[Retro]

1. I am thinking about getting a silencer for my USP tactical, and is Gemtech superior than Knight Armament?

2. I was told that the application is shorter now. But I still need to go through my local police. Could someone explain to me the process of getting one?

3. What is the implication of owning a silencer (now the Feds has me in their record)? Should I be careful? Am I on their watch list? What is the side-effects of owning a silencer legally?

4. Is there a renewal fee every year, or is it a one-time application?

Thanks!

Retro

[wdlsguy]

I was told that the application is shorter now.
Transfer times are measured in weeks instead of months these days.

But I still need to go through my local police.
Only if you apply as an individual. If you form a living trust or an LLC you don't need a CLEO signature.

Could someone explain to me the process of getting one?
Figure out what you want to buy and find a transfer dealer. The dealer will walk you through the paperwork.

What is the implication of owning a silencer (now the Feds has me in their record)? Should I be careful? Am I on their watch list? What is the side-effects of owning a silencer legally?
I don't believe there is any cause for concern.

Is there a renewal fee every year, or is it a one-time application?

There is a $200 transfer tax when you purchase the suppressor. There aren't any annual fees after that.

[heypete]

1. I am thinking about getting a silencer for my USP tactical, and is Gemtech superior than Knight Armament?

I'm honestly not sure. Check out http://www.silencertests.com/ for useful information.

2. I was told that the application is shorter now. But I still need to go through my local police. Could someone explain to me the process of getting one?

If you incorporate and have the company buy the silencer, then there's no police sign-off. Otherwise, if you apply as an individual you need the police sign off.

My procedure consisted of the following (I'm in Arizona):

1) Talk with dealer for a long time (I later tipped him $50 for his time) to find out what's right for me.
2) Dealer orders silencer from Gem-Tech.
3) ATF has to approve transfer from Gem-Tech to dealer, this usually takes about a week or two.
4) Silencer arrives at dealer. Dealer prepares paperwork (ATF Form 4 and fingerprint cards) and gives you appropriate instructions.
5) Get two 2x2 passport pictures taken.
6) You go to the police department to get fingerprinted. It usually helps if you call ahead to find out who you need to speak with regarding National Firearms Act sign-offs, then make an appointment with this person. Provide this person with the Form 4s, any additional paperwork needed (Pima County in Arizona has their own page or two of paperwork), and the pictures if necessary (here they ask that the pictures are not attached to the Form 4s yet, as they need to run them through a typewriter - the sheriff's office here will affix them to the paper).
7) Wait until you hear back from the police informing you that you have the sign-off. When you do, go collect the papers.
8) Mail the ATF Form 4s (with pictures attached) and a check or money order for $200 to the ATF address provided by your dealer (it should be on the Form 4s).
9) Wait.
10) I'm not sure if the ATF mails you or the dealer your Form 4 back, but either way, when it arrives go see your dealer, fill out a 4473 (normal gun purchasing paperwork) and pick up your silencer.

Your mileage may differ slightly. Be sure to ask your dealer whatever questions are necessary for you to proceed comfortably. Call ahead to arrange for the meeting with the police officer who handles NFA paperwork. The NFA process is slow (faster than before, but still slow), so don't try to rush stuff.

3. What is the implication of owning a silencer (now the Feds has me in their record)? Should I be careful? Am I on their watch list? What is the side-effects of owning a silencer legally?

You should, of course, comply with all applicable laws.

You should carry a copy (or several copies) of your Form 4 (front and back) with you wherever you go with your silencer or other NFA articles. This way if a police officer requests it, you can provide it as proof of your legal ownership.

The ATF has occasionally approached holders of Form 4s to request clarification of their documents. The NFA Registry is notoriously unreliable and inaccurate, and occasionally they want to clean things up a bit. From what my dealer says, they're polite, and just want to make a copy of the Form 4 for their records. Not a big deal, really. Otherwise, I've not heard any stories of them bothering folks. You don't waive any rights to privacy (except that they can review your Form 4, and I think they can verify that information against the silencer itself...like checking serial numbers) or anything like that. There are a lot of NFA articles out there that are more "worrisome" to the ATF (machineguns, destructive devices, explosives, etc.) than a little metal cylinder that muffles your shots.

