Taurus 4410 45LC/.410 revolver for home defense?


December 15, 2006, 03:47 PM
I am about to buy my first handgun. All my life I've owned a few guns, a BB gun when I was a kid, a .22LR rifle, a 20 guage shotgun, and a 12 guage shotgun.

I keep a 12 guage pump ready to go, near my bed. I would like to get a pistol though. I came across the Taurus 4410 series revolvers that are chambered for 45 Long Colts and .410 2.5" long shotgun shells. To me, it seems like the 4410, loaded with the .410 shotgun shells would be great for home defense. It may be better than my LONG 12 guage.

Am I wrong? Would a .410 shell from this pistol have enough stopping power, assuming that most of the shot from the shell hits the attacker? I would probably get the 4410 with the 4" barrel. So, the pattern would be nice and wide.

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December 15, 2006, 03:56 PM
If I had one, I'd put .45 Colt ammo in it. I'm not real impressed with a .33 caliber round ball at the pitiful velocities that revolver is going to launch it. I'd rather have a .32 Auto, myself. There's what, three balls in a .410 2.5"???

I'll stick what what I've got, thanks.

December 15, 2006, 05:17 PM
It would be interesting to see the muzzle velocity of those OOO buckshot. Lacking that information, I would stick with .45 Colt as well. It would make a dandy snake gun if loaded with small shot though.

El Tejon
December 15, 2006, 05:31 PM
I really want one of these guns, "just for fun" gun.:)

Anywho, in addressing your questions,

A) .410 birdshot would sting a bunch. Not feel good, but lethal? Depends on range. Don't care if it is lethal I just want threat to stop.

B) .410 slugs, work great out of a long tube of a shotgun. My second murder case was with a .410 slug. Broke into three piece as it entered the chest and sternum and wiped out victim's heart. Don't know about pistol, maybe if close.

C) Patterns inside your house are going to be nice and tight. Measure longest shot in your sleeping chamber. It will likely be close, and then shoot that distance at the range.

Taurus 4410 looks like a "blast" to shoot.:D Now if I could just find one.

However, I would be hesitant to rely on one for self-defense, just my $.02.

December 15, 2006, 05:43 PM
I found the below info on another forum. http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2122051&postcount=4

"I just purchased it a few days ago and have only shot it 10 times. I used some # 4 shot at 5 yards away and made a pattern the size of a paper plate. I don't know if you can shoot slugs through it. Maybe rifled slug,s will have to check into it. I was not on the market for this type of revolver but $350 was a good price for almost brand new revolver and I have never owned a 45 colt either."

December 15, 2006, 05:49 PM

Jim K
December 15, 2006, 06:45 PM
Well, a rifled slug out of a .410 would not be any better (and would likely be worse power-wise) than a .45 bullet. Any advantage the .410 would have would be in a shot spread. While an 8" spread with that small amount of shot would be dangerous, I doubt it would stop a determined attacker.

A rough measurement of spread from a regular shotgun is 1" at 1 yard (1" added to the bore diameter), so across a 24' room, the spread is only 8", hardly the "cloud of shot" or "a blast that can't miss" as it has been described.

The spread from a pistol probably would be greater, but even spread of a foot or more doesn't mean "you can't miss", and both the number of pellets and the velocity would be reduced to the point that, IMHO, the .410 pistol would be about useless.

The only advantage is that the small charge would be less likely to overpenetrate and do harm you don't want to do.


December 16, 2006, 03:02 AM

Odd concept....
Unusual aesthetics....

Guess I'm about to finally take the plunge on a Taurus.

What barrel length would be the best compromise? Do you guys think the 6.5" barrel would cause the shot pattern to spread excessively?



December 16, 2006, 10:07 AM
Selfdfenz... Did you go to that GunWeek article? The version they reviewed was with the 2" barrel instead of the 6" barrel, but he did give shot pattern measurements at various distances. I don't know HOW MUCH smaller the pattern would be with the 6", but it would have to be tighter.

December 16, 2006, 10:15 AM
Sure did. I guess I incorrectly assumed longer barrel = more spin of the shot cup = more open pattern.

