil-spec, along with Iver Johnson.
That leaves me with the Postal and the AO/Kahr (unless I suddenly decide I'm rich).
The all-original ones are priced well above the AO/Kahr, so I thought I'd fish around and see if I could find someone who has the AO/Kahr and pick their brains.
December 9, 2006, 09:29 AM
Wow!! Those are beautiful...but the prices start at $1150. I guess if you're looking for a collectable rifle that may be the way to go. I want the rifle to shoot...a lot! So I'm leaning towards the AO.
December 9, 2006, 09:37 AM
You might want to look around for carbine from National Ordnance. From what I understand back in the 60's or 70's NO made their own recievers and used surplus GI parts to flesh them out. I've seen several now for sale in the sub $300 range - might be worth considering if you can find one.
December 9, 2006, 10:07 AM
I have one and like it pretty well. Shoots fine with an occasional FTF - but no more often than a friends Inland. I bought it because the really nice looking milsurps cost more than the AO.
December 9, 2006, 11:13 AM
...one is a Plainfield (non-mil-spec)...
Although Plainfiedls aren't milspec, they do take GI parts. I'd buy one as a shooter if the price was right ($350 or less).
December 9, 2006, 11:22 AM
Are the AOs milspec?
December 9, 2006, 01:56 PM
Had a chance to shoot one of the new Kahrs a while back, nice rifle. Accurate, light, good trigger and sights. Was planning on buying one, until I lucked onto a Inland in good shape for a good price.
December 9, 2006, 02:51 PM
Jus got back form a gun show. Looked at three M1's, two folding stock $2K-$3K each and one that looked brand new, parkerized. Did not say AO or Kahr but it was $750.
I really like the AO ones and would buy one in the $500 range. They are so lite and handy. Much more so than an SKS, an AK or even and AR. I looked at those also.
December 9, 2006, 03:23 PM
I have one, all walnut, no metal handguards, nice walnut, lists at $705 got it for $624 with all taxes etc
I am pleased with fit and function. A real fun gun I will be proud to offer my sons along with the rest of my plunder
I dunno why this dark horse is kept hidden in the stables, only 2 gunrags reviewed it.
December 9, 2006, 03:24 PM
According to some vendors that do after-market accessories (Like UltiMAK), their product Fits G.I. pattern M1 Carbines. and further Will not fit, and cannot be modified to fit, any Carbines manufactured under the name "Universal" and some Carbines made by Plainfield. so they recommend it is advised that you trade it for a G.I. pattern carbine. Either a 1940's vintage or the more recent production IAI, or the new Auto Ordnance Carbines will perform better, and will be compatible with all after-market stocks and accessories.
So, yes, I believe the AO/Kahr is mil-spec.
December 9, 2006, 03:55 PM
What kind of accuracy can be expected from these carbines?
December 9, 2006, 04:14 PM
I shot mine at about 75 feet and it hit where I pointed with factory ammo
December 9, 2006, 05:10 PM
Are there any quantifyable accuracy reports, how many MOA one is capable of, or even can it consistantly hit a (grounded) clay pigeon at 100 yards, etc?
December 9, 2006, 06:56 PM
Mine will do minute of man on steel chest plates with decent consistency out to 200-225 meters, if I do my job (mine has the later adjustable sight, though, which may be notable in this discussion but which seems to be pretty common on carbines in the "shooter" price range, rather than collectibles). I've tried pushing it out to 300-350 and not had any luck -- I think the round is really at its limits out there, but it may just be me. Never tried putting it on a rest and grouping it in closer, but it does pretty reasonable POI/POA match up at CQB sort of ranges. All in all, it is not a sniper rifle, nor even an AR-15/M16/M4, but it's a fun shooter and accurate enough for a combat long gun (not bad for being made in June of '44, I think).
December 9, 2006, 08:28 PM
American Rifleman wrote them up a few issues back, but unfortunately I don't have it handy to post the group sizes they got with the different loads they test fired. I seem to recall it performed fairly well though.
