NIGHTWATCH
May 25, 2003, 04:04 AM
This pretty much says it all. :fire:
Caesar
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CZ-75
May 25, 2003, 04:11 AM
He hasn't done it yet, just made it apparent he will if given a chance.
Our battleground is Congress, not the White House.
Our battleground is Congress, not the White House.
agricola
May 25, 2003, 04:43 AM
the cartoon would work better with gun rights man as caesar and dubya as brutus
WonderNine
May 25, 2003, 04:49 AM
Hmm...I don't think so.
agricola
May 25, 2003, 05:24 AM
well thats certainly the way history and shakespeare portrayed the event....
NIGHTWATCH
May 25, 2003, 05:35 AM
He hasnt done it yet? :rolleyes:
I like Bush, but the fact that he would even consider supporting the likes of Chuck Schumer in extending this unconstitutional ban and not take a couragous and articulate stand for the 2A, like he did against affirmative action, for Islam, for Iraqi freedom and about 9/11, takes its toll on me as a voter. He is talking out of both ends of his mouth here and Im getting sick of being played against the middle. Sick of it.
It was the gunowner that put him into the white house and they can put him out. Do I want a gun grabber for president? NO. But the republican party needs to find some guts on this issue and push WHILE IT CAN to address this once and for all and stop playing politics with our lives. Not decades later when many of us right here may have to do some time because our elected officials betrayed us. The "lesser of two evils" argument just doesnt do it for me anymore. And Im tired of being held hostage. :fire:
I like Bush, but the fact that he would even consider supporting the likes of Chuck Schumer in extending this unconstitutional ban and not take a couragous and articulate stand for the 2A, like he did against affirmative action, for Islam, for Iraqi freedom and about 9/11, takes its toll on me as a voter. He is talking out of both ends of his mouth here and Im getting sick of being played against the middle. Sick of it.
It was the gunowner that put him into the white house and they can put him out. Do I want a gun grabber for president? NO. But the republican party needs to find some guts on this issue and push WHILE IT CAN to address this once and for all and stop playing politics with our lives. Not decades later when many of us right here may have to do some time because our elected officials betrayed us. The "lesser of two evils" argument just doesnt do it for me anymore. And Im tired of being held hostage. :fire:
CZ-75
May 25, 2003, 06:21 AM
He hasnt done it yet?
Exactly. All we have is some equivocations that lead us to the conclusion that he'll sell us down the river.
What is difficult to understand about that?:rolleyes:
Exactly. All we have is some equivocations that lead us to the conclusion that he'll sell us down the river.
What is difficult to understand about that?:rolleyes:
WonderNine
May 25, 2003, 08:04 AM
well thats certainly the way history and shakespeare portrayed the event....
You want the gun lobby portrayed as Caesar? I don't think so...:D
You want the gun lobby portrayed as Caesar? I don't think so...:D
Lone_Gunman
May 25, 2003, 08:28 AM
Even if Bush signs the AWB renewal, he is not stabbing anyone in the back.
For the millionth time now, he said he would sign AWB renewal BEFORE, thats right, BEFORE the election in 2000.
So if he signs it, he will just be doing what he said he was going to do.
If you voted for him without knowing this piece of information, it is no ones fault but your OWN, and instead of playing with guns so much, maybe you need to start watching the news or reading the newspaper.
For the millionth time now, he said he would sign AWB renewal BEFORE, thats right, BEFORE the election in 2000.
So if he signs it, he will just be doing what he said he was going to do.
If you voted for him without knowing this piece of information, it is no ones fault but your OWN, and instead of playing with guns so much, maybe you need to start watching the news or reading the newspaper.
Baba Louie
May 25, 2003, 09:02 AM
A Stab in the Front, by a Man who NEVER Equivocated his word on the matter, is a far, far better thing than being stabbed in the back, right? I mean, the Man does have Honor. If you disagree (and thats fine) please remember GWB's predecessor in the Oval Office for contrast of "honor".
It still hurts tho' (being stabbed) and I think we'd like to be able to duck the thrust as it were, in light of the proposed additions, or just for the sake of common sense.
Please do remember who the other choice was at the time and what his parties stated intentions were then and still are today.
Maybe it won't reach his desk in any way, shape or form (I hate rider clauses), cause if it does, you and I know he'll do just what he said he'd do and who would really expect anything less?