I've about decided the short barrel is the one to get:)


December 16, 2006, 10:59 AM
Don't take my advice! Please don't! I'm too new to this to KNOW what I'm talking about. It makes sense to me that I'm right, but I HAVE been wrong before! :)

December 16, 2006, 11:23 AM
Taurus 4410 with 2" barrel .410 shotshell pattern info from the GunWeek review:

Shell.........Distance (yards).......Pattern (inches)
7 shot................1............................6
7 shot................4...........................10
7 shot................7...........................15
7 shot...............10..........................20

Cousin Mike
December 16, 2006, 11:24 AM
All of the TV commercials I've seen for the Taurus 4410 advertise it as some sort of anti-carjacker device. It leaves a very impressive shot pattern at point blank range, and I think that's where it would shine. Outside of the car, I'd probably just keep .45LC in it.

December 16, 2006, 02:57 PM
Since I reload 45 Colt for two units already that part of the 4410 package makes it very attractive.
Anti-carjacking tool :) oh yeah. I can sure believe it.


El Tejon
December 16, 2006, 05:42 PM
TELEVISION COMMERCIALS FOR GUNS?!?! Oh, wow, very cool.:cool:

Where? Are they on YouTube???

December 16, 2006, 07:41 PM
I'd like to have one, but I wouldn't trust a .410 for self defense.

December 16, 2006, 10:25 PM
Fella I talked to said that using buck shot, it strings the 3 pellets upward as recoil is taking effect. So you get 3 .30 cal hits per one shot if you hit center mass. Not too bad in my book.

December 16, 2006, 10:54 PM
Personal Defense TV (on the Outdoors Channel) had a segment on them. I think it was in the first episode. The show starts reruns pretty soon. You might want to watch for it.

Cousin Mike
December 16, 2006, 11:51 PM
Yep, TV commercials for GUNS! :D I couldn't believe it myself. On The Outdoor Network, and Versus channels they play the shows like PDTV, Shooting USA, World of Beretta, etc.

On the commercial breaks, they almost exclusively show gun commercials. Taurus' commercial for the 4410 (they call it "The Judge"... hehe) shows you exactly how the shot patterns... From your driver's seat to the passenger window, using the .410 shotshells, the 4410 completely FILLS a lifesized human-torso target with shot pellets... We're talking from neck to navel, here. It looks SUPER effective. I personally don't see how it wouldn't kill someone at that range. I've been trying to find that commercial all day so I could post it here! No luck so far - not even on Youtube.

You'll have to let me know how you like yours, El T! I'm definitely considering one for myself.

December 17, 2006, 11:35 AM
From your driver's seat to the passenger window, using the .410 shotshells, the 4410 completely FILLS a lifesized human-torso target with shot pellets.

I can reach over and roll up the window from the driver's seat in my wife's Toyota Echo.:what: You must be talking huge gas guzzler here, 4 wheel tank, 10 mpg on a good day Suburban, maybe? I do have a full sized van, but I think I'll stick to my .38 and 9mm. I might get in a gun fight at 7 yards or something and need the range. :rolleyes:

Cousin Mike
December 17, 2006, 12:11 PM
You got cable? Outdoor network? Versus channel? :D

Watch it for yourself, MCgunner. Why would I lie about a TV commercial? :rolleyes:

December 17, 2006, 12:12 PM
As an ant-carjacking tool? I would think that at less than arm's length you should be able to put a .45 JHP into the BG's vitals no problem...I would rather have a high performance JHP do it's thing than non-expanding buckshot.

Either way, I think you'll get the job done.

December 17, 2006, 12:32 PM
Watch it for yourself, MCgunner. Why would I lie about a TV commercial?

Not accusing you of anything. I'm sorry if it sounded that was, wasn't the intent. I'm simply pointing out that it ain't that far from the driver's seat of even the biggest car to the window where the perp in the commercial is standing (I guess, haven't seen it, just going on the post). I think I want more effective range than that. That's only a few feet. I'm not griping about you, but the idea of a .410 shot load for self defense.:D And, heck, I could close my eyes and point and hit the BG at that range with my .38. I just don't see the .410 in this application as much more than a short range snake load for those who can't hit a snake with a bullet. LOL

Cousin Mike
December 17, 2006, 12:47 PM
LOL! Understood, sir. Sorry about the confusion. I think I'm just frustrated because I can't find this damned commercial ANYWHERE! :neener: It's pretty cool to be able to see for yourself how the shot patterns at such close range... Leaves a nice big hole too. :D

I can definitely agree with you about the 7 yards thing though - I could imagine keeping .410 shotshells in it, but only for the car or at the range, for fun - which is why I really can't decide if I want one right now. Snakes and such too, but I don't run into snakes much in the concrete jungle. :D I'm not sure if I'd want to carry something where I'm constantly changing ammunition everytime I get in/out of the car...

