Noticed damage to hook edge of extractor. Problem?


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The Real Hawkeye
December 14, 2006, 11:10 PM
Today I did a total strip of my 1911 for thorough cleaning and lube. Noticed the edge of the extractor hook looked rough. Felt it, and it did not feel even. Used magnifier, and it is clearly rough and not a straight edge. Is this a problem? Do I need a new extractor already, after only a few thousand rounds? Had a couple of stove pipes last time out, but I had attributed that to the gun not having been cleaned or lubed in over three hundred rounds. Could this be the culprit?

PS No, before you ask, I never feed a round into the chamber in any other way than from the magazine.

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1911Tuner
December 14, 2006, 11:21 PM
Hawk said:

>PS No, before you ask, I never feed a round into the chamber in any other way than from the magazine.<
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Doesn't mean that it's not happening anyway. What kind of magazines are you using?

The Real Hawkeye
December 14, 2006, 11:24 PM
Doesn't mean that it's not happening anyway. What kind of magazines are you using?Ed Brown mags. It's an Ed Brown Kobra Carry.

1911Tuner
December 14, 2006, 11:33 PM
8-round magazines? Smooth-topped followers?

The Real Hawkeye
December 14, 2006, 11:35 PM
round top followers. I assume it's 7 rounds, but it doesn't say round count on it.

1911Tuner
December 14, 2006, 11:40 PM
Probably a Metalform skirted/round follower...smooth-topped. The gun is push-feeding on the last round and damaging the extractor. Lemme go try to find a link that explains what's happening.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=108838

It's either that, or the nose of the extractor is hitting the barrel. Look for a ding on the right slide of the barrel throat...but since it's damaging the claw, my bet is on the push-feed.

Luck to ya!

The Real Hawkeye
December 15, 2006, 12:04 AM
Thanks Tuner. That makes sense. So, if I switch to the traditional mag design the problem should not repeat? What about the banged up hook edge. Do I need to replace the extractor?

1911Tuner
December 15, 2006, 12:31 AM
Since you've had a few ejection failures...stovepipes...it might not be a bad idea, even though they probably weren't caused by the rough edge.

The mag spring also needs to be up to par. I strongly recommend the Wolff 11-pound springs with traditional 7-round followers. The +5% springs are designed for the folded Devel 8-round followers, and while they provide a little more tension, they don't keep the 7-round follower stabilized as well as it should be.

Metalform will sell the standard followers as components. The Brown magazines were probably made by Metalform, and likely made to work with the proprietary follower...and may not be optimum for use with the standard follower...specifically in locking the slide on empty.

You can check for it. Load one round and look at the front of the magazine even with the top of the follower. It should have a very slight concave shape just at, or just slightly above the top edge of the follower. If it's not there,
the standard follower may "walk" to the right when the shelf engages the slidestop lug, and ride over it. While it's possible to put that inward curve into the magazine, it's easy to screw it up if you're not careful.

If you want to try, load one round into the mag, and use a slot-tipped screwdriver to put a very light indent at the bottom of the case's tangent...and I mean very light. All you want to do is put a slight curve in the mag body a bit above the top edge of the follower to cause it to be pushed into the slidestop lug as it engages. If the lug is correctly angled at the bottom edge, it should pull the locking shelf to the left and into it. Every Brown slidstop that I've seen does have the angled lug. Assuming that the follower shelf is also within spec, it'll be captive and engage positively.

Spartacus451
December 15, 2006, 10:29 AM
I am looking to purchase some 7 rounders from metalform at a decent price. I can get a good price from Brownells with my C&R FFL.
http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=9210&title=1911+AUTO+MAGAZINES

620-045-002 .45 Govt/Comm S/S 7 Rd. Round Follower w/Welded Base $18.80
620-045-083 .45 Govt/Comm Blue 8 Rd. Flat Follower w/Welded Base $11.84
620-045-001 .45 Govt/Comm Blue 7 Rd. Round Follower w/Welded Base $12.19

The problem is that both 7 rounders come with the round follower and they don't sell the flat follower separately, the flat followers bought direct from Metalform are too expensive for me.. Are the round ones any good? It seems to me that the depression should function like the dimple and prevent the round from releasing to early. What about blue vs. stainless steel? I don't have corrosion issues and the blue is significantly cheaper. The 8-rounder could probably be converted to a 7 rounder with a spring change and still retain the flat follower (I assume with dimple).

1911Tuner
December 15, 2006, 11:25 AM
Quote:

>Are the round ones any good? It seems to me that the depression should function like the dimple and prevent the round from releasing to early.<
***************

I tried 10 of the Metalform magazines with their rounded followers, and found them to be lacking. For one thing, they won't accept the standard Wolff 11-pound springs and still allow 7 rounds in the mag, and they didn't adequately control the last round with the OEM springs. I had a few incidences of the
last round jumping the followers, locking the slide with the round loose in the port, plus the occasional bolt-over base misfeed unless I dropped to 14-pound recoil springs in the 5-inch guns. Performance in my Commanders was dismal. All guns tested are flawless with standard 7-round magazines with Wolff springs.

On a side-note, I recently aquired a small lot of new GI contract magazines. (Cage code: Checkmate Industries). Doing a side-by-side "feel" test with the springs indicated little, if any difference between the original, unused springs and lightly used Wolff 11-pound springs. Seems that Wolff engineered the springs to approximate the proper spec tension after taking an initial set. Interesting...

Jim Watson
December 15, 2006, 11:49 AM
Dang, I thought I had myself an invention.
I lightly crimped some McCormick Power Mags to hold the butterfly follower to the left against the slide stop. They worked out of the box on two out of three guns but would snap over the slide stop of the third. So I bent them enough to correct that.
Now you say it is routine. Dang.

1911Tuner
December 15, 2006, 12:43 PM
Jim wrote:

>Dang, I thought I had myself an invention...

Now you say it is routine. Dang...<
************************

Yep. Ain't much that ol' John Mose didn't already think of about a hunnert years ago. ;)

On the other hand...it shows that you're in tune with his thought process...and that's a major compliment. :cool:

Kudos, sir!

The Real Hawkeye
December 15, 2006, 08:30 PM
Tuner, do you feel the same way about Wilson Combat magazines, which also have an unconventional follower?

1911Tuner
December 15, 2006, 08:46 PM
Sure do. I believe that the early 7-round 47s had a ball bearing in the top of the follower. It was in the wrong place,(Too far rearward) but still better than nothing. Note that as the power level of the ammo goes down...i.e target wadcutters...that positive last round control becomes less critical due to the reduced inertial forces that are acting on the gun. If you'll study the dimple a little, you'll notice that its location coincides closely with the magazine's release point. In law enforcement circles, that there's known as a clew!:cool:

Sufficient spring tension is also a factor, and if the spring is up to the job, the dimple becomes less critical, though it doesn't negate its importance entirely. The dimple's primary job is to act as a backup for when the spring gets a little tired, to insure control of the last round. Another redundancy that Browning was so well-known for.

Off-topic point...The extractor itself is nearly redundant. If the gun is timed just so, and the ammunition is correctly within design spec, it'll run surprisingly well without it, though ejection will a bit erratic.

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