3 Detroit PD guns stolen in a Week!


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Autolycus
December 11, 2006, 06:29 AM
Link To Article (http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061211/METRO/612110394)

Not Again: Another Thief takes a cop's gun
Amy Lee / The Detroit News

DETROIT -- A thief made off with a Detroit police officer's gun and private car at a Southfield gas station Sunday morning, the latest embarrassing episode for a department reeling from a week punctuated by prisoner escapes and gun thefts.

The off-duty officer, who was not identified, was pumping gas into her black Cadillac at the Citgo at Eight Mile and Evergreen around 10 a.m. Sunday when someone jumped into her car and drove off, said James Tate, police spokesman. Inside the car were the officer's purse, police badge and department-issued Glock, Tate said.

Police followed the car to Detroit, where they were involved in an accident with a civilian vehicle at the intersection of Charles and Mound roads, Tate said. An officer and the unidentified female driver suffered minor injuries, and the car thief was able to escape, Tate said.

Police found the off-duty officer's purse Sunday afternoon near the entrance to Marygrove College, minus the gun, he said.

"Her purse, along with the badge and other personal items, were recovered, but the gun was not and the vehicle was not," Tate said.

The theft marks the third time in less than a week that criminals have stolen guns from Detroit police officers or reserve officers.

Police said Detroiter Deandre Riley, 23, wrested a Glock from an officer early Wednesday morning at Detroit Receiving Hospital, where he had been taken because he complained he was ill. Riley carjacked an ambulance and fled, but was back in police custody by the end of the day.

That gun was recovered, and Riley is incarcerated and awaiting trial on several charges, including armed robbery and disarming a police officer.

And a Detroit reserve officer's gun was stolen while the officer was working out at a gym in Highland Park last week.

The officer's personal gun, a .45-caliber Smith & Wesson, was taken from his truck near Woodward and Six Mile, said John Roach, a spokesman for the Wayne County Sheriff's Office, which patrols Highland Park.

The police officer's badge was also stolen, Roach said.

Adding to the spate of incidents, officers said that on Saturday they grappled with yet another escapee when Tina Jones, 45, fled Detroit Receiving Hospital after an officer removed her handcuffs to allow her to use the restroom.

Jones, who was arrested in a drug case, fled about 2 p.m. but was back in police custody at 4:45 p.m., when her husband took her to the Central District office on Woodward Avenue, Tate said.

She remained in custody Sunday night.

Tate said both escape incidents are being investigated to ensure officers followed proper procedures.

"These are totally different situations. The policies are very well-written, but it's a matter of whether the policies were being heeded to," Tate said.

"Two is too many. They were in the care of officers, and it did happen in one week, but when you look at the overall numbers of people we deal with every day, you have to put it in perspective."

You can reach Amy Lee at (313) 222-2548 or alee@detnews.com.

Check out the area I bolded.

3 Guns stolen in a week? What is going on in Detroit? They might as well just issue the guns to the criminals at this rate.

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SAG0282
December 11, 2006, 07:04 AM
D'oh!

And worse....I can just hear it. "If it can happen to a police officer..." :mad: :scrutiny: :cuss: :banghead: :rolleyes:

model 649
December 11, 2006, 12:53 PM
Just carelessness and irresponsibility, nothing more or less. Lately(this year),this sort of thing has been going on with beat officers and sheriff's deputys alike. All but one incident has been has been patently preventable. They(the officers) don't seem to get in much trouble over this stuff, for now. I wonder if that will change if/when someone gets hurt/killed because of such contributions to criminal arsenals.
Josh

DoubleTapDrew
December 11, 2006, 03:41 PM
They should say "If you lose this we aren't giving your another" when they are issued their weapons :p
I wonder if recovery of those guns is higher priority than "civilian" gun thefts. I'll probably never see mine again.

carebear
December 11, 2006, 04:48 PM
I doubt the thief knew it was a cop pumping gas, just some idiot who left the keys in their Caddy and was unaware of her surroundings. Badge and gun were a bonus after the fact.

Unless the reserve cop's truck was marked in some way that theft was just a wrong place/ wrong time as well. Though a cop should know as well or better than the average guy to lock the gun up in something. (assuming it wasn't).