But for strictly a car gun, or just for fun? I'd like to have one, I can't lie. I just have a tighter budget than some, and at the moment I have other purchases to make before I get back into "just for fun" territory.

December 17, 2006, 02:17 PM
Not sure where I read it, might have been on another forum, but the article noted that some shot sizes performed erratically due to the rifling in the barrel. They tended to stray off to on side or another. This was at longer ranges. At close range, it would be OK. I have a 4410 and my complaint is the grips. I replaced mine with some Hogue grips because the back of the trigger guard hit my middle finger and bruised it when firing. The Hogue grips push your middle finger down a little further and it's easier to control. I like the Taurus otherwise, but it's LOUD.

December 17, 2006, 03:00 PM
The TC .45/.410 barrel uses a screw on choke on the end of the barrel that also has straight rifling. The straight rifling stops the spin of the shot charge which is a good thing. It'd make the barrel a bit long on the Taurus, though, to have such an arrangement.

I bet that thing is loud with a .410 in it. :what: :D I'd keep it loaded with a mild 255 grain flat point .45 Colt or perhaps the silver tip Winchester load in a store bought round. What you COULD do in the car situation is stick a couple of .410s in there and the rest of the cylinders put .45 Colt in it. First couple of shots at close range. If it lasts longer than that, the range is apt to increase.

December 17, 2006, 03:06 PM
Having bought one of these when it first came out, it quickly became my most carried general woods pistol. It replaced a venerable old S&W .38/44 and has done several things for me at least all very well.

Now then, I've shot this gun a lot and have tried tons of different loads both in the shotshells/slugs as well as the .45 LC. Just guessing I'm thinking about 3,000 rounds overall at varying targets in all sorts of enviornments. By now I feel I have a fairly good idea what it can do with varying rounds.

I hunt frequently in bottomland hardwood forests along a river where timber rattlers outnumber the people about 1,000 to 1. The #7 1/2 shot .410 has shredded quite a few of those mean little varmints. Pretty much 100% one shot kills at anywhere from waay too close at 5-6 feet up to about 12 yards which is a fairly long shot on a snake that you're trying to hit in the head.

More likely than not I have the first two chambers stuffed with the .410 7 1/2's followed by some very hot Buffalo Bore .45 LC's with solid bullets near magnum velocities.

The first 2 shots are for either snakes or a lucky encounter with a nice swamp rabbit if they're also in season. Then I have the cannon like .45 loads for times like when I ran into a nice white tail about 50 feet away when only carrying a shotgun full of turkey loads. I slowly laid the shotgun down and then quietly cycled past the first two shotshell loads took a tree rested shot that dropped a sizeable deer on the spot.

I also like the idea of the strong .45 loads as backup should I ever get on the wrong side of a wild boar or black bear both which will come after you if ticked off.

All-in-all, I think this is a great woods carry gun if you need something for that purpose. Self defense? Guess it could fill that role if someone wanted it to as well. For the money, it's a real winner in my opinion.

December 17, 2006, 06:17 PM
It must be built on the bigger frame if it'll take those Buffalo Bore loads. That's Blackhawk only stuff. I've got a lot of snakes on my place, but they're really only a problem in spring. I wear snake leggings and carry my contender .410 in an uncle mike's shoulder holster when I'm working down there that time of year. If I jump a rabbit, I can nab him out to 20 yards or so. However, if I come on a boar hog, ain't like I can cycle it to a .45 load. :uhoh: That could be handly, LOL. No bears and I really don't worry about the hogs, but would like to take one if given the opportunity. I'm always up for a little pork. :D

I haven't had a problem shooting the heads off snakes with a bullet and often carry my .357 loaded first with a couple of .38s then magnum 158s like you do your .45 with the shot/Colt combo. But, I like having that contender on the occasion I jump rabbits. I've potted a couple with it. I ain't quite good 'nough to hit a running rabbit with a bullet. That .410 has a great rabbit gettin' pattern at 15-20 yards.:D

December 17, 2006, 06:51 PM
I use the standard pressure "heavy" .45 Colt load . . . 255 grain gas-checked cast bullet at 1050 fps. Recoil is not bad at all - about equal to the shotshells.