December 10, 2006, 07:37 AM
I've had one for a little over a year now. Mine has the flip-type rear sight, and a wood heat shield. I think I paid about $550 for it (NIB). The rear sight on mine was a little loose in the dovetail, so I secured it with a bit of loctite, and that fixed the problem. It's been 100% reliable through about 1500 rounds of Winchester's FMJ ammo, using a couple of USGI 15rd mags.
December 10, 2006, 08:09 AM
I've had mine since Jan 2005, so closing in on 2 years. Bought it a bit impetuously, after reading good reviews. At the time I was too naive to consider a real G.I. But, absolutely no regrets. First day at an indoor range, before I even sighted in, I shot this standing, offhand at 25 yards. I do better now, of course.
Only initial problem was a lousy Kahr/AO mag. They replaced it promptly. I've also used surplus G.I. mags with no problems.
Oh, and a friend gave me a surplus stock to put on it. Since then I've added an Ultimak, but usually shoot with open sights.
surplus stock (top)
original birtch stock (bottom)
December 10, 2006, 08:21 AM
I purchased a Kahr M1 in June of this year and am quite pleased. The only complaint is that it will fire when in safe. I have yet to send it back to Kahr for repair but it won't be a problem.
They're sweet looking and as accurate as an M1 Carbine can get!
December 10, 2006, 10:47 AM
I understand that the new AO rifles do not have the metal hand guard anymore...all wood, either walnut or birch.
Frandy...that surplus stock looks really nice!
December 10, 2006, 11:03 AM
I bought a Kahr AO M1 carbine this summer and just couldn't be happier. The form, fit, and function are as I'd expect from a miltary rifle. I've only shot MagTech ammunition through it, and the results are great.
I decided on the AO as the surplus one's I've seen in the gun shows were in horrible condition for more than I could buy a new AO. Months after the purchase I'm sure I made the right decision.
In short, gentlemen, buy with confidence.
December 10, 2006, 11:09 AM
Sigh.........Remember when they were 150 bucks all day long! Pre Clinton gun ban scare when an SKS was under 100 bucks!
December 20, 2006, 03:08 PM
My father recently told me of an interesting story when he was in the Military in 1960 (17-18 years old at the time) about his use of an M1 in Maine during the Cuban crisis.
I would love to find one and give it to him as a gift (operational or not, mostly a gift of sentiment, restored on non-restored, but would like one that has been around since the 60's).
I don't really have $2k to drop on a sentimenal gift, but if I could find one that doesn't fire or has been disabled, I may find one cheaper?
Anyone in here selling an M1?
December 20, 2006, 03:43 PM
I finally dug out my April 2006 American Rifleman with the article on the new AO carbines. The new ones are very different than the old IAI style ones with the ventilated metal handguards and some surplus parts. For the new one, Kahr borrowed a 1943 Saginaw made carbine, and cloned it, with entirely new manufacture parts including Green Mountain barrels. The sample they reviewed averaged 2inch groups at 100 yards with Magtech 110gr FMJ.
December 20, 2006, 04:58 PM
They dont have M-1 carbines but they do have serviceable M-1 rifles and actions (sans stocks) at CMP
Check their advertisement in SGN or Rifleman Friends who got theirs paid around $700 or less depending on conditon. M-1 carbines amy never reappear as re-imports the way slick willy messed up our gca
I sure ahve no complaints for the fully walnut stocked Kahr-Auto Ord. of mine
December 21, 2006, 01:30 AM
I'm looking at a Iver Johnson .30 carb. NIB Sources listed it as mil std. or at least close enough.
Not alot available about this make on the web. Thoughts?
December 21, 2006, 09:08 AM
IVER JOHNSONS havent been a real product for years. I have been attending shows since 1964. I would sincerely doubt it was NIB and would suspect it was a made up from parts gun.
That in itself is not that bad in an M-1 cause the gummint made up parts guns during arsenal refurbishment anyway.
