[Turk]

At our local conservation club there has been some complaints of people using worked over shotguns to win. My question is exactly what can be done (cheat) to a barrel to make it shoot a tighter group of shot? I’m aware of lining and swaging the barrel. Also what is your suggestions as what can be done to stop this kind of shooter? My first thought is a bore gauge and check all guns being used. Thanks for your help

Turk

[Waywatcher]

I don't get it. People modify their guns to be more effective and this is bad how? :confused:

[Rabid Rabbit]

What rules are you using? What type of shooting are you doing? I'm guessing a turkey shoot.

Normally when I hear complaints like that its from people that are not putting the time and money it takes to win, their priorities are elsewhere, which isn't good or bad, but just don't whine about it. I shoot IPSC, IDPA and sporting clays, I don't win and don't expect to win because I don't put the time and money in that it takes to win. But I have a good time, get better every time and don't worry about the win/lose thing.

[PJR]

If I were serious about turkey shooting I'd find the most scabrous looking single shot gun I could find with a long fixed full choke barrel. I'd have the action tightened and the stock fitted then I'd find out what load was being used for the shoots. I'd then have the barrel modified to shoot that load by having the forcing cones lengthened, the barrel back bored and polished with a long tapered fixed choke that was as at least Extra Full.

Now anyone with the right gauge could probably determine this work was done but there is so much variance among shotgun barrels when it comes to bores, chokes and forcing cone lengths that setting acceptable standards would be a challenge. The disputes over which guns are modified, which aren't (sometimes it's tough to tell) and which modifications are acceptable would mean less shooting and a lot more arguments before the shoot begins.

My advice to the whiners is to suck it up. People are looking for a competitive edge. Either accept it and if you can't beat them, join them.

[Jim Watson]

If this is a serious problem, the only way to prevent people tuning their guns to perform well in competition is to issue guns and ammunition on the firing line. What do you think your attendance would be if they had to share the same gun?

How about a challenge match? For a little extra entry fee, anybody can shoot anybody else's gun. Presented as a fun thing instead of a nasty "stop the cheaters" attitude, it could enhance the event.

[Hawk]

I'm not familiar with that type of shooting, but PJR's surmise sounds right.

A competition gun is going to show up with lengthened forcing cones, back bored, overbored and what-all-else-bored. If a 40 year old (scabrous?) single shot showed up with a similar barrel it's unclear how money spent to get it that way would differ from money spent to buy a gun so equipped from the factory.

[PJR]

scab·rous –adjective
1. having a rough surface because of minute points or projections.
2. indecent or scandalous; risqué; obscene: scabrous books.
3. full of difficulties.

[SShooterZ]

Maybe practice more and beat him anyway... :evil:

Honestly, I don't see a problem with a "modified" barrel or gun. Hell, many models and makes are more "modified" from the factory over others.

[RKellogg]

Are there any gun rules for shooting skeet , trap or sporting clays . Or is it just club rules .
I just started shooting skeet this year and was thinking about what I could do to my gun to do better .

[Turk]

Guys,

Thanks for the input. My brother in law mentioned this to me concerning the club we belong to. It is a turkey shoot and I'll have to ask him what are the club rules I would think it probably relates to choke dia. If your rule only allows the industry standard for choke size min/max then a very tight choke would not be allowed. I don't have problems improving guns my Springfield Armory M1A SuperMatch is just such a rifle but when shooting highpower service rifle matches rules state there are only certain improvements that can be done and still keep it legal relating to the standard M-14 service rifle. Years ago I cut a long forcing cone in my A-5 for waterfowling and it did tighten up the pattern.
I guess having different classes such as standard and open would help the problem. The main thing here for the club it if people stop attending because they don't have a razzle dazzle super shotgun then revenue is lost for the club which relates to keeping the operation running. I don't shoot the turkey shoots myself but the fact is the shotgun is rested and if you do some basic marksmanship principals it's all in the gun and a little luck as to how close the pellet is to the center X.

Thanks
Turk

[kudu]

Are there any gun rules for shooting skeet , trap or sporting clays . Or is it just club rules .

For the most part there are no rules concerning gun improvements. Shells are limited to the amout of shot they hold. 12ga= 1 1/8oz, 20ga= 7/8oz, 28ga= 3/4oz, .410ga= 1/2oz. I believe there are barrel length restrictions in trap, but don't know for sure what they are.

[kentucky_smith]

One standard way of measuring shotgun choke is by shooting it and seeing what percentage of #6 shot it puts into a 40-inch circle at 100 feet. A barrel choked "Full" will put 70% into a 40-inch circle; one choked "Modified", 60%; and one "Improved Cylinder", 50%. Recently, some "Extra-Full" choked barrels have been made available that can put upwards of 80% into a 40-inch circle. But what do you call a barrel that can put 98-99 % of the shot into a a 40-inch circle, and 95% into a 12-inch circle? We call them "Card-busters".

These special barrels are chamber cut to the tightest tolerences and are designed to produce the closest possible pattern at 100 feet. We typically make them for 2.75-inch shells but can make them for 3-inch if needed. They can be used with any lead shot; the size and kind doesn't seem to matter. (They aren't suitable for steel shot but can be used with bismuth shot for things like goose hunting.) They've proved to be consistent winners in turkey shoots ... and of course are also quite suitable for turkey hunting.


Could this be it? http://www.billsaccuracy.com/shotguns.htm

[Dave McCracken]

Each turkey shoot tends to be a law unto itself as to what is legal and what is not.

Long ago, a shoot nearby had a rule that no barrel should be choked so tightly that a dime would not pass through. Some Model 12s were thus knocked out off contention. Later, the same club ran two classes, stock and unlimited. Stock meant that, unlimited meant anything. I recall some SBTs with honed bores and chokes from those days.

If I were building a card gun these days I'd start with a scabrous single shot and do it like Paul wrote with a very long cone, overbore and tight choke with a long taper.

Or screw in a 40 POC choke into Number 6 and do it for fun.

[Alvin in AZ]

Looking at "Bill's" table my junky old JCHiggins model 20 from the early 50's with a fixed modified choke shoots #4 shot into a 22" circle at 35 paces (about 100 feet) Bill-sez;) to use #6.

My loads are about 1300 fps and are about 1+1/10 oz of #4 shot. (Lee-LoadAll;)

That 22" diameter pattern has a dense-center and thin fringe too so will put that shot into a pretty small spot. Shoots a little high and to the left... but working on it. :)

When I bought the gun I was thrilled, it was one dirty sucker inside :) looked to have been shot and handled -alot- but never taken apart before not even cleaned. :) $140

Alvin in AZ
ps- still working on it, nothing new to report just yet ;)