Cousin Mike
December 18, 2006, 06:34 AM
Just checked my local listings. :D

On The Outdoor Channel today @ 4:30pm (EST), a show called Shooting Gallery comes on. If you guys can catch it, you'll probably be able to catch the commercial for the Taurus.

December 18, 2006, 10:41 AM
I've seen the ad in question on the Taurus, but wasn't paying attention. If I see it again, I'll turn around from the computer. :D I watch outdoor channel a lot, good shooting shows. There's a NRA sponsored show, Shooting Gallery, all sorts of good stuff as well as all the hunting. I can't stand to WATCH fishing even though I fish. It's like watching paint dry. Seen one bass caught, you've seen 'em all But, they're always hunting somewhere different or some other animal, always a different situation in the hunting. I am getting to where I get a little bored with the tree stand and deer stuff, though. Seen one deer shot, you've seen 'em all. LOL

But, the other night they had a guy that drew one of 12 available tags for an Ibex in New Mexico. They were in the Florida mountains just south of Deming. I've been to those mountains, didn't hike there, but up to 'em at a little tourist trap park for a break with the wife and kid on vacation. There were Indian writing on the wall or something to see there, sort of a road side rest break/nature park run by the state parks department. The mountains sure looked rugged and they were saying they are the roughest, hardest to hunt mountain range in north America. These Ibex were given to the US by the Shaw of Iran back in the early 60s and are intensively managed and are in good population. This guy made this 350 yard shot on one with a 6mm Remington across a deep gorge, then it took 'em two hours to get to it, ROFL! Nice animal, too! I like that kinda stuff on the outdoor channel. They also have this thing "Tracks Across Africa" that's neat. I always enjoy watching someone pull the trigger on a 600 nitro express. LOL!

Cousin Mike
December 18, 2006, 04:33 PM
Good episode, no commercial. :cool:

Cousin Mike
December 21, 2006, 08:43 AM
Personal Defense TV (8:30am - 9:00 EST) is the show to catch if you want to see those pistol commercials. It's on right now, but since none of you are, I digress. :D

December 24, 2006, 01:26 AM
I'd love to have "the Judge" in my arsenal but I'd rather not fire it off in my car and blow my, (and anyone else's in the car) ear drums out.

I'll keep my eyes open and my windows shut.

Looks fun thought!

August 28, 2007, 12:18 PM
Hello all ... just joined up when I found this thread via google as I was looking for some thoughts on the 4410, Some years back, I did a lot of bird hunting, usually by river boat. There were times when you knocked the duck down, but not out. And I really didn't want to lay a 12 Ga 3" mag on him, but if you didn't, they would dive and goodby bird. So for that I had a early model TC in .44 mag, with the hotshot option. You loaded up the .44 shot capsule, screwed the choke on the barrel and it was just perfect to dispatch the downed bird without gutting them at the same time. We moved down here to MO almost 2 years ago, and there are snakes around the place. I had been looking for another TC as I had given mine to one of the kids. I saw the Taurus in the NRA Rifleman last month and think that will be just right for those cold blooded fellows.

August 29, 2007, 10:37 PM
I was just came across this thread and signed up also. I have handled these revolvers in gun stores and one thing strikes me about it immediately. It seems like a HUGE safety liability from Taurus.

What's to keep someone from sticking a .454 Casull in it and blowing their own face off when it explodes? Even a 45-70 would fit into that cylinder. you talk about picking your nose with your elbow for the rest of your life. It makes my ears ring just to think about it.

It's the same concept as the .38 vs .357 revolvers. The .357 is only 1/8 inch longer and that has nothing to do with room for powder. It's to keep some knob from feeding .357's into a .38 revolver and blowing themselves up.

You just can't go making guns that will chamber ammo that is too powerful for the gun to handle.

To me it is a stupid looking pistol and a pretty weak concept. If someone is trying to jack your car, what better form of defense is there than several rounds from a good medium caliber (.40 or 9mm) semi-auto high cap?