I just wish he'd never said it back then in the first place. (sigh)
Adios
It still hurts tho' (being stabbed) and I think we'd like to be able to duck the thrust as it were, in light of the proposed additions, or just for the sake of common sense.
Please do remember who the other choice was at the time and what his parties stated intentions were then and still are today.
Maybe it won't reach his desk in any way, shape or form (I hate rider clauses), cause if it does, you and I know he'll do just what he said he'd do and who would really expect anything less?
I just wish he'd never said it back then in the first place. (sigh)
Adios
Lone_Gunman
May 25, 2003, 09:31 AM
Bush has everything to gain by "supporting" the AWB renewal.
The moderates and liberals can't accuse him of being a puppet for the NRA. Soccer Moms will think he is trying to keep them and their babies safe by eliminating evil weapons.
As long as the bill actually doesn't reach his desk, then most gunners are not going to care what he says.
He hopes he can pull moderates to him, without pushing right wing gun nuts like us away, and it will probably work.
If however, a renewal bill does pass the Congress, then George has screwed himself, and can't sit on the fence. In that case I have no doubt he would sign the renewal, as promised.
Now if a Democrat such as Al Gore was president, not only would he be in support of renewal, but he would be actively campaigning for it. He would have big city Police Chiefs, the Brady's, and a few paraplegics in the Rose Garden, and give speeches on how terrible guns are.
Bush says he supports the ban... then winks... then moves on to other business.
The moderates and liberals can't accuse him of being a puppet for the NRA. Soccer Moms will think he is trying to keep them and their babies safe by eliminating evil weapons.
As long as the bill actually doesn't reach his desk, then most gunners are not going to care what he says.
He hopes he can pull moderates to him, without pushing right wing gun nuts like us away, and it will probably work.
If however, a renewal bill does pass the Congress, then George has screwed himself, and can't sit on the fence. In that case I have no doubt he would sign the renewal, as promised.
Now if a Democrat such as Al Gore was president, not only would he be in support of renewal, but he would be actively campaigning for it. He would have big city Police Chiefs, the Brady's, and a few paraplegics in the Rose Garden, and give speeches on how terrible guns are.
Bush says he supports the ban... then winks... then moves on to other business.
Coronach
May 25, 2003, 12:33 PM
I have to agree with LoneGunman on this one.
Will Dubya sell us out on this? Yes.
Did he say all along that he would? Yes.
So stop acting all startled about it.
That said, he is certainly not campaigning actively for it, which is a heck of a lot better a situation than we would have if we had Gore in there. LoneGunman is right...if the bill dies in congress, Dubya isn't going to lift a finger to save it. If it passes congress, however, I imagine he will sign it.
Mike
Will Dubya sell us out on this? Yes.
Did he say all along that he would? Yes.
So stop acting all startled about it.
That said, he is certainly not campaigning actively for it, which is a heck of a lot better a situation than we would have if we had Gore in there. LoneGunman is right...if the bill dies in congress, Dubya isn't going to lift a finger to save it. If it passes congress, however, I imagine he will sign it.
Mike
Don Gwinn
May 25, 2003, 12:37 PM
Uhhh. . . . why is everyone saying the gun-rights guy should be portrayed as Caesar? He is. He's the one with the knife in his back, he's the one addressing the "Brutus" character, he's the one speaking Caesar's lines.
Are you all assuming Dubya is Caesar in this cartoon just because he's wearing that salad garnish on his head?
Are you all assuming Dubya is Caesar in this cartoon just because he's wearing that salad garnish on his head?
agricola
May 25, 2003, 12:45 PM
don,
its the title of the cartoon that gives the impression that the roles have been reversed - "a gift from brutus" would be more appropriate (or cassius/tillius/casca and so on).
its the title of the cartoon that gives the impression that the roles have been reversed - "a gift from brutus" would be more appropriate (or cassius/tillius/casca and so on).
