45-70 recoil ?


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chrisj08
December 12, 2006, 08:36 PM
hey guys im new to this forum and i am fixing to buy a h&r single shot 45-70 i am not exactly the biggest guy in the world i am like 120 pounds and im just wondering how bad for instance a remington 300 grain factory load is gona buck me or something it kicks like anything u can tell me about the recoil of this gun like im almost 17 will it be that big of a deal for me to shoot or do any of u have any hand load recipies that reduces recoil i have seen a cuple on here already any information helps me a lot so please post what u know

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bartsimpson123844
December 12, 2006, 09:36 PM
I don't have any personal experiance, but this table might help you: http://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm

grimjaw
December 12, 2006, 09:43 PM
My experience with factory loads, out of a Marlin 1895 rifle, was that it was a strong push but not painful. I'm sure you could work up a load that would hurt, but Remington of Federal 300 grain standard loads will just give you a strong shove as long as you shoulder the rifle correctly. A recoil pad will take all the sting out of it.

jm

chrisj08
December 12, 2006, 10:07 PM
im not too good at interpreting that chart but does that basicaly say that the 405 grain bullets kicks less than the 300 ???

RecoilRob
December 12, 2006, 10:25 PM
The factory 405's are mild enough for a Trapdoor Springfield to use safely and are a pleasure to shoot in the Marlin Guide Gun.

The 300's are a LOT faster and, although they weigh less, they kick a bit more and the muzzle blast from them is noticeably greater.

If you have the ability to handload the 45/70 you can make anything from mild to retina-detatching WILD. I'd recommend a box or two of the Rem 405's to start with and see how you tolerate them before moving up to anything else.

Jackal
December 12, 2006, 10:33 PM
You may also try inserting a few periods into that super long sentence.:neener:

wanderinwalker
December 12, 2006, 10:35 PM
My experience with a Marlin Guide Gun; the 405s DO kick less than the 300s. Neither is as abusive as, say, a lightweight '06, but they do get your attention.

After having sat down (rather, stood up) and fired a box of 20 405gr reloads at one sitting, in under 10 mins, I don't think the .45-70 is unbearable by any means.

I'm 150 pounds or so, but am accustomed to powerful long arms.

Car Knocker
December 12, 2006, 10:38 PM
I'm 150 pounds or so, but am accustomed to powerful long arms.

There's such a thing as Too Much Information. :D

starsandstriper
December 12, 2006, 10:42 PM
can any of you comparethe kick of the 45-70 to that of any particular shotgun with any particular load?

Riktoven
December 12, 2006, 10:44 PM
I've only shot .45-70 in a handgun, so my comments may not mean much.

It was painful, but only because of the funky lever hanging off the TC triggerguard. If it weren't for that, no problems for a handful of shots. I imagine out of a rifle it would be considerably less noticable.

Nhsport
December 12, 2006, 10:56 PM
Recoil affects folks differently. I believe the H&R is actually fairly heavy and that should help you. The 405's are not horrible but it is a centerfire rifle. Pull the gun back firm into your shoulder.Start off standing up as your body standing will move some while if you are sitting at a bench or prone you will take more of a pounding. If you are still unsure start with a slip on recoil pad over whatever comes on the H&R as standard. You might have to use a combination of some of these hints to be comfortable but I would think it is doable

Lone_Gunman
December 12, 2006, 11:07 PM
I shoot a couple of 45-70's regularly. One is a Sharps, the other is a Winchester 1886 lever.

To me, even 405g light loads in 45-70 are worse than most 30-06 or 308 Winchester. I have some 300 grain loads that are even worse.

After about 20 rounds of 45-70, I am getting pretty tired of it, and after 40 rounds, I am ready to find something else to do, including taking some Motrin for the headache it has given me.

45-70 is the only caliber I have that I routinely wear a recoil pad to shoot. That said, don't let the recoil scare you off... its part of the thrill of the 45-70.

LHB1
December 12, 2006, 11:58 PM
Try using some punctuation!!!!!!!!!!!!

LHB1

TIMC
December 13, 2006, 12:41 AM
I have an H&R single shot buffalo classic with the steel cressent butt plate and some of the factory loads can be fairly miseable to shoot. I found a hand load I like that is comfortable to shoot and very accurate. 57.0 grains of Varget with a 300 grain JHP bullet.

Yeemix
December 13, 2006, 01:00 AM
Not trying to hijack your thread, but I was looking into the Marin 1895GS, and if I don't reload, what's about the cost of shooting this caliber?

db_tanker
December 13, 2006, 07:10 AM
Its somewhat high...I know Cabela's sells 45-70 cast loads in bulk...all in all your looking at approximately a dollar a round...

Might I suggest a lee hand press and a small gathering of essential tools to make it somewhat cheaper...

