Spainish Mauser 308, Any Ideas on this tree stump?


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In The Woods
December 8, 2006, 09:38 PM
I lately received a 308 Spanish Mauser Bolt action. I know nothing about this rifle. I've sent some rounds through it and now have a whole different view on the 308 cal.. I want to get in to shooting more with the 308 cal. and was also looking at the 308 long range new rifles. But first I want to know if I can mod this Mauser. I'm tempted to shave some weight off this thing with my table saw:D . Does anyone have any ideas on how or what I can do to it. Web searches end up with nothing. Specs and range would be nice:) . The front site bugs the hell out of me:banghead: .
Thank you to anyone who replies.

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jlmurphy
December 8, 2006, 10:13 PM
I have converted Mausers to sporting configuration, and unless you have access to a fair number of machine tools ( and like to use them), it is going to cost a lot more than selling the rifle and buying a used sporter. Also, the interest in original Mausers is increasing, it may be worth more than you think. If I was interested in modern bolt action rifles, I would look hard at the new Savage rifles.

chestnut ridge
December 8, 2006, 10:16 PM
Can you post a picture of your rifle. There are several different
"spanish mauser" rifles that have been chambered or rechambered
in 308 Winchester. Some are ok; some are considered as questionable
in terms of safety. Then the forum can better advise you.

iamkris
December 8, 2006, 10:36 PM
Better yet, before you start destroying a perfectly good milsurp by hacking it up with handtools, post pictures of it. If it is an FR-8, I'll buy it from you and you can go buy a perfectly good modern 308 that you can modify to your heart's content.

iamkris
December 9, 2006, 10:27 AM
Or this one?

http://www.surplusrifle.com/spanishfr8/index.asp

dfaugh
December 9, 2006, 10:42 AM
If its an FR-7 (small ring) then its VERY marginal with any modern ammo. If its an FR-8 (large ring) then it can handle higher pressure (but I still wouldn't push my luck too far!)

I've sporterized a couple of Mausers (an 1893 Turk(small ring), re-arsenalled to 8x57, and a VZ-24 (large ring) to 8MM-06 AI.) It CAN be done economically (I have less than $200 in each one) by scrounging used parts, off auction sites, but it takes patience. I also have all the proper tools to do things like bend the bolt, drill for scope mounts, re-crown the barrel. As stated before, if you really want an accurate long range .308, go buy a new Savage, and save yourself the aggravation and $$$$$$$$$.

vta33
December 9, 2006, 10:44 AM
Or, is it this one?

http://www.surplusrifle.com/1916guardiacivil/index.asp

I just bought one and it's still in transit. Tho, last weekend I fired a friend's carbine with 7.62x51 ammo and it kicks like a mule.

In The Woods
December 9, 2006, 12:07 PM
VTA33 is on the money it's the 1916 Mauser Carbine. I would just like to say THIS FORUM IS THE BEST THING I HAVE SEEN YET. It does kick like a mule but worth it. How much do they go for if you don't mind me asking. Since it was free to me I'm holding on to it sorry to the fellow who ask if I was selling it. For those out there wondering about me I've been shooting for over 25 years( thank you grandpa). So now I know what it is how does it stand on its own? Range and such. I know not all guns shoot the same. Thank you to all that have replyed you have been up and above helpful. How about mods? Stock,etc. are they available.

vta33
December 9, 2006, 01:22 PM
In The Woods wrote:

VTA33 is on the money it's the 1916 Mauser Carbine. I would just like to say THIS FORUM IS THE BEST THING I HAVE SEEN YET. It does kick like a mule but worth it. How much do they go for if you don't mind me asking. Since it was free to me I'm holding on to it sorry to the fellow who ask if I was selling it. For those out there wondering about me I've been shooting for over 25 years( thank you grandpa). So now I know what it is how does it stand on its own? Range and such. I know not all guns shoot the same. Thank you to all that have replyed you have been up and above helpful. How about mods? Stock,etc. are they available.

Well, I paid $181 plus S/H for this carbine on gunbroker. A friend told me that I overpaid for it. Not really sure if I did overpay. We'll see.

The sights are supposedly better than the sights on a 98K Mauser. There are no scope mounts available as the rifle wasn't designed for it. Someone correct me if I'm wrong as I would love to scope it.

Another thing, some folks will caution you against firing .308 cartridges in this rifle due to its higher pressure than the military 7.62x51 round but Kim Du Toit disagrees. See:

http://www.theothersideofkim.com/index.php/ggps/5637/

A good article is here: http://www.surplusrifle.com/1916guardiacivil/index.asp

For my old shoulders, I'll be firing Remington Managed Recoil ammo and Federal's Low Recoil ammo. Plus, I'll add a slip-on recoil pad.

In The Woods
December 9, 2006, 01:58 PM
At the last show I bought 7.62x51 rounds for it. 181$ is a good price for any working gun what else could you have got a sandwich from the deli and a car tank full of gas.:D I think you'll like it. I enjoy it. I just have to shot it more. I was thinking scope too but, there goes that idea. Slip on recoil pad is a great idea thanks. The sights are nice, i just added some white to them. the front site I'm still getting use too. looks like (!) that.:) I wish I could found a synthetic stock for it.

jlmurphy
December 9, 2006, 03:16 PM
It started life as a Spanish Model 1893 in 7mm, later converted to .308 and called the Model 1916. It is a small ring Mauser ( pre '98 ), synthetic stocks are available, the '93, '94, and '96 all have the same dimensions. Ramline makes a decent synthetic for it. B-Square makes a drop in aperature sight that replaces the rear leaf sight.

