Yet Another Danger of Trigger Locks


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tellner
December 16, 2006, 10:13 PM
From Detroit (http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061216/NEWS06/612160316/1008):

DETROIT: Gun goes off at police HQ, injures man

An unidentified man shot himself in the hand and thigh Friday afternoon as he attempted to pry a trigger lock off a gun in front of Detroit Police headquarters. He was at police headquarters to register his gun.

Commander James Tolbert said the man is not a police officer, but officials were trying to determine if he is a reserve officer.

Detroit reserve officers receive similar training in handling weapons as police officers. The gun was not a department-issued weapon, Tolbert said.

The man is in serious condition at Detroit Receiving Hospital.

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crunker
December 16, 2006, 10:16 PM
How stupid.

hockeybum
December 16, 2006, 10:31 PM
dee-dee-dee

VARifleman
December 16, 2006, 10:49 PM
My dad put a trigger lock on his marlin 39a after my mother pitched a fit about having guns in the house when my brother and I were young. He put this on after he took the bolt out of the rifle and put it in the safe deposit box. Why she felt both were necessary, I'll never understand. We put it back together and found the trigger lock, of course, released the hammer when the lever was closed. Surprise surprise, it made the gun more dangerous.

Wesson Smith
December 16, 2006, 10:59 PM
Hmmm. Never had a problem with trigger locks, myself. They seem pretty straightforward to me. I just use them as a secondary safety device when transporting my weapons, but they seem to do the job in a pinch.

wizard of oz
December 16, 2006, 11:01 PM
although obvious, perhaps it needs restating that the post of the trigger lock goes behind the trigger

migoi
December 16, 2006, 11:30 PM
trigger locks (safes and lock boxes are more my style), but I was under the impression that the first rule of applying a trigger lock was UNLOAD THE GUN.

I could be wrong of course.

migoi

hueytaxi
December 16, 2006, 11:34 PM
Trigger locks simply negate the term weapon. Will never own one. We have guests with children, the guns are locked away. I own guns for collection, for nostalgia and defense. The defense guns are always available, loaded and safe. Of course, they are also lethal to the misguided curious. I'll take the risk rather than have to find the key to my gun lock or unlock the safe in the middle of the night.

Wesson Smith
December 16, 2006, 11:40 PM
The rubberized Master Lock trigger lock will not budge, if secured correctly. Weapon loaded, or otherwise.

Hemicuda
December 17, 2006, 12:38 AM
If I were to USE a gun-lock of ANY kind, I would much prefer the CABLE locks, as I can put them around the HANDLES of the GUNCASE, and then proceed to open the case and remove the weapon WITHOUT removing the lock...

that said, I have a glass front display case in my living room, with ALL the gun locks I have recieved with my guns tacked up to the back panel, all still in their original wrapper...

I have NO INTENTION of EVER locking up the mechanism on ANY of my guns... that would just turn them into ergonomically challenged clubs!

instead of locking the guns away from the kids in my house, I do like Dad did... I EDUCATE the kids about them... I was around guns literally from BIRTH, and have yet to injure or kill somrthing I didn't MEANT to shoot...

SnWnMe
December 17, 2006, 12:43 AM
You have to go to police HQ with your gun?

Sharps-shooter
December 17, 2006, 01:07 AM
how would a trigger lock work on something like a ruger #1? there wouldn't be anything to hold the post in place behind the trigger? I've only ever seen one kind of trigger lock, perhaps there are others.

Wedge
December 17, 2006, 01:10 AM
Don't ever travel cross country with your locked shotgun in the trunk and then show up for dove hunting with a cable lock still on and no key in sight! Fortunately I had my leatherman with me and was able to cut through the thing!

Mainsail
December 17, 2006, 01:18 AM
He was trying to pry it off? You can easily pick those with two paperclips.

Flyboy73
December 17, 2006, 03:39 AM
I am show up at Sheriff dept all the time with guns. In MI there is a purchase permit to buy a handgun(CCW holders Are exempt). After the purchase you take the gun down to apporiate law enforcement office (in my county sheriff office) for a saftey insecpetion:barf: . This so called insepection is just really a gun registration.

Brion

WeedWhacker
December 17, 2006, 07:09 AM
The rubberized Master Lock trigger lock will not budge, if secured correctly. Weapon loaded, or otherwise.

