CCW/CHL permits & TSA screening?


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Kor
December 18, 2006, 02:08 AM
These questions came up at yesterday's CCW class, for which I did not have a ready answer:

- When TSA does an ID check at the airport security checkpoint, are they automatically informed of, or have the option/ability to further investigate, whether an individual has a CCW/CHL permit?

- If so, do CCW/CHL permittees then get subjected to additional searches/screening?

Thanks in advance for your answers!

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GRIZ22
December 18, 2006, 03:58 AM
TSA does not care if you have CCW or not. How many states have their CCW holders in a computerized database? Thinking they have the ability to find out you have one instantly is tin hat and black helicopter stuff. Do they have the ability to check and see if you have one? I'm sure they can if they want to take all the time to do so. Why would they want to give you a more intensive screning? You go through the metal detector which is so sensitive I had to take my pants off once because they had too many zippers.

Old Dog
December 18, 2006, 04:11 AM
- If so, do CCW/CHL permittees then get subjected to additional searches/screening?
Even IF TSA could access this info (and one suspects that would be giving TSA way too much credit) - WHY would licensees be subject to "additional" searches/screening? Getting one's CCW/CPL/CHL means one has passed a background check by at least one or more government agencies. One is thusly certified by one's state as a card-carrying Good Guy (or Gal).

Sorry, man, but to suggest that having a state-issued concealed carry permit would cause one to incur more government scrutiny when one is going to fly commercial is indeed ... heading down that road toward the wearing of tinfoil hats ...

jrfoxx
December 18, 2006, 07:12 AM
I've had a CHL for over 3 years now, and have flown about 10 times since I've had it, and have seen no evidence that TSA either knew, or cared about it.Never had any "extra" screening in my life, with or without permit.

30 cal slob
December 18, 2006, 08:45 AM
TSA doesn't ask to see permits for garden variety stuff. However, they WILL give NFA stuff more paperwork scrutiny. If a local law enforcement notices (county or airport police) what you are packing, they almost always will make inquiries if a permit is required to POSSESS the weapon.

For the most part TSA assumes you can lawfully possess and transport to and from your place of origin.

Last trip I made with two Glocks, I simply had a handwritten note that said "I am declaring and transporting in locked luggage two lawfully owned firearms and ammunition."

They looked at 'em scratched their heads, and ran an explosive residue patch over 'em, and closed 'em up.

If you are packing ammo, they will open your bag to examine it ... AGAIN.

Fly320s
December 18, 2006, 09:23 AM
Kor,

When TSA checks your ID at the screening checkpoint all they are doing is matching the face and name on the ID to your face and the name on your boarding pass. All TSA cares about your name is whether you are the guy named on the airline ticket.

Now, if you get pulled aside to the "back room" then maybe local law enforcement will get involved. If so, the local LEO has the ability to to determine if you have a CHL, but I doubt that the local TSA guys have the ability.

TallPine
December 18, 2006, 12:40 PM
Sorry, man, but to suggest that having a state-issued concealed carry permit would cause one to incur more government scrutiny when one is going to fly commercial is indeed ... heading down that road toward the wearing of tinfoil hats ...

Yeah, that would be almost as crazy as thinking that the cops would use a SWAT team to arrest you for overdue parking tickets just because you have a CCW permit ... :rolleyes:

:uhoh:

Old Dog
December 18, 2006, 02:22 PM
... the cops would use a SWAT team to arrest you for overdue parking tickets just because you have a CCW permit ... Case cite, please.

Apples to oranges. Getting on a commercial airliner for travel is hardly similar to being the subject of an arrest warrant due to being suspected of having broken the law.

hso
December 18, 2006, 02:35 PM
I have a carry permit.

I usually check a gun through in my check baggage.

I usually use my permit as my photo ID.

I don't seem to get any special treatment.

The point about carry permit holders having already undergone a background check and therefore being less of a risk is very logical.

Lennyjoe
December 18, 2006, 03:06 PM
No.