NIGHTWATCH
May 25, 2003, 01:01 PM
"Instead of playing with guns so much, maybe you should
start watching the news and reading the newspaper."- Lone_Gunman
You know LG, arguing on the internet is like running in the special olympics. Even if you win, your still retarded. So lets not get carried away. :D
My problem is not that I dont watch enough news. Its this method of compromise by elected officials that has brought us here in the first place. We are just taking to many chances for their ambition. Gun control will end in america only when we end the compromises. In the meantime, if the AWB makes it to the presidents desk and he signs it, I wont vote for him. I may not show up to vote at all. Id rather see Bush lose and cut my own throat politically to teach anyone interested in the long term direction of this country a lesson. Take the 2nd amendment seriously. As serious as cancer.
"Every day that congress sits, american freedoms are being lost" - Mark Levin
start watching the news and reading the newspaper."- Lone_Gunman
You know LG, arguing on the internet is like running in the special olympics. Even if you win, your still retarded. So lets not get carried away. :D
My problem is not that I dont watch enough news. Its this method of compromise by elected officials that has brought us here in the first place. We are just taking to many chances for their ambition. Gun control will end in america only when we end the compromises. In the meantime, if the AWB makes it to the presidents desk and he signs it, I wont vote for him. I may not show up to vote at all. Id rather see Bush lose and cut my own throat politically to teach anyone interested in the long term direction of this country a lesson. Take the 2nd amendment seriously. As serious as cancer.
"Every day that congress sits, american freedoms are being lost" - Mark Levin
Mizzoutiger
May 25, 2003, 07:31 PM
Yeah agricola, they did screw up the cartoon pretty bad.
Lone_Gunman
May 25, 2003, 07:53 PM
Well Nightwatch, you are not the only one to have indicated surprise that Bush is going to sign the AWB if it gets to him...
So really, the question was making me feel like I was in a race in the Special Olympics.
But I was the guy who could at least tie his own shoes.
Anyway, I can understand you not voting for Bush if he does sign the AWB. I am sure a lot of people wont, and we will get a democrat for sure.
That would be fine, if it were a single isue campaign I guess, but I still dont want a Democrat in charge of foreign policy, taxes, welfare, or anything else.
If you think the War on Terror is bad now, just wait til you get a Democrat for President.
So really, the question was making me feel like I was in a race in the Special Olympics.
But I was the guy who could at least tie his own shoes.
Anyway, I can understand you not voting for Bush if he does sign the AWB. I am sure a lot of people wont, and we will get a democrat for sure.
That would be fine, if it were a single isue campaign I guess, but I still dont want a Democrat in charge of foreign policy, taxes, welfare, or anything else.
If you think the War on Terror is bad now, just wait til you get a Democrat for President.
Solinvictus70
May 26, 2003, 01:58 AM
Democrats are Communists, Republicans are Fabian Socialists: either way we are facing the same threats. The entire notion of individual freedom is alien in modern government.
Shooter 2.5
May 26, 2003, 08:25 AM
Lone Gunman,
You're correct. The ones that are complaining have no idea what happened during the election. They never listened to the debates. They didn't listen to what was said during the interviews and I'm sure their entire involvment was limited to going to the polls, if that.
Now they're waking up two years later and their only solution is, if he signs it, they won't vote for him. Big deal. Chances are, they didn't vote for him before. It's also easy to say they didn't work for any candidate who would vote against the bill.
The NRA knew before the election that he would sign the bill so they did everything they could to get A rated candidates because they knew the ones in office then would be the ones who would vote on the bill.
We're in pretty good shape only because of the work that was done during the last two elections. Now all we have to do is remind the politicians who helped them get there and vote against the ban.
You're correct. The ones that are complaining have no idea what happened during the election. They never listened to the debates. They didn't listen to what was said during the interviews and I'm sure their entire involvment was limited to going to the polls, if that.
Now they're waking up two years later and their only solution is, if he signs it, they won't vote for him. Big deal. Chances are, they didn't vote for him before. It's also easy to say they didn't work for any candidate who would vote against the bill.
The NRA knew before the election that he would sign the bill so they did everything they could to get A rated candidates because they knew the ones in office then would be the ones who would vote on the bill.
We're in pretty good shape only because of the work that was done during the last two elections. Now all we have to do is remind the politicians who helped them get there and vote against the ban.
wQuay
May 26, 2003, 09:55 AM
He hasn't done it yet,
Stabbed us in the back? No. Burned the Bill of Rights? Yes.
Stabbed us in the back? No. Burned the Bill of Rights? Yes.
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