I have *personally* popped off a locked rubber-shrouded Master-branded trigger lock off a Hi-Power using a single Craftsman blade screwdriver. Not recommended, as I'd knocked a small spot of the finish off of the trigger guard. (That pistol was unloaded, FWIW.)

Sleeping Dog
December 17, 2006, 12:08 PM
You have to go to police HQ with your gun?
I've had to take guns to the police HQ for the MI "safety check" (we don't call it registration). For that trip, they wear trigger locks. But THEY ARE NOT LOADED when I take them into the station. And I don't think the cops would want anyone prying on the lock. They'd probably tell me to come back when I have the key.

gezzer
December 17, 2006, 11:15 PM
although obvious, perhaps it needs restating that the post of the trigger lock goes behind the trigger

Perhaps it needs restating trigger locks are not to be put on LOADED GUNS period! Duh!:banghead:

Ryder
December 18, 2006, 05:48 AM
After the purchase you take the gun down to apporiate law enforcement office (in my county sheriff office) for a saftey insecpetion

They've never have asked me to see a trigger lock when I got one registered. I can guarantee you there was not one attached to any gun I ever took in there. Can't help but tease the poor merchants when they make me sign that government paper saying I was provided with a lock. :neener:

Sounds to me like the guy didn't shoot himself because of the trigger lock as much as it happened just because he has no familiarity with firearms. Bet he regrets volunteering now.

Onmilo
December 18, 2006, 11:25 AM
And this brain surgeon never considered unloading the weapon BEFORE he installed the trigger lock??????

Axman
December 18, 2006, 07:00 PM
although obvious, perhaps it needs restating that the post of the trigger lock goes behind the trigger

Impossible for those firearms with a solid trigger (no gap behind the trigger).

Gbro
December 18, 2006, 07:37 PM
A Trigger lock,Most often will alow firearm to be loaded, First must be designed for a perticular gun. Ie. The "Master Trigger Lock was designed for a double action revolver. But if you were to read the instructions on the packageing it will tell you to , if unable to insert the bolt behind the trigger to place it in front and squeeze it real tight.
Trigger locks became a political issue, therefore logic whent out the window.
I pleaded with the Enforcment division of the Minnesota DNR(firearms safety training is under this department) to stop this missuse of the trigger lock, They wouldn't touch the issue "Too Political"
Operation Home safe, and Project Child Safe give out cable locks, as do some manufactures. This type of lock is much more universal.
There is another style called the envelope, this one is designed for certain style actions http://www.themilitarytrail.com/servlet/the-875/Life-Jacket-Hand-Gun/DetailIe. the slide action shotgun, etc. Very nice and some can be mounted to a pillar, or wall. There are tigger locks that have a motion alarm, Then there are the manny diferent integral locks, These can be easly defeated like any lock.

Gun Safe, that is the best of the best.
I would recomend the electronic key-pad. Although mine failled me and i am using a dial for now. The dail is a real pain but the security is worth sitting on many sharp tacks!!

Gbro
CGVS

ChopperKen
December 19, 2006, 06:53 AM
I have taken handguns in for inspection with a triggerlock on them,
The police got handed the gun with lock attatched.
All they need to do they can with a locked gun, Saftey check?
It's regestration not saftey,They don't need to have it unlocked to register the serial #.
Now I just take them in in my range bag without locks and ask for a free lock or two while I'm there(them cable locks work on bikes,sheds,propaine tanks....) :)

dfaugh
December 19, 2006, 10:36 AM
Being a safety concious and responsible gun owner, I have a lock for every one of my guns.





They sit on the shelf, above my ammo boxes/cleaning supplies!

Geno
December 19, 2006, 10:50 AM
Why was it loaded at the PD, if not an LEO?

How do I get the lock behind the trigger on my NAA mini-revolver? Maybe it's defective? Maybe it's unsafe...no, couldn't be...it's had it Michigan "safety inspection".

Psych. :)

Doc2005

Zrex
December 19, 2006, 11:31 AM
Don't blame the trigger lock. If there is one thing folks around here ought to know by now its not to blame inanimate objects for the actions of stupid people.

tellner
December 19, 2006, 11:36 AM
Blame them for stupid actions? No.

Blame inherently dangerous design for making simple screwups more dangerous? Certainly. I also blame knob-and-tube wiring and deep-fat turkey fryers for a lot of deadly fires.