As for getting the gun taken away. That can happen to anybody, even those trained in retention. It's a "bad" thing but bears no relation to the thefts in any meaningful way. Remember it is human nature to see patterns even where there aren't any.

There's some carelessness involved here but, at this point anyway, I'm not seeing any blatant hypocrisy.

MechAg94
December 11, 2006, 04:49 PM
I often leave my CHL gun in the truck. Might have to think about that.

carebear
December 11, 2006, 04:52 PM
I bought one of these. Inexpensive and will prevent a smash and grab artist (no real tools) from making off with your piece.

Better than just sticking it under the seat.

http://www.center-of-mass.com/

Sportsman's Warehouse had them.

MechAg94
December 11, 2006, 04:58 PM
My center drink tray section pops out and gives access to underneath the center console. Is that a fairly well known hiding place?

crunker
December 11, 2006, 05:08 PM
To be quite honest, I'd rather see a GLOCK in circulation among high-crime area residents who are not legally able to own guns than in the hands of a cop.

carebear
December 11, 2006, 05:15 PM
Mech,

If you've thought of it, the good thieves have as well. Just spend the $37.50 and secure a simple lockbox in there or somewhere else.

Why risk losing a $400 gun over the cost of a night out at the movies or 2 steaks at Outback?

Lest you think I'm being preachy, I waited until just over a year ago to get serious about locking up my gun in my car. So I'm as guilty as anyone else.

Better safe than sorry at twice the price.

Jeff White
December 11, 2006, 05:25 PM
This is only news because it's a cop. Does anyone here think that the three officers were targeted because they were cops?

How many THR members leave firearms in their vehicles? By the number of car gun threads posted here, I'd met a lot of them.

They(the officers) don't seem to get in much trouble over this stuff, for now. I wonder if that will change if/when someone gets hurt/killed because of such contributions to criminal arsenals.

I'd ask you to point out a case or two where a civilian got in any trouble for having his gun stolen and making a contribution to the crimnal arsenal?

How much trouble should a civilian get into when his/her gun is stolen?

Jeff

carebear
December 11, 2006, 05:35 PM
Exactly, if they weren't cops, it wouldn't have been news. If it wasn't "newsworthy" no one would ever have seen a "pattern". :rolleyes:

It just happened that a couple fairly normal events, car theft at station and parking lot break-in, occured to cops.

The hospital gun grab is the only "newsworthy" (as in isn't a normal occurance) item in the report. And that perp was caught and the gun recovered.

MechAg94
December 11, 2006, 05:51 PM
carebear, no preaching taken. I like the idea of getting a lock box. Have to figure out where to put it. Might be easier to secure it in the back since I have a cover over my pickup bed. We'll see.

During the summer when a KelTec P32 is all that is comfortable to carry, a larger gun in the truck is more reassuring.

carebear
December 11, 2006, 05:57 PM
Mech,

If you scroll down on their website you'll see the cable option.

I have a standard cab Chevy and that's how I have mine. The cable is looped around the seat base and then the big loop on the cable is secured in the lockbox. I can pull it up on the seat for access and just shove it down out of the way under the seat for storage. No muss, no fuss and you can arm/disarm with discretion.

Inside the cab is probably more secure than under a bed cover anyway.

PennsyPlinker
December 11, 2006, 06:28 PM
This is only news because it's a cop. Does anyone here think that the three officers were targeted because they were cops?

I agree completely with you Jeff. But my question is, how many people close the door and lock it when they are filling the car or truck with gas? People who know me laugh at me because any and every time I step out of my truck, I lock it - even if I am standing right next to it. When they ask me why, I tell them the truth. Locking it every time is a habit, so I never have to think, "Did I remember to lock the truck or not?" Yeah, there is a gun inside, usually two or three, counting the one in my pocket. Those lock box things are nice, but you can't get a gun out of one in a hurry. Not only that, but often there is a camera, PDA, cell phone, and all sorts of other stuff I would not want a bad guy to have if at all possible. For me, the whole truck is the lock box.

PennsyPlinker
December 11, 2006, 06:31 PM
I bought one of these. Inexpensive and will prevent a smash and grab artist (no real tools) from making off with your piece.