IMR-3031, Traillboss and RL-7 are three powders I tend to reach for when I am getting ready to roll some ammo for my TC carbine.


Chirsj08,

the 405's are actually some excellent rounds to play with...PMC makes a good cowboy action cast bullet round that is a powder puff compared to some other ammo out there...Winchester makes a stout loading with a 300 gr. Partition loading...that load killed a cheap scope after 3 rounds. :) Now it has a better scope that has lasted for a little while. That Handi-Rifle DOES weigh a bit more than my TC...its full Rynite and only tips the scales at about 6 lbs...it will let you know that your shooting a handfull...and that is with a muzzle-tamer...

To compare...think about shooting a good 870 Express Magnum, loaded up with #4 Magnum Turkey loads...(I will get my birds from the freezer section, thank you) This is with MINE...never shot a Handi...

D

wanderinwalker
December 13, 2006, 09:08 AM
There's such a thing as Too Much Information.

Doh!! :banghead:

Anyway, as for comparison to a shotgun, I'd say the .45-70 is more pleasant than shooting magnum field loads from a 12ga, and more pleasant than slug loads from my 20ga. Either one is something that you'll notice, but it won't kill you.

Cost wise, you're looking at $23+ a box of 20 if you don't reload. With reloading, it only costs about $38-45 per 100, which is certainly an improvement. And if you reload you can use Trail Boss, which is wickedly entertaining! :cool:

Jim Watson
December 13, 2006, 09:33 AM
.45-70 kicks like a sob worse in a light rifle like handr
reason i shoot a .38-55

JCF
December 13, 2006, 10:12 AM
I don't personally agree that the 45-70 "kicks like a SOB".

I shoot 45-70 in a Marlin 1895G. It is equipped with the factory recoil pad. I have not found recoil to be any kind of problem whatsoever with any traditional factory loads. With light handloads it becomes a pussycat. Heavy handloads on the other hand can make it into a monster. My 14 year old son is able to shoot it all day long without complaint. If you can handle a 308, etc... you shouldn't have any problem with the 45-70. Throw on a decent recoil pad and you should be fine. Without a pad... well, that may be a bit much for you. My son's little 16" Winchester 94AE in 44mag hurts with hot loads and no pad.

stoky
December 13, 2006, 10:13 AM
The kick from a .45-70 is wonderful. It not only stimulates, but clears the sinuses and enhances regularity.

X-Rap
December 13, 2006, 10:26 AM
45-70 reloading manuels show 3 catagories. The older trapdoor and blackpowder rifles, the new marlins, and the ruger no.1. I shoot the midrange in a guide gun and 12" contender. Both are ported and the rifle has a decent pad but you know when you shoot it. The h&r might equal the no.1 in which case you can load close to 458 Win. but that would certainly kick.

Jim Watson
December 13, 2006, 10:31 AM
Well... recoil is highly subjective, but...

You dang bet it is. I was trying to keep my reply at the Original Poster's level of literacy, but I really do find the .45-70's recoil to be objectionable. But I am a BPCR target shooter and have to fire a good number of accurate shots with full power (black powder) loads from a locked in buffalo stick position. Even with a heavy rifle and a Rand shoulder pad, I was a little punchy after a silhouette shoot with .45-70. So I shoot a .38-55 and put up with the occasional "rung" ram target.

But I know a lot of folks who shoot .45-70s without complaint and a few who use something bigger yet. About as many who have gone to the .40s.

Even the U.S. Army knew the .45-70 kicked; they had the separate .45-55-405 carbine load for the short guns.

ETXhiker
December 13, 2006, 10:39 AM
...that load killed a cheap scope after 3 rounds. Now it has a better scope that has lasted for a little while.

DB Tanker, may I ask what the two scopes were? I'm wanting a low power scope for my Marlin '95 and wondering what will stand up to full house .45-70 loads?

db_tanker
December 13, 2006, 10:56 AM
The kick from a .45-70 is wonderful. It not only stimulates, but clears the sinuses and enhances regularity.

Stokey, you are crazy! LMAO :D



ETXHiker,

The first scope was a Simmons pistol scope...4x32 IIRC...after that I put a Weaver 4x32 and it was a real worker...that was as a pistol...that Weaver now resides on my 7-30 Waters...and still makes people smile when they shoot it...

Now that I have it set up as a carbine there is a Nikon Monarch 2x7 on it...works like a champ.

D

X-Rap
December 13, 2006, 11:03 AM
One of my sons has a guide with 4x Leupold compact that works good. I have the XS ghost ring on mine and would try the scout mount and scope if I were to go with glass.

starsandstriper
December 13, 2006, 11:27 PM
Im thinkin that any shotgun scope out there is made to withstand slug loads from most 20 and 12 gauges since they sure have no other reason to be on a shotgun. that might be a good low power scope fpr a 45-70.

torpid
December 13, 2006, 11:48 PM
...but I really do find the .45-70's recoil to be objectionable.