But I certainly would not want to pay more than a couple hundred bux for a gun of mixed and undefined ancestry with that cloud of doubt that of IVER JOHNSON not being a curent player for SOME time while the sellers says :"NIB"
December 21, 2006, 09:26 AM
my universal did slightly sub 1 inch at 50 yards with cheap ammo back when i had it scoped. i cant see good enough to do that with the peep sights.
October 23, 2007, 03:08 PM
I have one of these pieces of junk!!! Out of the box, action sloppy in the stock(Moves visibly 1/16 inch fore and aft. Can't hit 3'x3' target a 100 yd. Sent back... 18.00. No offer or return label.
Got it back. They fixed the "trigger Guard pin" That wasn't the problem. I also had adjust. sight installed. $58.00. Still sloppy in stock, 50 rounds ALL OVER
3'x3' target. Sent Back $18.00.
Got it back. On the paper. Misfires EVERY first round out of 10 different Mags. and intermittently thereafter. Many FTF.
PIECE OF JUNK!!!! Stay away!
October 23, 2007, 05:58 PM
My AO works great. No issues. I added the adjustable rear sight. Works well.
October 23, 2007, 06:35 PM
The AO reports have been mixed to say the least. But they ARE a milspec rifle (all USGI parts interchange) unlike Iver Johnson, Plainsfield, etc.
And the street price for the AO is substantially less than you can buy even a ratty-but-authentic M1 Carbine around here. Their prices have skyrocketed in the last two years. There are several "experts" who support the M1 Carbine (with modern ammo) as the near-perfect HD/SD carbine. I've used them effectively on called-up coyote before, loads of fun. If I was to buy one, I would want a shooter...not a collector. The AO would be my pick. Even if something goes wrong with it, there are enough M1 Carbine Gunsmiths around that a milspec rifle SHOULD be fixable.
October 23, 2007, 09:31 PM
I bought one last year for exactly the reasons that Ghost Tracker mentioned. Beat up mixmasters were $700-$800. Once I heard the newer AOs were milspec and going for $600-$650 (at the time) with a 1 year warranty, it was a no-brainer. I wanted a shooter, not a collection piece. After about 800 rounds I found that mine didn't like Wolf ammo or some old Lake City I found. It runs almost flawlessly on Remington UMC FMJ. I have handguns for home defense but I wanted something that could do the job out to 100-150 yards. Plus, I just love the look and feel of M1 Carbines. Next one might be from Fulton Armory.
October 24, 2007, 01:08 AM
My AO M1 works perfectly fine.
I love it, iv'e fired hundreds, if not over a thousand rounds through it as it is somewhat new and have only had a enough jams to count on one hand using Wolf 110gr. FMJ's. The rear sight on mine became somewhat loose, but this is a problem that appearantly happens with alot of M1 carbines, not just Auto ordnance. It's not something a little JB weld can't fix. And yes they are Mil-Spec.
Iv'e never shot off a bench with it, but I know for a fact that if I'm aiming at something, it's going to take a bullet as it is plenty accurate. The first pic is the rifle brand new with upper foregrip made of perforated metal, i soon ordered a wood grip from cheaper than dirt and it fits great.
Overall, great gun for $550 (how much I paid)
June 1, 2010, 05:17 PM
I been thinking about one myself as they are great "brush" guns..short and light..and I do want a shooter and it will match my IJ Enforcer in my collection..but alot of bucks at the moment
June 1, 2010, 05:18 PM
but I want a barrel heat sheild as my IJE has one
June 1, 2010, 06:11 PM
You AO owners can say it as much as you like, but by no measure can the AO carbine be called "Milspec"....It just isnt true.
June 1, 2010, 06:11 PM
I reload and it behaves splendidly with both my bullet styles
EVERYBODY reloaded M-1 carbine with cast bullets as I entered the Curio & Relics trade in 1964. It's a LOT cheaper to shoot and there ain't NO cheap manufactured .30 carbine out there and when you DO find it, it is almost 50 cents a round
June 3, 2010, 02:45 AM
The AO Carbine was the first rifle I ever bought (Oct. '07: Memphis, "Guns and Ammo"), but it was on impulse with no research and did not know that good GI Carbines etc were probably available for less money.