Sleeping Dog
December 19, 2006, 11:43 AM
Blame? For putting a trigger lock on a loaded gun and taking it to the police station? What's to blame?

From the story, it looks like the Detroit police are trying to figure out if the guy is a reserve police officer. I guess they don't keep lists of reserve officers.

Flyboy73
December 20, 2006, 01:32 AM
"Blame inherently dangerous design for making simple screwups more dangerous? Certainly. I also blame knob-and-tube wiring and deep-fat turkey fryers for a lot of deadly fires."

I really fail to see how a trigger lock is inherently dangerous. Its another inamite object. A trigger lock on a unloaded Firearm (as it should be), dosn't make it more dangerous.

Brion

WeedWhacker
December 20, 2006, 03:31 PM
They're inherently dangerous because they present a false sense of security. They are supposed to render a firearm inoperable, but they do not work at all on some firearm types (lever action), and on the ones they do, they can very easily be defeated by a ten-year-old with a blade screwdriver.

Even if the screwdriver couldn't or can't defeat some of the "best" models (I've not popped off a trigger lock for some time), two minutes with a cheap Dremel sure will...

Flyboy73
December 21, 2006, 02:00 AM
I suppose you could say a inexpense safe would be inherently dangerous . As the same 10 year with a crow bar could get into to it in a couple of minutes.

Brion

WeedWhacker
December 22, 2006, 02:37 AM
I believe one of the main security features of cheap RSCs is that moving the RSC and its contents is less convenient. Anyone can pick up a trigger-locked gun and sneak it out to the garage... I'd like to see the same ten-year-old manage to cart away the RSC (even if some do weigh a pathetically small amount, ~150lbs).

Then there's the fact that a trigger lock can be removed and replaced without the key and also without any obvious evidence that it was removed in the first place. At least with a crappy RSC, you'll know if lil Bobby has been at it with a crowbar. Assuming he didn't cart it off somewhere.

WinchesterAA
December 22, 2006, 04:59 AM
anyone else find the wording of that article kinda funny?

"Reserve officers recieve similar training"

kinda implying that cops are trained to pry trigger locks off and shoot stuff they don't mean to..

Dorryn
December 22, 2006, 09:58 PM
The rubberized Master Lock trigger lock will not budge, if secured correctly. Weapon loaded, or otherwise.


I have *personally* popped off a locked rubber-shrouded Master-branded trigger lock off a Hi-Power using a single Craftsman blade screwdriver. Not recommended, as I'd knocked a small spot of the finish off of the trigger guard. (That pistol was unloaded, FWIW.)

In addition, MasterLocks are probably THE easiest lock to pick. I have trained even the most novice user of locksmithing tools in less than 15 minutes how to pop one of these off. Why bother? It wont slow down a BG, and it WILL slow you down protecting yourself.

Flyboy73
December 23, 2006, 01:26 AM
The trigger lock is not to stop a BG. I doubt most children have lock picking tools. And if they dohave them, they can also pick the lock on the safe.

BTW i took one my real cheap trigger locks off. I stuck a flat screw driver into it and could not unlock it. (i was not trying to break it just turn it, to unlock, I also didnlt use a really small flat head, just the one i had sitting on bench)

I guess 10 year olds must be better at lock picking then me. :o

Brion

WeedWhacker
December 23, 2006, 03:14 AM
BTW i took one my real cheap trigger locks off. I stuck a flat screw driver into it and could not unlock it. (i was not trying to break it just turn it, to unlock, I also didnlt use a really small flat head, just the one i had sitting on bench)

I didn't explain the method I'd used very well. I didn't attack the keyhole at all. I'd simply jammed the blade screwdriver into the small void between one half of the trigger lock and the trigger guard, then gave it a good twist. The locking mechanism is too delicate, and that relatively small amount of force from the screwdriver blade being twisted popped open the mechanism, allowing both lock halves to be removed. (In order to completely remove the lock halved, I believe I may have had to torque both lock halves in opposite directions once there was enough "open space" between the lock halves to get my fingers around.) In the process, the finish on the pistol's trigger guard was marred in a small spot.
The lock didn't appear to be damaged, as it still "locked" when put back on the pistol, and the pistol was lated used, proving that the key still opened it as well.

So, it's literally child's play to remove a trigger lock without either the key nor damage to the lock (and without doing obvious damage to the firearm), and it can be replaced without any obvious sign that the lock was removed.

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