First time I had to reach for gun


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Jesse H
January 6, 2003, 12:46 AM
Somewhat hard to explain, but I was in my car and the other guy was in his truck. I have my sister and the man in his truck has another male passenger. I was sitting in the median to make a turn and instead of arranging his truck so that we can both see oncoming traffic to make our respective turns, he puts his truck right in front of my car so neither one of us can see oncoming traffic.

At this point we are facing each other, traffic whizzing by us on both sides (somewhat of a highway), and both of us are unable to see or turn into traffic since he put his truck a few feet from my car. There is a line of cars behind me. No line behind him, he was actually supposed to wait for our line to disappear before making his dash for the median. Somewhat hard to explain.

I motion that he needs to back up since nobody can get anywhere with him there. Instead he pulls closer to my front bumper. This irritates me and (in hindsight a dumb move) I turn the car off and toss my keys on the dash to let him know I can't and am not budging.

He see's this and moves the truck EVEN closer and unbuckles his seatbelt, opens the door and steps halfway out the truck. My alrams are ringing, I lock the doors (doors automatically unlock when ignition was turned off), unbuckle my seatbelt, and move hand under my shirt and grip my pistol. Entire time the gun is covered, but he sees my motions. This stopped him in his tracks, as he slowly gets back in his truck and when traffic clears up he backs up and merges into traffic; getting as close to my car as possible. Right hand on gun, eyes glued on him the entire time.

I didn't plan on drawing, but wanted to be prepared for the worst. I was thinking, dammit, if this fool does something really stupid he's gonna get himself hurt, I'm gonna put some serious damage on my car, but I really really don't want to shoot anybody today.

My heart was beating a 100mph and I was so glad he went back in his truck. I don't know what else I could've done. If there weren't any cars behind me, I would've reluctantly let him by. I felt very trapped for that tense minute, but I was just glad I got to go home.

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sm
January 6, 2003, 12:58 AM
You made it home, you survived--That is the goal.
No damage to vehicle another plus. If I understand the road design and you turned first-then he turned wide(drunk, high, irritated who knows)and you couldn't back up for safety reasons --sounds as if you did the right thing. Condition orange, stayed polite ready to go red--but didn't.

PATH
January 6, 2003, 01:05 AM
No harm. No foul. I am glad everything worked out.

mjustice
January 6, 2003, 01:09 AM
You did good. Always hope for the best, and prepare for the worst. Maybe he had a moment of clarity when he noticed you reaching under your shirt.

MJ

Seeker
January 6, 2003, 01:16 AM
I turn the car off and toss my keys on the dash to let him know I can't and am not budging. Yep, dumb move. You antagonized the other guy and made yuour escape much more difficult - for what? If things had gone south and you bought your piece into play, I imagine it would have been hard to explain in court why turned of the car and removed the keys from ignition while in traffic - it may even be seen as excalating the situation.

I suspect that with a little patience this situtation would have resolved itself.

Blackhawk
January 6, 2003, 01:45 AM
Jesse, I agree with Seeker that you may have inadvertently escalated the situation, but I also agree with mjustice that you did good.

The jerk should have easily seen that you couldn't go anywhere.

I presume this took place in a left turn only lane that works for both directions of traffic?

Jesse H
January 6, 2003, 02:15 AM
Agreed about my bonehead move. I've always known that being a responsible citizen that carries, you have to be a bit smarter. Learned my lesson. Also proves that we're not a bunch of crazy trigger happy loons just wanting to get into a shootout, it was the last thing I wanted to do (had a 4 week old puppy and my favorite and only sister in the car).

Whipped up a crude drawing, but hopefully it helps clear things up. Basically, it's an open 6 lane highway and I moved over to the middle lane, waiting for traffic to clear before I can turn into 'A.' Guy in truck came from 'B' and stopped in front of me.

Jesse H
January 6, 2003, 02:17 AM
I'm the green blob, truck is the blue blob.

pax
January 6, 2003, 03:27 AM
He probably truly did not realize that you could not see around his truck. I drive a van and it is easy for me to forget, from my vantage point yards above the other vehicles on the road, that I block the view of other people.

You should not have shut off your car and tossed the keys on the dash, but it sounds as though you learned your lesson there. We all do things like that sometimes...

Overall, once it was obvious what was happening, you did very well -- kept your cool, stayed alert, locked doors, and gave the guy an opportunity to back down and go away.