Better than just sticking it under the seat.

I think these are a good idea, and am seriously thinking about getting one for my wife so she can carry back and forth to work (she is not allowed to have one at work). For me I have too much stuff to cram into a box like this, so I just lock the doors every time I exit the vehicle.

model 649
December 11, 2006, 06:35 PM
Fair enough, Jeff. I was remembering the two select-fire guns(MP5 and M4) that were stolen as I wrote(which really angered me, at the time). I hope NOT to be held responsible for what happens if MY guns are stolen. However, I don't carry "off my person". I would think LEO's have better "in-vehicle" options for their arms. A crook can't take my car AND my handgun easily at the same time. I do my best to control my guns(and cars), and feel strongly that those who carry theirs as a matter of course in their jobs should do better than they have lately(setting the example). Leaving one's handgun, MP5, or M4 on/under/in back of,the seat, or keys in one's car for that matter in this town and walking away, even "for a minute" is plain careless at any hour.
Josh

Jeff White
December 11, 2006, 06:56 PM
model 649,
I'm not aware of any agency that issues a vehicle lock box to their officers. There might be one, but I'm not aware of it.

Police officers are human beings just like everyone else. As human beings they are subject to the same things like momentary lapses and carelessness as anyone else.

As to off body carry, officers who work in certain technical fields (like CSI techs despite what they do on TV) or behind desks most of the time sometimes get caught up in the off body carry thing. A (now retired) ISP Master Sergeant showed up at our PD to drop some paperwork off (the troopers who worked in this part of the district often used our office as a sort of a substation, saving them a 45 mile drive to headquarters) as I was walking out. "***** where's your gun?" I asked as I noticed his holster was empty. "&^%*$ I must have left it in the desk drawer." was his reply as he headed back for his car to go retrieve his pistol, "Sure glad I didn't decide to write a ticket on the way down here" was his final comment. Quite simply his duties kept him behind a desk at headquarters and for personal comfort he put his weapon in a desk drawer. I don't condone it, but it happens.

As for automatic weapons, it's not always feasible for them to be kept in an arms room for issue when needed. I am issued an M16A1. I won't go into how I secure it, but I will say it's never left in a vehicle unless I am working and near the vehicle. Travelling to training or for operations where officers or agents must operate out of hotel rooms create some unique security concerns. You have to weigh the chance of letting everyone know who and what you are by carrying your weapons into a hotel (then you have the problem of leaving them in an unattended hotel room while your eat etc.) against the possibilty of someone stealing your vehicle.

I am all for dealing with negligence harshly. But at some point people have to recognize the dangers of the world we live in and realize that even the police can be victims of a crime.

Jeff

wheelgunslinger
December 11, 2006, 07:24 PM
Excellent points Jeff White.

Our local PD also doubles as SWAT, so they have an armload of stuff in their trunks. But those are marked cars. Anytime they're off duty, and in their own vehicles, I don't know many who leave their weapons in the vehicles.
Our meth problem is just starting here (the way it is up north) and carjacking is on the rise.
I know I'm usually troubled once or twice a week with "ah crap, I need to go to the bank, but I have my .357 with me and I'm on my motorcycle", so I'm sure it's easy for people with locking doors and a glove box to just toss it in and lock it up. My '54 Ford is pretty easy to break in to, so I never leave anything in there I want to keep.
Back to the point: Yeah, it wouldn't be news if it wasn't LEOs involved. But, the rest of us can take a page from it as well. Even with a badge, a batman belt, and a uniform people will still try to wrestle your gun away on occasion.
Best to keep concealed and if you open carry, stay frosty.

Ryder
December 11, 2006, 11:20 PM
I don't think we are at equal risk of losing guns considering many of the disarmament zones do not apply to cops.

I agree that arming criminals isn't good but that wasn't always a consideration. Used to be that losing government property was the big deal.

It is worse to have someone elses property stolen from me than it is to lose my own.

thexrayboy
December 12, 2006, 12:04 AM
What happened to these officers are just random events. They make the news because they are officers. Is it stupid to leave a gun unattended in your car? Under certain circumstances it would be. Should these people be locked up or punished if their actions meet the criteria for being stupid resulting in the loss of their weapon. I hope not. When we start locking up and punishing people for being stupid or doing stupid things there will be no end. Everone will be behind bars for none of us are immune to the stupid gene.