Although I treated it tenderly (never hit or dropped etc), the bolt somehow got jammed after a few weeks. It came a bit out of the track: was jammed, as in rock solid. The gun smith here decided not to touch it and the factory made the free repair/shipping.
Although such a serious malfunction might have been very rare, I was so dismayed/disappointed by the factory's quality control that I sold it at a real loss and bought both a Mini 30 and an SKS. These are more rugged, very dependable, and the ammo is .25/rd, widely available.
Even those Chinese had much better quality control and with an old Russian design....Had wanted the M-1 Carbine since I watched "Combat" etc in the mid-60s.
I kick myself when seeing prices of good GI Carbines or M-1 Garands at the CMP, for less money than the brand-new AO Imitation Carbine back in '07 ($700)......but am glad that the AO's worked out for other people.
June 3, 2010, 09:32 AM
one of the best sites I have seen on M-1 carbines.
Carl N. Brown
June 3, 2010, 10:03 AM
( FMJ 50rds = $10.00 SP 50rds =$ 13.50 )
Those 2006 ammo prices made my wallet weep.
June 3, 2010, 10:49 PM
CMP M1 carbine is cheaper than a AO carbine. So why pay extra?
Carl N. Brown
June 5, 2010, 08:39 PM
CMP M1 carbines are more desirable as collectors items than as shooters, but they can be good shooters. I bought an M1 carbine (re-import from US guns issued to Korea, but not a CMP, one of the commercial importers) twenty years ago and am happy with it. The current AO M1 carbine has no collectors value, but is a good shooter and the current version replicates the original early WWII issue--"L" rear sight, no bayonet lug, etc.
June 6, 2010, 07:38 AM
I'm liking these rifles very much and have been going over and over buying one this weekend. I handled the AO M1 Carbine at a shop this week, the balance and handling felt excellent, plus I loved the look even better in person then in all the pics I've been preening over. The retail was about ~$750 which I thought was high. I've found them on-line for less($680 @ Bud's). Add about $45 worth of stuff from CTD(GI sling & oilier, stock mag pouch and two 15r mags) and I think it would make a very cool and fun retro assault rifle.
I only have one rifle a Saiga .308 for SHTF. My problem with getting the M1 is, I really have no place to shoot it ....I don't belong to a "range"(and there's none I care to join) I shoot at indoor pistols ranges that only allow pistol cal. and .22lr. I have to wait for the occasional invite to a buds range or make the long trip(1hr) to a public rifle range and pay $30/hr to use it
...but I really would like to own one. :)
June 6, 2010, 11:17 AM
I bought my AO M1 Carbine about 6 months before the CMP announced the availablilty of Carbines some years ago. Mine shoots great, never had a hangup or FTE. I have used Wolf and locally reloaded brass ammo. Accuracy is very good.
Always wanted a Carbine to go with the Garand. Got plenty of other stuff to shoot for more serious use, so the Carbine is a "fun" gun, along with my Ruger 10/22. Wife even likes "her" M4'gery better than the Carbine. Go figure!
June 6, 2010, 02:15 PM
If you have an AO carbine that works and you like it, good on you.
I bought my CMP Inland service grade for about $500. Excellent bore, excellent finish, and an early I-cut stock....picked it out myself at North Store (about 45min from my driveway).
I keep it handy for my HD longarm with a 15rd mag of Remington SP's. I shoot groups the size of a grapefruit at 100yds with this carbine without trying hard.
While the AO carbine may fit the bill for some, I much prefer having the USGI original...plus the fact that it will only go up in value, particularly when the CMP supply dries up (It is already). It has been 100% reliable. The only change I have made is to put an M2 mag catch on it to use the Korean 30rd mags. While I have a good supply of USGI mags (also bought from CMP at a bargain price), I also have both the 15rd and 30rd korean mags...they are excellent and work perfectly.