Most important, you walked away unscathed and so did he.

pax

If the whole human race lay in one grave, the epitaph on its headstone might well be: 'It seemed a good idea at the time.' -- Dame Rebecca West

treeprof
January 6, 2003, 10:16 AM
When my wife got a new car some years ago, the first thing she asked me to do was fix it so the door locks didn't automatically unlock. Fortunately, it was simple matter of pulling a fuse at that time (on a GM). I think it's a stupid "feature", as not everyone will have the presence of mind you did to relock them, or perhaps even the opportunity to do so. Glad things ended ok.

No4Mk1
January 6, 2003, 10:57 AM
Jesse,

Glad to see you over here, and glad this turned out OK. One of my pet peves is when people use the "turning lane" as a "merging lane", as appears to have been the case here. Glad you kept a level head, and got out of this OK. I don't have enought shooting buddies to go losing them in road-rage gunfights! ;)

Sounds like all ended up well, and you learned the right lesson from it.

Get in touch some time and we'll go shooting. I think I'm open this weekend and I would love to show you my new SKS.

Lee.

El Rojo
January 6, 2003, 11:09 AM
Sounds like he might have had the "big truck, little package" syndrome. He was obviously being an arse by getting closer and closer to your vehicle. Glad you learned not to turn off the car from now on. He learned not to be an arse or he might get shot from now on. I think both lessons were pretty good, his possibly being more effective.

Dave P
January 6, 2003, 04:24 PM
Why do ya think we call em "suicide lanes"? Whether used for turning or merging, they are extremely dangerous! My only accident in last 20 yrs was in one (which I was somewhat at fault for).

Jesse, sounds like you did alright - a learning lesson for all!

PS How bout those silly cars/trucks that adjomatticly LOCK the doors as you start the the thing moving? Maybe I wanna throw some trash out the door, or let a horsefly out? Don't the humans get to vote anymore on these designs :fire:

Carlos Cabeza
January 6, 2003, 04:51 PM
On contrare, sounds like big gun, little man syndrome. The gun don't make the man....................................:rolleyes: Its the other way around ! When I FINALLY recieved my CCW I was and continue to be more polite and forgiving of some @$$HOLE WITH AN ATTITUDE. Its just not worth it ! Go ahead and let the jerk think he won or MAYBE he might feel a bit remorse later. Don't mean to sound trite, but the traffic in H-town is known to be pretty bad. Before we get to slingin' poo, I used to live in Sugarland and have family that still lives there. Glad the encounter didn't get ugly..................

Jesse H
January 6, 2003, 05:08 PM
Carlos, thanks for the reply, but I hope you're not implying I held my ground because I was carrying.

Trust me, I don't go around everyday with this pistol and spare mag on my hip thinking that I'm tougher than the times I'm without it. I am the same person with or without the pistol, just like I don't engage in life threatening behaviour because I have life insurance.

In my younger and dumber days (pre CHL), instead of locking the door and holding a defensive position, I would've gotten out the car and confronted the man in his face despite my small 5'8" 145lb frame. I had a temper problem and some of my close friends and family worried about me CHL-ing in the beginning.

Nowadays I act in the same calm and nonchalant manner whether or not (rare) I'm carrying. I've realized that many things are just not worth it, I just need to realize that other fools out there may not feel the same way.

Regards

Carlos Cabeza
January 6, 2003, 05:26 PM
No disrespect intended, only that you have carefully considered all that had presented itself that day. The thing with the keys would have most certainly been considered escalation of force. People have bad days (more in h-town traffic) and people aren't very nice sometimes (especially in h-town traffic). you didn't hold your ground, you couldn't move because of the cars behind you. I don't think a dispute over a traffic incident would be the place you should want or try to defend your CHL status. Other than my dissection of "your" encounter I think you did OK. I cannot say for sure that I would have behaved any differently.

Carlos Cabeza
January 6, 2003, 05:37 PM
Originally posted by Seeker::::::

I suspect that with a little patience this situtation would have resolved itself.

And that is what probably happened. I have had someone sitting in an adjacent lane point a GLOCK at my head over a lane change that I wasn't paying attention to. Clearly MY FAULT but DAMN ! Ever try to drive 40 mph IN THE FLOORBOARD !!!


:eek:

Psssniper
January 6, 2003, 09:46 PM
I gotta go with Carlos and Seeker on this, no disrespect intended but you acted immaturely and escalated the situation. In this sceanario I would have simply smiled and waited it out. Letting anger, frustration,or whatever emotion control your actions and reactions is not a good idea.
Glad it turned out and hope we all can learn a lesson from this. thanks for sharing it with the brethern.

Diesle
January 6, 2003, 10:39 PM
Shutting the car down isnt very tactical in my book...

