[P95Carry]

Ok .... not very exciting but ... gotta say, this was pretty much the least distorted bullet I have recovered in a long time.! Had a session with P97 earlier .... using some FMJ's ... and had paper plate against the end grain of a fairly rotten piece of log ...... the wood split as this entered and the bullet just lay on the ground.

Oh.... and, it was 15 yds

http://www.patriotnetwork.net/cb_gun/45acp_fired_01.jpg

[Bainx]

Interesting you should post this! I have a very similar round recovered from about two years ago. Wish I had a digital camera, I would post a copy of it. It is one of my converstaion pieces now-a-days.

[mete]

The best bullet catcher I have seen is snow. Styrofoam works well also.

[ajacobs]

I also had dozens after the snow melted.

[Mal H]

Interesting groove markings. Looks like every third one is short and doesn't reach the base of the bullet. I wonder how that can happen. Might be just an optical conclusion.

[Nightcrawler]

Snow is best for recovering bullets, but you usually have to wait until it melts to find them. :)

[Jim March]

Mal H: isn't it obvious?

What's happening is that the jacket is flexing outwards at the bore grooves to "fill in those gaps", but as the jacket is flexed outwards it "bottoms out" in the grooves. Each small scrape represents a "center point" to those bulges.

[Mal H]

Huh? Ok Jim, I 'll take your word for it. :)

[P95Carry]

Interesting groove markings. Looks like every third one is short and doesn't reach the base of the bullet. Re MalH's comment Jim ...... I noticed those and wondered but here is my thinking .....

Ok so .... the lands have ''engraved'' the jacket, much as expected ... but remember, this plowed in to some endgrain semi rotten log .... IMO .... the max dia where these marks are .. has taken up an ''abrasion'' score mark from contact with the wood ...... I'd guess that fired into water would give none of that.

You snow guys ....... strikes me you'd need a shot thru a LOT of snow to stop one ... before it hits anything. Must try that next winter ..... all my shots this winter still impacted berm or equivalent.

[Jim March]

http://www.equalccw.com/bullet.gif

THAT is what happened :D.

[sm]

Huh?
I gotta think on this a bit.

( hey Jim...where's the one-liners?...Kept the day job I see ;) )

[Mal H]

Ah! Gotcha Jim. Good diagram. Seems reasonable.

[P95Carry]

Thx for your trouble Jim ... yep ..... does seem very feasable.

Outa interest .... tho not taken another pic (yet) ... there is one area where that marking is not evident. In four of the six segments it is very obvious, in one it is faint ... and #6 .... can't see anything.

if I have time later I'll take another pic.

[gudel]

interesting pic P95. i'll try to recover one from the polygonal barrel, would be interesting to see what it would look like.

[P95Carry]

Gudel ... yeah, great idea .. look forward to that if you manage .. and I'll try and get another pic of mine to show other side.

[P95Carry]

Just took another quick pic and rotated bullet round a bit from first. In fact, the segment #6 which I thought was unmarked does in fact show a slight mark after all .. but as you can see, way less than section to its right here.


http://www.patriotnetwork.net/cb_gun/45acp_fired_06.jpg

[M67]

Jim, I looked at that diagram for several seconds and the only reaction was "huh?". Then I had a lightbulb moment... :)

You snow guys ....... strikes me you'd need a shot thru a LOT of snow to stop one If my memory serves, a rifle bullet ("full caliber" battle rifle) travels around 3 meters in loose snow, maybe half that in hard, packed snow. There will be variations of course, depending on the consistency of the snow.

[gudel]

is there other media that you can retrieve your bullet intact? there's no snow here, ever. so how about just plain dirt? P95 where did you recover yours from?

[Jim March]

I whipped that pic out in just a couple of minutes with Windows Paint :). The groove depth is of course way out of scale.