In The Woods
December 9, 2006, 03:29 PM
Thank you very much for the info. The news and hope I might have been waiting for.:D The stock is just straight sort to say. Uncomfortable, but I don't want to give up on it. Thanks again

Sylvilagus Aquaticus
December 10, 2006, 04:01 AM
uh...wasn't it converted to 7.62 CETME, a lower pressure round than 7.62 NATO?

I had one of these for three shots. All were fired from a machine rest with a lanyard. All three rounds were Israeli 7.62 NATO ball. and were very difficult to cycle the bolt after each shot. Ended up trading it off with a disclaimer, passing that information along to the dealer.

Maybe you got a good one if it works for you.

Regards,
Rabbit.

dfaugh
December 10, 2006, 09:34 AM
It started life as a Spanish Model 1893 in 7mm, later converted to .308 and called the Model 1916. It is a small ring Mauser ( pre '98 )

If its a small ring, as stated, you really, Really, REALLY wanna avoid "full power" .308 rounds. The 7x57 which it was originally designed for was a MUCH lower pressure round (40k psi?). It's not even really the strength of the action that's an issue (although it is), but the fact that there were many safety features added to the '98 large ringe action, like better gas handling in the event of case failure, etc.

I had 2 case failures (German milsurp ammo) in y 1893 Turk small ring, and they weren't pleasant (although no damage done---I WAS wearing my safety glasses). I later cut out a hole in bottom of the bolt (per 1896 Swede) that directs the gases downward if a case fails.)

MCgunner
December 10, 2006, 09:44 AM
I had a Spanish Mauser I partially sporterized in 7x57. They offered the .308 for a little more, but the 93 action on these things wasn't really intended for .308 pressure levels. I imagine it'd be okay, but I was a little paranoid to try it in .308. I just refinished the stock, had the bolt turned down better (it's bent, but it won't clear a scope) and I had scope mounts installed. It was okay, but not all that accurate with anything, but 175 grain round nose in 7x57 due to the tight twist.

I didn't like the cocks on closing action nor the military crappy 2 stage trigger. I sold it to a friend who wanted it. I have a Remington stainless M7 in .308 that I'm very, very happy with. I just ain't that big into milsurp when there are such fine sporting rifles available now days. Sure, I only put in about 120 bucks into that Mauser, so I guess it was a pretty good gun for the money. The purchase price was only $60. It was one RUGGED rifle, I'll give it that, and I liked the short, handy length, but it weighed a ton. I sure don't miss it, I'll tell ya that.:D

Mine didn't kick bad at all in 7mm, but then, I loaded it light regards to the action. But, it's so bloomin' heavy I don't see how it could kick in .308. My little Remington is only a little over 6 lbs without scope and it ain't bad at all.

oldfart
December 10, 2006, 02:50 PM
There's a lot of information to be found regarding Model 1893 Spanish Mausers. Some are great rifles and others are ... questionable. In general, those made in Germany are better than the 'Oviedo,' or Spanish made ones. While I've yet to find a verifiable report of catastrophic failure of a Spanish receiver, there is one eye-witness story about a barrel literally being shot out of the receiver, flying off and injuring a fellow shooter.
The problem seems to be with the heat-treatment of the receiver. In the case above, the front ring expanded enough to allow the barrel to come loose. In most cases though, shooting higher-powered ammo only causes the bolt lugs to indent themselves into the recesses of the receiver. The first sign this is happening is a repeated difficulty in raising the bolt handle. If it isn't addressed, the bolt will continue to work its way back, exposing even more of the cartridge base until one cartridge separates and explosive gasses travel back along the left side of the bolt and into the shooter's face.
Unfortunately, there seems to be no way to know ahead of time which rifle is safe and which is not. The simplest precaustion is to use low-powered ammo and make frequent checks of the headspace. I have a Turk '93 in 8mm that I know was made in Germany. I still check headspace once or twice a year just to be sure. My wife has a Spanish Mauser in 7X57 that was also made in Germany. Since the 7mm is a lower pressure round, I don't worry so much about the headspace.
The bad thing about shooting surplus rifles is the uncertainty regarding their safety. When you consider that - by pulling the trigger - you're setting off a pipe-bomb five inches from your nose, you might want to take as many precautions as you can.

MR
December 11, 2006, 01:36 AM
I wouldn't fire a small ring mauser converted to 7.62!!!!! I have pic's of a 1895 Chilean barrel that was sectioned, it shows an insert soldered in the chamber(because of 7x57 being longer) then the barrel was rebored to 7.62 and chambered. I don't want to be any where near when the hot powder gasses eat through the solder. It don't matter what action it is screwed in to that was one shakey conversion. I havn't seen a 1916 7.62, but if I do I would like to pull the barrel and check. Years ago I read on the GUN AND KNIFE forum of an accident with a Spanish 308 accident, the way I understod the description it sounded like the barrel let go because of the solder being ate away by hot powder gasses.
I know they passed the HP White Lab test.
mr

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