Diesle

Thumper
January 6, 2003, 11:53 PM
Jesse, I'm crushed that you didn't call me...:D

Skunkabilly
January 7, 2003, 03:23 PM
Glad you're safe!

I didn't know they let Chinamen into UT! ;)

incursion
January 10, 2003, 09:14 PM
Jesse, you go to UT Austin? We should hook up for some shooting.

12.7x99mm
January 10, 2003, 10:46 PM
I had this same thing or a similar thing happen to me a few weeks back. Idot drivers with no commen since. I really think that most people that go out in the morning to work dont have clue one on many people are armed around them. Its best to be polite and not cause any problems because you just dont know.

Sure you or I might be a big guy in big SUV or a truck but I have friends that I shoot with that are instructors and military that look and drive cars that you might think other wise on. And these people will hurt you if mess with them. In a bad way.

Its best to respect people and be nice

4v50 Gary
January 10, 2003, 11:12 PM
JesseH - the important thing is that you're OK as well as well as your sister. Same for the truck driver. Now, it's also important that you've learned from this experience - which you did. What you've just attained is wisdom. It comes not from books but from experience.

A safe journey, always.

Walther P99
January 10, 2003, 11:18 PM
CHL holders (any concealed carry licensees) are held to a 'Higher Standard of Care' which basically says that you're the only person who knows you're armed, therefore, you have to do as much as you can to avoid escalating an argument or potential argument.

The good thing is that it didn't get to the point of having to use your weapon.

Skunkabilly
January 11, 2003, 04:09 AM
How old's your sister, and does she shoot? :D

Pendragon
January 11, 2003, 04:21 AM
Well, I disagree with most of the people here.

If you could not see around the truck, it was unsafe for you to move until he moved. That he did not get that is not your fault.

One of the worst things you can do is make a move in traffic due to social pressure when it is not safe.

Honestly, staying in your car and turning it off and tossing your keys on the dash as "an escalation of force" - that is patently ridiculous.

You should have stayed there for two hours if thats how long it took to avoid pulling out blindly into traffic.

That the idiot in the truck didnt like it is not your fault. Also - I think you would have been completely justified to draw on him had he gotten too close - that is just unnecessary on his part and he should have been able to back up and should have known that you could not.

Luckily, as is often the case, he wondered enough about your armed status to come to his senses before he did anything dumber.

Matt G
January 11, 2003, 06:43 AM
It actually doesn't look that bad, and looking at the diagram, I can see how you felt like you were not in a good situation. We all agree the key thing wasn't really productive, but I can't much fault the rest.

One thing, though, y'all-- Puh-LEASE don't get involved in a shoot, righteous or not, that the newsies can call "pursuant to a road rage incident..." These make my stomach churn.

Y'know, I mean, while you're picking your gunfights, and everything... ;) :D ;)

1goodshot
January 11, 2003, 09:49 AM
In Az its a violation to use the center turn lane as a merging lane but people do it all the time. really pisses me off when they do it,I cant make my left hand turn until they get out of in front of me. Sounds like you did the right thing.

hso
January 11, 2003, 10:16 AM
This occured during my first marriage. As my wife's mother had this great big rambling house she had asked us to move back in after her youngest daughter had moved in with me. Considering that my then mother-in-law was one of the greatest people I had ever met and we would be on the opposite wing of the house and we were both in college, I considered the positives far outweighing the negatives.

A unique nature of the family, 4 adult sons and 3 adult daughters, was the different relationships. The oldest son was a former Marine, fellow gun enthusiast, and a lawyer. He and I had talked guns and he was glad that someone was at the house that he believed would "look out for Mother". Some treated their mother's house as the home of another person and respected all the protocols and some treated it as a completely open house with no part anyone's particular turf.

While I was studying alone one night that nearly got one of them shot! I heard a door on the other wing close and knew that my wife and her mother were not expected home for a couple of hours but nothing prevented them from coming back early so I went back to studying at the desk. Shortly after that I heard footsteps coming up the steps through the solarium and realized that they were not my wife's or her mother's. I pulled a Browning patented Colt .32 from the desk drawer and put the magazine in and chambered a round and waited. The sound of the person moved not to the great room but into the hallway of our wing and I lifted the gun and sighted it on the door. The door opened and without announcement the one person that should have known better, the oldest brother, walked into the room. I identified him instantly and moved the gun to the open desk drawer while calling out his name in a very exasperated and nervous tone. He looked at me, noticed me removing the magazine and emptying the chamber, and just nodded. He grinned and said that lucky for him I hadn't shot him. I told him that it wasn't luck and that dead, not shot, would have been the result if it hadn't been him.

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