Look at the photos of the bullets again, and pay attention to the "large scrapes" instead of the small. Notice how they're actually two heavy scrapes parallel to each other? That's what you'd expect if the areas between the "major scrapes" are "bulged outwards" by pressure - the area between each major scrape is convex, which forces the area of the jacket across the top of the land (the "major scrape") slightly concave.

Which fits my theory :).

This would also explain why jacketed rounds don't go as fast as cast lead: there's clearly some pressure leakage across the area of the jacket that's not scraped at all. Lead forms a better gas seal, plus it's slicker.

[P95Carry]

P95 where did you recover yours from gudel . i did mention in my initial post ...... that I had a paper plate stood in front of the end grain of a partially rotting log .... that bullet entered end grain but also managed to split off a chunk of wood, so it acted like a wedge I'd say ...

By time most of its energy expended, the chunk fell aside and so did bullet....... just laying there on ground!!

The mentions of snow earlier .. gotta say I'd not expect snow to stop even handgun bullets as quick as proposed ..... we had a very crappy and snowy (and prolongued) winter . but never put it to the test .... must try it next time. In freshly fallen snow I'd honestly expect a bullet to travel a considerable distance ..... maybe something like 20 feet or more . I mean.... it is so soft.

Jim, your theory on the expansion makes good sense ... indeed, I would certainly expect better obturation from lead .. and examination of rifling on retrieved lead bullets does bear that out.

[d1]

Over size barrel period.Very common.Ruger are the most common.
The tighest I seen latey are the new springfield XD's.
They generally are running 50 to 100 feet per second
faster than other production barrels of equal length.
Some even very in diameter along the barrel.
When I go for perfection I usually lap the barrel and
order an oversize mold and and over size sizer die.
Also oven heat treat the bullets to a 22 hardnes.
But I usually am shooting magnums for hunting.
I dought if you can find a custom barrel maker any more
that will make a barrel to your specification.
The old timers would.Most custon barrel makers really
custom mass produce and do a little fitting and polishing.
The years of being an apprentice before your considered
a master gunsmith are about over in the usa.There
are alot still in europe.The most demanding fire arm
to make is the double barrel rifle,even the best throw
about half in the trash barrel.Maybe some body from
europe could chime in here.There some good books
to read on fire arms makers.If I was Bill Gates I would have to
build me a mini fort knox to keep my collection.
I might even let my best friend shoot some ,just maybe.
Over size barrels equal less liability.
Ask for a barrel that has to be button rifled to get
what you want.Good luck.Hammer forged are very good
but they are a very cheap and fast to produce.
The next thing in how long a maker will use the
cutting tools on the cnc machine.Thats why you see
some body with same fire arm as you have and his makes
yours look sick.His was made with a new set of cutting tools.
One thing I always do is field strip and look for the tool marks.
Then I deside to buy are hand it back.This where the lemons
come from usually.
Ed

[P95Carry]

d1 ...... Ed, thx for the info (and welcome to THR :) ) ...... it would of course make sense re barrel size ... i have not as yet slugged it.

I intend loading for this gun and once I have accumulated enough cases will slug and get required sizing die for hard cast loads ... of course with factory loads and/or bought bullets ... I potentially have some problem perhaps.

Having said that .... at the distances i am interested in .. I find accuracy lacking very little .. as a SD gun it is ideal ... for me.

[KelBench400]

is there other media that you can retrieve your bullet intact?

I've used gallon milk cartons filled with water to recover expanded jhp's. A 9mm 124gr +P Gold Dot will end up in about the 4th jug.

Just line the jugs up nice and tight and fire away. If you are a decent shot you can use the setup a couple of times. Aim just below the water line.

I'm not sure how many gallons would be needed for fmj's though.


-Kel

[Carnitas]

Easy way of recovering bullets. make a plywood trough, 6in x 6in x 5 feet (approximately). Trough should be open on one end. Fill up zip lock baggies with water and fire into the open end of the tough. This is easier if the trough is on a bench or saw horses, etc. FMJ's come out clean, you could probably reload them. JHP's come out with picture perfect expansion.