It definitely depends on the combination of the gun, the ammo, and the recoil pad (if any).

I have no problems with anything I've shot so far through my 1895g, but throw the shock of a really stout load through a gun with a metal buttplate into my shoulder and I bet I'd feel it a bit more... ;)

Gewehr98
December 14, 2006, 12:02 AM
The venerable .45-70 can go from mild to wild. The 500gr 1200fps blackpowder loads from my 32" Sharps are just plain fun, while 405gr 2100fps smokeless loads from my Ruger #1 or Siamese Mauser conversion make me call it quits after about 10 rounds. (I plan on only needing one of those rounds come dangerous game hunting time...) I'm 195 lbs, and 6', so I'm good with some amounts of recoil. However, a Russian M44 carbine in 7.62x54R is just plain too much recoil for me.

Lone_Gunman
December 14, 2006, 07:49 AM
If you can handle a 308, etc... you shouldn't have any problem with the 45-70. Throw on a decent recoil pad and you should be fine.

I disagree. I can shoot a 100+ rounds of 308 out of a FAL or bolt action rifle with no recoil pad and not be sore. 40 rounds of 45-70 out of a 10+ pound sharps rifle is too much.

I have never encountered a factory loaded 45-70 round that recoils as little as a 308.

bakert
December 14, 2006, 08:10 AM
I'm not into rifles much but have considered getting one of the Handi-Rifles my self. My only experience with the 45-70 was shooting the 405 gr factory loads in a friends original Trapdoor years ago. Don't remember the recoil being all that bad but to be honest I was a helluve lot younger and shooting skeet and trap quite a bit at the time plus shooting an '03 Springfield some too. Might be a bit harder on an old guy now.:uhoh:

db_tanker
December 14, 2006, 10:14 AM
Lone_Gunman,

Have you tried those PMC cowboy loads? I am telling you those are love-taps compared to everything else...

D

fitoo1
December 14, 2006, 05:05 PM
You may also try inserting a few periods into that super long sentence.


LOL...public education for you...

Ive youve ever shot 20 ga slugs out of a single shot shotgun...thats about how hard it kicks...i think.

gezzer
December 14, 2006, 08:08 PM
Buy a Past recoil Shield in 1/2" and any factory load will be a pussycat.
Reloading the Speer 400 grain to 1850 fps will be felt on the shoulder but will be manageable. However it will pull the forend from your supporting hand no matter how hard you try to hold it. At 1800 you will be able to hold it.

God love the Marlin 45/70!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

semper gumby
December 14, 2006, 08:13 PM
Just got a new guide gun and 2 boxes of Hornady Leverlution 325grain @ 2,050 fps.

Shot 10 rounds and it hurt me. Just replaced the stock recoil pad but have not shot it again. Here is an interesting article.

http://www.realguns.com/archives/036.htm
Real Guns - The Model 1895G - The boomer gets a scope

torpid
December 14, 2006, 10:34 PM
The part dealing with the Marlin "brick" pad ;) is here:

http://www.realguns.com/archives/052.htm

achildofthesky
December 14, 2006, 10:42 PM
Is relatively painless IMHO. It is a marlin with a 16" barrel and no porting but does have a decelerator pad on it. So far I have "only" shot the 325 gr leverevolution rounds through it. Kind of an authoritative shove it seems to me. I have not shot a marlin with a stock pad BTW. Hope this helps...

Patty

Lone_Gunman
December 14, 2006, 11:29 PM
Have you tried those PMC cowboy loads? I am telling you those are love-taps compared to everything else...


I have no doubt the 45-70 can be downloaded to the point that recoil would be neglible, but it really isn't a 45-70 anymore if you do that.

At what range do you shoot that load?

rockstar.esq
December 14, 2006, 11:56 PM
I'd be interested to hear comparisons to a .50 caliber black powder rifle. 80 Grains of triple seven behind a 300 grain copper jacketed slug to the .45-70.

As I've opined before, shooting my inline is more of a "deep tissue" sort of recoil. I can shoot it for hours on end but my shoulder hurts the next day. Seems like the real pain doesn't start for at least five hours and doesn't wear off for at least three days...

In any event I've an affection for the .45-70 as a long range round and as an all inclusive woods rifle caliber. From what I've read, the effects of handloading on straight walled rifle calibers are profoundly positive and exceedingly simple to learn.

Nematocyst
December 15, 2006, 04:27 AM
Read this thread (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=240342), also.

db_tanker
December 15, 2006, 06:52 AM
100 yards...But I have only shot one box through my TC. Out of my 16.25" bbl I had to have about a 1" high hold...at the time I was shooting it as a pistol and had it zero'd at 100 with a 350 gr. hornady RN at 1400 fps. My guess was it was plunking along at a bit less than 1200 or so...you could get a bit more range and velocity out of a Sharps, I am sure.