June 6, 2010, 03:38 PM
I pulled the trigger on the AO this morning, I just had to have one....
For me, its not the history that made me want one, so much as it the unique look, great ergonomics and accuracy.
June 17, 2010, 08:59 AM
Holy Hell!!! :D These rifles are great shooters! I picked it up today and brought it too a friend's farm/private range for some "free" shooting. This rifle was good to go out of the box. I started with 50 rounds of Wolf to break-in but the thing was grouping tight as a drum at 50y with irons. So we started testing my bud's reloads(he had some crazy stuff in .30carbine) some of the SWC and HPs it didn't like, but it ran all ball and SP perfectly. This Carbine's handling is unbelievable, its as easy to shoot off-hand as supported. Just over 150 rounds in, Dr. ReLoad.. :( forgot powder in a round and it squibed. I didn't have a rod so we spent the rest of the the time with pistols.
Back home it came out easy.....These AO clones are a quality, highly accurate rifle....the wood is even very nice looking
some quick pics I took:
That AO has the push button safety, the narrow barrel band w/o bayonet lug, and the "L" aperature flipper sight with two range settings.
That AO replicates a 1942 era M1 carbine.
Most G1 carbines found today have the flipper safety switch, the broad barrel band with bayonet lug and adjustable aperature sight with windage knob. (As G1 carbines were reconditioned at arsenal over the years, the sights, barrel bands and safeties were "improved" to later spex.)
June 17, 2010, 10:17 AM
From what I understand AO, retooled/copied from a Saginaw M1 Carbine.
No matter to me.....its a hell of a rifle :)
June 17, 2010, 05:41 PM
I feel the same way about my AO/Kahr M1 Carbine (flat bolt, walnut stock). It's surprisingly accurate and fun. It also appears to be well made. I respect mine enough to have loaded the mags with JSP and made it my HD rifle; something I'd grab over the shotgun.
June 18, 2010, 04:23 AM
CMP M1 carbine is cheaper than a AO carbine. So why pay extra? Why do people keep saying this? The CMP supply has dried up. You'll be lucky to get a beater from them and USGI carbine prices have skyrocketed recently. The Auto Ordinance ones seem to be the most faithful reproduction and the best bet for someone looking for a shooter on a budget.
June 18, 2010, 07:08 AM
Why do people keep saying this? The CMP supply has dried up. You'll be lucky to get a beater from them and USGI carbine prices have skyrocketed recently. The Auto Ordinance ones seem to be the most faithful reproduction and the best bet for someone looking for a shooter on a budget.
Deck....this being THR forum, the conversation is civil and constructive...At another unnamed forum, I can't believe what butt-heads some members were being on the subject of these AO Carbines. In short, calling me a fool for not buying an old, unknown conditioned and/or overpriced rifle.....when I specifically, said I wanted one to shoot not collect.
Anyway, I find this AO well worth the $700 it cost me. I have no issue with the quality of it and so far it shoots like a laser ;)
November 23, 2010, 10:22 AM
"Deck....this being THR forum, the conversation is civil and constructive...At another unnamed forum, I can't believe what butt-heads some members were being on the subject of these AO Carbines. In short, calling me a fool for not buying an old, unknown conditioned and/or overpriced rifle.....when I specifically, said I wanted one to shoot not collect."
The annonymity of the keyboard does tend to bring out the inner a**hole, a tactic resorted to when a well reasoned comment is beyond ones capacity,
I have a WWII era Inland carbine that I like a lot, it shoots great in spite of its weathered appearance, which I can't bring myself to alter. A gun like this deserves, (I think), a peacefull semi retirement, and probably shouldn't be used as much as I like shooting it. This is where the AO comes in, kind of the best of both worlds.
December 3, 2011, 02:53 PM
Is the trigger on the AO carbine better than that of the GI issue carbines? I have a GI issue M1 carbine that is very accurate and I love it - but the trigger is awful. So it has me wondering about how the AO does in this department.
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