4. Is there a renewal fee every year, or is it a one-time application?

It is a one-time payment of $200. You receive a Form 4 with a tax stamp (make copies!) that proves that you paid the tax and can lawfully own the silencer. No additional taxes, fees, or payments are made in the future. This has been the way it's been run since 1934 (72 years! Pretty long for a government policy.), so I don't foresee it changing anytime soon.

The paperwork really isn't that much of a pain. It took me about 20 minutes to read through all the documents from the dealer and ensure I'm filling out everything appropriately. It took about an hour and a half for me to get fingerprinted by the sheriff's office and drop the paperwork off with the detective for his review. He said NFA sign-offs from the sheriff get taken care of in about two weeks, then I just mail it off to the ATF.

Really, it's not much of a hassle...except for the tax. It'd suck if it were necessary for "regular" guns, but it's not as horrible as some make it out to be.

[Retro]

Thank you so much for the information! I really appreciate it. The gunshop asked me to fill out the form yesterday when I purchased the Tactical, and I was told to put down 50% deposite, and therefore I opted to wait and find out more about this process before committing $325.

The particular Gemtech silencer was quoted to be $650 by the gunshop although on the Gemtech website, it was $550. I may need to shop around.

I don't really need a silencer but I thought I would save some range fee by plinking at home with some sort of metal shielded targeted.

But anyway, thanks for the info.

Retro

[heypete]

Thank you so much for the information! I really appreciate it. The gunshop asked me to fill out the form yesterday when I purchased the Tactical, and I was told to put down 50% deposite, and therefore I opted to wait and find out more about this process before committing $325.

The particular Gemtech silencer was quoted to be $650 by the gunshop although on the Gemtech website, it was $550. I may need to shop around.

Shopping around is always prudent -- when I was looking for full-auto Uzis, I was tempted to pay nearly $8,000 for one (or about $4,000 for a full-auto MAC-11) at the big-name dealer in Scottsdale, AZ. Turns out that I've gotten better service, better pricing, and all in all a much better experience using a small, independent Class III dealer. Really dumb luck, too, as he read one of the other message boards I'm on, and was reasonably local to me. Small world and all that. Turns out I'm getting a suppressor instead of a machinegun, at least for now.

I don't really need a silencer but I thought I would save some range fee by plinking at home with some sort of metal shielded targeted.

Fair enough. If you do it inside, be aware of the lead and other toxic metals emitted by the primer and the bullets. Of course, you should always be aware of your surroundings -- having bullets leave your property is a Very Bad Thing.

Here in Tucson or Phoenix, we can drive out to the desert to shoot with essentially no rules, no hassle, and really no worries at all. It's very relaxing, particularly with friends and a BBQ. I love Arizona, particularly with its good (read: essentially non-existent) NFA-related laws.

[Zak Smith]

Here's a Gemtech Blackside, on a USP. It does not need a Nielsen device due to its low mass if I understand correctly. It is very light. Compared to an EVO-9 (on a Glock 19), the Blackside is much louder when shot dry, but closer to the same volume when wet (we used CLP).

http://demigod.org/~zak/DigiCam/PRM-2006.11/smaller/D100_5353_img.jpg (http://demigod.org/~zak/DigiCam/PRM-2006.11/?small=D100_5353_img.jpg) [ link to LARGER image ] (http://demigod.org/~zak/DigiCam/PRM-2006.11/?small=D100_5353_img.jpg)

[Retro]

It looks awesome! I need to get me one of that. :D

How loud is it? Like opening a can of soda? Or little opening a champaign bottle?

[Zak Smith]

Dry, it was above the threshold of pain, louder than a full-power 5.56 round through a HALO/M4-96D. Wet, it was quieter than an EVO-9 on a Glock 19, but very smokey.