I really love the times when newbies come up and ask me questions about it and how old the cartridge is. :)


D

wanderinwalker
December 15, 2006, 09:51 AM
I'd be interested to hear comparisons to a .50 caliber black powder rifle. 80 Grains of triple seven behind a 300 grain copper jacketed slug to the .45-70.


90 or so grains of Goex in my Encore with a 250gr saboted bullet kicks worse than the .45-70. Or close to. Maybe it's just the flash and blast. (If you've never tried Real Black Powder, you owe it to yourself. It's rather entertaining for a few shots! ;) ) My Encore is a 20" Katahdin, and the .45-70 is the ubiquitous Marlin 1895 Guide Gun, both unported.

Shoot Pyrodex and the kick goes down. The muzzleloader seems like you can shoot about as long without recoil effects. Difference is, my shoulder usually gets like a 2-3 minute break between shots with the muzzleloader!

USBP 1969
January 19, 2007, 10:14 PM
My hat is off to those who took the time to answer the thread originator’s question.

To those who commented on punctuation and literacy all I can say is: "I am truly amazed."

Kent

Gator
January 19, 2007, 11:00 PM
I really don't think you will have any problem with factory 405 gr loads. I shoot them in my TC Contender handgun; they are pretty mild.

tbtrout
January 19, 2007, 11:49 PM
My Encore is 45 70 and is fun to shoot with handloads. Beware of the Federal loads with the 300gr Sierra hp. When I first started shooting it before reloading the guy at the gun shop found out I was using the Encore and smirked when he handed me the box. Told me only to use them in Encores an Ruger # 1's. I am no whimp but after a box of these I am done.

106rr
January 20, 2007, 03:07 AM
You may be uncomfortable with a 45-70 in that lightweight little single shot. If it has a plastic buttplate you most certainly will be uncomfortable.
I am shooting an 1895. This is not the guide gun but has a pistol grip stock and a 22" barrel. I had to install a Limbsaver recoil pad. After firing the 405 Remingtom load there was no problem with recoil in my 1895. When I went to the more powerful loads it was clear that I was over my head. Please note that I am not firing Buffalo Bore but 300gr Winchester and warm PMC loads.

THE DRILL INSTRUCTOR
January 20, 2007, 06:04 AM
See, now you just have to get a .45-70 revolver to go with your rifle.

Just kidding. I compare my 1895 to a twelve-gauge with light loads; but I'd warrant caution the first time you take it to the range. I actually cut my shoulder with the buttplate because I wasn't holding it tight:cuss:, but thats my fault.


BTW, did anyone know they actually make a .45-70+P!!!

AK103K
January 20, 2007, 07:19 AM
You may be uncomfortable with a 45-70 in that lightweight little single shot. If it has a plastic buttplate you most certainly will be uncomfortable.
I assume your referring to the Ruger #3 here. My dad has one in 45-70 and its one of the few rifles I dont like shooting. If you havent seen or shot one, picture a rifle about the same size as a 10-22, with the same stock, in 45-70. :)

66912
January 20, 2007, 09:59 AM
I am 5'4" on a good day and weigh in at 150 lbs. After five rounds out of my M-44, My NEF 45-70 feels much better. Get both and you will not mind the 45-70 at all!

Ranger J
January 20, 2007, 11:27 AM
If you are shooting a Handi Rifle one trick is to take the recoil pad off and fill the bolthole with #2 shot. This makes mine very shootable even with Marlin loads. While some people do shoot the Handi at level three the company does not recommend it. Also a quality recoil pad is highly recommended. When I shoot my 1895 Marlin I always use a Shooter’s Friend slip on pad. Again I have no problem shooting level 2 loads in either gun and I am a wimp when it comes to recoil. The recoil in either gun is nowhere close to the recoil of my 12G-slug gun.
RJ

44AMP
January 20, 2007, 08:02 PM
You haven't experienced recoil until you shoot a 350gr @ 2200fps out of a Runger No. 3. That's recoil!

jcord
January 21, 2007, 09:23 AM
I have the guide gun nonported is is completely stock.

I would compare the recoil to a 20 guage with a heavy game load or a slug.

Different guns and loads recoil differently. My first load I purchased when I brought the gun home was a box of Remington 300 grain JHP. It is a mild trap door springfield load and actually kicked less than my Win 94 trapper in 30-30.

I was fooled into thinking the 45-70 was a pussycat. I went out and purchased reloading supplies and loaded some speer 400 grain soft points to max for the marlin.

I was surprized by the first shot and it rung my bell. I use mine for deer season and do not need max loads to anchor a buck. I am experimenting
with lighter loads and saving the bear loads for bear hunters.

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