Although I have owned one of those Cobray Derrenger handguns that will chamber .45 lc or .410 shotshells. The barrel on them is only about half inch longer than the .410 shell. And you have to be careful not to hit your foot if you are shooting at a soda can on the ground 5 yards out. That sounds like an exageration but try it once.

August 30, 2007, 12:04 AM
Those cartridges will not fit. The cylinder is 45 Colt Brass diameter for only the length of 45 Colt. It quickly gets a little smaller so 454 and 460 S&W brass won't chamber. A 45-70 has no hope of being chambered --way too fat. The only danger is a 444 Marlin case, as that is what I use for longer brass shotshells. A .429 bullet won't engage the rifling, so hopefully the gun wouldn't blow up. But I'm not going to try and load a 444 Marlin load containing a bullet in mine.

August 30, 2007, 03:40 AM
Family member owns one. Basically mine.
Shot it. Don't care for it.
Accuracy is not good enough to 15 yards.
I'm sure some one will be along to tell me I'm not shooting it good enough.
But out of the 4 people that day, we all passed on it.
Only thing I can say is it would make a good snake gun.
I use it on the starlings, works good to 15 yards to the feeder.

And how can they eat so much?

December 26, 2008, 01:08 PM
I can't wait to get one of these. I carry a kimber Custom Shop Ultra Carry CDP II, but want a backup revolver. I love my semiautos, but nothing beats the dependability of a good revolver IMO. Anyhow, when I saw this gun I knew I needed one. Even filled with 7 shot or even smaller, at point blank range it will kill almost anything. Certainly any human. According to Chad Cleland, most defensive shooting is done when the attacker is less than three feet away. I'm really excited about this gun. I'll follow up with a review once I've shot a few rounds through it.

December 26, 2008, 03:38 PM
I have a polished SS model, 3" barrel, shoots 2.5 Shotshells, I have gotten to the point where I don't even mess with the shotshells much, I just use Georgia arms gold-dots and the BB standard loads in it....fun gun IMHO, it shoots better than my S&W 642 at 15 yards considering it is for close up defense.

December 28, 2008, 10:18 PM
I have a 3" model that i carry as my "tractor gun"....first 2 rds are birdshot followed by one buckshot, then 2 260gr LRN's.

It works GREAT for its intended purpose....groundhogs, skunks, putting that doe down because you just took her legs off with a disc mower, ect.

Oh, and it makes rabbit and squirrel hunting tons more fun.

December 29, 2008, 10:36 AM
My Judge will put all 3 000 buck balls completely through 4" of pressure treated pine at 15 feet. It will put -most- of the pellets of #4 buck through 1" of pine at 15 feet. (think face/head shot and blind BG).

Combine that with the fact that now I have a pattern rather than a single projectile (as in, wake up in the middle of the night and don't have time to put on my glasses), I'm happy with it.

It's a tool with a specific purpose ... close in defense, be it from your car or inside your home. At that task, I think it excels.

Am I wrong? Would a .410 shell from this pistol have enough stopping power, assuming that most of the shot from the shell hits the attacker? I would probably get the 4410 with the 4" barrel. So, the pattern would be nice and wide.

December 31, 2008, 06:32 PM
Where did you find #4 buck loadings in 410 -- did you handload or buy them? How many pellets are in them?

I've been working on some handloads to tighten the pattern. Using the "stretch wad" from Ballistic Products cuts the pattern down a lot (about 60% size, but the regular pattern is so huge that even cutting it in half is still rather huge). Next was to make a mod to the wad. My first attempt wasn't reliable -- some of my BB loads were 10-12" pattern at 7 yards, but two were 2" which is about what I was looking for. I've got another set of loads doen a different way to see if I can reliably get the patterns to this size for the BB loads.

I also made some 4 pellet OOO loads using 444 Marlin cases. I need to chronograph them, but I should be able to get them to the 850 fps level (based on total payload weight) which is faster than the 3 pellet OOO factory loads which America Rifleman indicated were in the low 800 fps range.

single stack
January 1, 2009, 08:01 AM
An interesting review can be found at http://www.theboxotruth.com/

It looks like a superior truck gun.


Be careful, the box o truth can eat up an hour of your day.