DoubleTapDrew
December 12, 2006, 12:40 AM
I don't fault the cops. Like Jeff White said, we are all human. We need to take the steps to make sure our weapons aren't easy to take. I had a gun taken from my truck when it was broken into. I won't make that mistake again.

My center drink tray section pops out and gives access to underneath the center console. Is that a fairly well known hiding place?
It depends on who you talk to. I used to have a (on second thought I won't say what vehicle) and used that spot for a .380 BUG. That vehicle was broken into when I lived in an apartment (along with every other GM truck in the lot, someone had a master key). The BG didn't find it and didn't take anything other than a couple CD's after going through all the receipts in the console. My GF had some vicodin in her truck for back pain, that was gone.

Autolycus
December 12, 2006, 03:49 AM
This is only news because it's a cop. Does anyone here think that the three officers were targeted because they were cops?

How many THR members leave firearms in their vehicles? By the number of car gun threads posted here, I'd met a lot of them.


Quote:
They(the officers) don't seem to get in much trouble over this stuff, for now. I wonder if that will change if/when someone gets hurt/killed because of such contributions to criminal arsenals.

I'd ask you to point out a case or two where a civilian got in any trouble for having his gun stolen and making a contribution to the crimnal arsenal?

How much trouble should a civilian get into when his/her gun is stolen?

Jeff

Ah but the problem is that a lot of gun grabbers want to make people responsible if the gun is stolen from them. The antis want us to be liable for the thiefs use of thegun.

Do you think they will force these police officers to be liable?

Or...

What about the simple facts that some of the guns were paid for with tax dollars? If the officer had acted more responsibly we would not have to purchase them a new gun with our tax dollars. Not to mention one more gun in the hands of a criminal.

That is why it is newsworthy. A few negligent officers armed criminals and wasted tax payers money simply because of their own incompetence. That is why it is newsworthy.

jeepmor
December 12, 2006, 03:58 AM
Ah but the problem is that a lot of gun grabbers want to make people responsible if the gun is stolen from them. The antis want us to be liable for the thiefs use of the gun.

Do you think they will force these police officers to be liable?

Good luck with that!

Jeff White
December 12, 2006, 04:09 AM
Tecumseh said;
Ah but the problem is that a lot of gun grabbers want to make people responsible if the gun is stolen from them. The antis want us to be liable for the thiefs use of thegun.

Is that law anywhere? The antis want everyone disarmed, including the police, has that happened? I'd like a new F250 extended cab 4x4, free and clear without having to pay taxes on it.....Darn that hasn't happened either...People want a lot of things that never happen.

Do you think they will force these police officers to be liable?

Do you think they can force a civilian to be liable? Be real here.

What about the simple facts that some of the guns were paid for with tax dollars? If the officer had acted more responsibly we would not have to purchase them a new gun with our tax dollars.

How do you know they didn't face administrative sanctions for losing government property. Most agencies don't allow you to do thing like wreak your squad car in an accident that's your fault, lose or destroy equipment through negligence. Those kinds of things can get you suspended, reprimanded and have restitution docked from your pay. What's Detroit PDs policy for losing a weapon? Do you know or are you just looking for another excuse to let your antagonism against the police show itself?

Your homework assignment is to find out what the administrative rules are on Detroit PD then report back.

That is why it is newsworthy. A few negligent officers armed criminals and wasted tax payers money simply because of their own incompetence.

Ever wasted any taxpayer money? Diverted any Pell grant money to CDs and things like that and had to scramble to pay for tuition and books? Screwed off on your student job? Called in sick so you could go to a concert? Diverted any university property to personal use? Ever made a boneheaded decision and then regretted it?

I think that if you've never done something careless yourself then maybe you're in a position to throw stones here. If you have then maybe you're not.

Jeff

Autolycus
December 12, 2006, 08:11 PM
Jeff White Private message sent.

gunsmith
December 12, 2006, 11:45 PM
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=240182

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