January 1, 2009, 09:58 AM
My bad ... it's #4 shot, not #4 buck. Winchester makes this load.

In the Judge most of the time I'll use it as a "lead off" round ... just to get somebody's attention, and aim a weee bit higher than center of mass (ie, a face shot). I think of it as the "go the hell away" shot. After that it's all 000 buck, with maybe a 45 Colt hollow point chaser.

Where did you find #4 buck loadings in 410 -- did you handload or buy them? How many pellets are in them?

June 22, 2009, 07:14 PM
My wife bought me The Judge for my birthday for a new toy. It has replaced my "half asleep bedroom gun". After shooting this beaut I had to re-think
.410. I started with the .45 and accuracy is what it is intended for. 1 qt water filled milk cartons go away easily at about 25 yards. The .410 at 20 feet also put them out of their misery. Perfect for my needs. I load with 3 Winchester 000 buck and the last 2, Magtech .45, 250 grain flat nose. If that don't work I'll use the Saiga 12 ga. It's not for conceal carry.

June 22, 2009, 08:33 PM
There are some new short barrel .410 buckshot loads out for the Judge now that I didn't know about when I last visited this thread. Interesting to see what the ammo guys can come up with for a short barreled gun.

June 22, 2009, 09:19 PM

What loads did you find and where at? I'm back in H-town in a few months and want to go shoot my Judge. I've been looking but haven't seen anything yet.


June 22, 2009, 10:27 PM
I've been hearing Federal has a new load out. Also, there's a small outfit putting out loads specifically for defense with a Judge. It's a net order deal, though. I've not yet seen the Federal stuff. With the current ammo situation, I couldn't tell ya where to look for it, just know they're hyping it.



June 23, 2009, 07:16 PM
To me, it seems like the 4410, loaded with the .410 shotgun shells would be great for home defense. It may be better than my LONG 12 guage.

Am I wrong? Would a .410 shell from this pistol have enough stopping power, assuming that most of the shot from the shell hits the attacker? I would probably get the 4410 with the 4" barrel. So, the pattern would be nice and wide.

Of all the guns in the world I'd rather be shot with, a .22 Short out of an NAA mini or a .410 shot shell from a Taurus would be a toss up.

June 23, 2009, 07:31 PM
Of all the guns in the world I'd rather be shot with, a .22 Short out of an NAA mini or a .410 shot shell from a Taurus would be a toss up.

Does that include 000 Buckshot ?

I've found my handloaded 3" shells with lead BB or even #2 shot are acceptable in penetration as a HD or VD choice, without endangering the kids down the hall or the dude down the street. Especially at realistic defensive range of 3-5 yards.

But leave the birdshot out of the HD picture unless that's all you can come up with, cause that is mighty weak even if your attacker is buck naked.

June 23, 2009, 08:06 PM
The new Federal stuff is pushing 1200 fps out of a pistol barrel with 4 .33" 000 buck shot. Personally, I ain't volunteering to be the test medium. :rolleyes:

junior geezer
June 24, 2009, 12:07 AM
000 buck is .36"; 00 is .33"

June 24, 2009, 07:46 AM

No, I was talking about "bird" shot.

But for the life of me I can't figure out why someone would want a gun that big and that heavy just to shoot a round that is marginal at best for bad guys (buck or slugs from handgun) or totally ineffective (bird shot).

Why not just get a .45 colt and save an inch? Or a .44 Special? Either will penetrate enough BG.

Heck a snub nose .38 will penetrate more BG than a .410 slug.

June 24, 2009, 09:31 AM
Of all the guns in the world I'd rather be shot with, a .22 Short out of an NAA mini or a .410 shot shell from a Taurus would be a toss up.

For your sake, you had better pray it's a 22 short out of a mini and not the 3 to 5 000 buckshot pellets per round out of a Judge. Think 3 - 5 38 special rounds per pull of the trigger.

June 24, 2009, 11:58 AM
To those wishing to view the commercial or video on the Judge's effectiveness during a carjacking, it can be found on the following link. He demonstrates the "pulverizing" power from his car at minute 1:41 on the video.



June 24, 2009, 01:11 PM

Now try it with something other than paper.

June 24, 2009, 01:20 PM
Think 3 - 5 38 special rounds per pull of the trigger.

000 buck is still only 73gr./pellet

38 SPL is 125-158 gr. I'll keep my .38, thanks.

June 24, 2009, 03:24 PM
Buy a standard handgun like a Glock 19 or a SW Model 10. Load it with quality SD ammo. Learn how to use said gun in self-defense scenarios.

Much better solution that some gimmick gun. Just my IMHO. I dislike the idea that it is pushed for the untrained as some guaranteed stopper that you don't have to aim.

June 24, 2009, 04:13 PM

Now try it with something other than paper.

Agreed. While I thought I was beyond being surprised by advertising antics, one has to admire the chutzpah of someone using Shoot-N-C targets to illustrate anything's "pulverizing power".

Or, as Birchwood Casey puts it:
These revolutionary self-adhesive targets explode in color upon impact. And the bright yellow ring around the bullet hole is visible to the naked eye – allowing you shot after shot without interruption. So forget hunting for cans; load up on SHOOT-N-C targets and let the fun begin!

I guess we'll get a demo of the awesome power of a .45 Colt cowboy round next via a jug of Tannerite. (http://www.tannerite.com/)


But, whatever else, you gotta give this thread props for having more lives than a cat. It started late 2006 and struggles ever onward.

junior geezer
June 24, 2009, 04:13 PM
000 buck is still only 73gr./pellet

73 grains and .36 calibre. think of it as one round fired from a judge being the same as being struck by 3-5 balls fired from a navy-calibre bp revolver. and the fact that a .36 navy revolver might fire a ball at 1050 fps really doesn't figure in...

it is a fact that, specific to the Kansas-Missouri border war, when powder supplies ran low, the Missouri "ruffians" were ordered to load their revolvers--inconsequential of calibre--"half-charge only." the troopers having done so, there were no complaints from those in the field--men engaged in combat--as revolver performance had not suffered.

June 24, 2009, 06:51 PM
I guess this thread will go the same as the other "The Judge" pissing contests have....too heavy....too big.....bad shotgun.......poor .45 Colt accuracy.......birdshot, slugs, and on and on and on.

Some of us like/hate 9mm, .380, .22, .40 yada yada yada.

Is a birdshot loaded .410 shell out of a short barrell a good choice for defense ? Compared to a garden rake, yep. Compared to a well placed .45 JHP ? Guess that comes down to the term "well placed". What are the statistics regarding the average number of rounds fired versus the number that strike the intended target ? By a large margin, lots of shots fired do not come close to being well placed. What happens to the ones that miss ? They all hit something unintended, maybe only the ground, but maybe not.

Now, the arguments for or against The Judge are usually whether or not it does this or that the best. In my personal scenario, I'm pretty worried about possibly killing my kids down the hall or the dude pumping gas down the street. When I load 32 lead BB into a 3" .410 shell, I'm choosing a compromise between safe and lethal as it works for me. Best choice ? How can we ever know ? The best choice is always going to come down to whatever you're holding in your hand when the proverbial SHTF,be it gun,knife or baseball bat. And let's not forget that we're talking a realistic range in a defensive encounter of 3-5 yards.

Sure, #6 birdshot is not a good choice unless that's all you have, so take advantage of the fact there is a choice. 000 buck ? Now were getting warmer, and of course .45 Colt is real fine in most everyone's book, and my Judge shoots it pretty good

Gimmick gun ? No worse than those peewee .22 cal revolvers a lot of folks stuff in their pockets every day.

It's the choice of what I want to stuff the cylinder full of that makes it fun to shoot.

And like a lot of other guns out there, if your opinion is based on something other than shooting The Judge, well heck, you're just whistling Dixie I guess.

June 24, 2009, 07:13 PM
000 buck is still only 73gr./pellet

38 SPL is 125-158 gr. I'll keep my .38, thanks.

Why does that matter? Do you think the 000 has insufficient penetration? To me, that's the only reason to increase the weight. If the balls expanded like a 38 special, then that would reduce penetration. And you're still getting 3-5 simultaneous "38 special" shots with each pull of the trigger. That has to have some additional effect, but I don't think anyone really knows how to quantify multiple projectile terminal ballistics.

The lower weight projectiles are a benefit if you're trying to reduce range and collateral damage from pellets that miss or over penetrate. And to me, that's the whole purpose of this gun.

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