My son works for TSA and confirmed that they do not know or have the ability to check to see if your a CCW permitte or not. Only ones that have that ability is the LEO's in the airport.

JLStorm
December 18, 2006, 03:24 PM
I read a post on packing.org about actually using the permit as ID for the TSA, the post had lots of replies from people who do this and none ever reported a problem.

TallPine
December 18, 2006, 06:51 PM
Case cite, please.

There was such an incident that was the subject of much discussion on THR a short time ago.

gbran
December 18, 2006, 07:26 PM
I've never had extra screening or hassle even when checking a gun in my luggage.

Zundfolge
December 18, 2006, 07:44 PM
Even IF TSA could access this info (and one suspects that would be giving TSA way too much credit) - WHY would licensees be subject to "additional" searches/screening?

Because its those crazy white Christian right wingers that get CCWs, don't you know anything?


Seriously, I would expect TSA to treat me WORSE if they knew I had a CHL.

Most statist thugs trust law abiding gun owners LESS than they trust would-be terrorists.

GRIZ22
December 18, 2006, 08:33 PM
Keep in mind TSA screeners are "security" personnel not LEOs. As such they do not have access to LE computer systems. They have to get a real cop if they wanted to check your driver's license.

Kor
December 21, 2006, 04:02 AM
To all who responded, "much grass" - now that I've got the skinny, nobody will ever ask me this question again...:rolleyes: :D

Finch
December 21, 2006, 07:54 AM
Seriously, I would expect TSA to treat me WORSE if they knew I had a CHL.

You'd be suprised how many of us have CHL's. Many of my coworkers already posess or are in the processes of getting theirs (thanks in small part to me).

Contrary to what the TSA bashers would like to think, most employees of the TSA are not gun ignorant drones. :banghead:

And no, TSA does not have access to local CCW databases.

ilbob
December 21, 2006, 08:21 AM
Contrary to what the TSA bashers would like to think, most employees of the TSA are not gun ignorant drones.

I think most people are pretty much gun ignorant drones, and being as TSA selects its employees from the ranks of human beings I would not be surprised if most of them turned out to be gun ignorant drones.

There are probably geographic areas of the country where far less people are gun ignorant, and I would guess the TSA people in those areas might well be less gun ignorant.

Eleven Mike
December 22, 2006, 06:44 PM
Sorry, man, but to suggest that having a state-issued concealed carry permit would cause one to incur more government scrutiny when one is going to fly commercial is indeed ... heading down that road toward the wearing of tinfoil hats ...Yikes! Was the guy suggesting it was a good idea to double-check CCW holders? Or was he worried it was being done? Looks like the latter to me.

Kharn
December 23, 2006, 01:34 PM
I fly about 25 round-trips a year, I havent had a problem yet due to my CCW.

Kharn

Spreadfire Arms
December 23, 2006, 08:59 PM
- When TSA does an ID check at the airport security checkpoint, are they automatically informed of, or have the option/ability to further investigate, whether an individual has a CCW/CHL permit?

no. they are not law enforcement and thus would not have access to the Texas database of CHL holders. only sworn law enforcement can access the database. all other persons can request in writing at DPS on a specific person, but only get the person's name, DOB, and if they have a CHL or not. conversely, the CHL holder gets notification from DPS of the identity of the person who requested the information about you.

- If so, do CCW/CHL permittees then get subjected to additional searches/screening?
i am a CHL instructor and have never been subjected to additional searches or screening. a few months ago i flew through Austin Bergstrom Airport (Austin, TX) and some TSA guy acted as if he had the authority to arrest me because i tried to put a loaded magazine containing ammunition into my checked bag as they were fingerf***ing my pistol just to make sure that it wasn't a bomb (it had already been declared, checked, and tagged at the airline counter, but some TSA guy had to look at it again). needless to say i filed a complaint against the TSA employee who implied he had powers of arrest and that he gave my ammunition from my magazine (eight rounds of .45 hollowpoint) to the airport police who i know took them home and shot them and didn't fill out any report. TSA confiscated my ammunition without any lawful authority to do so and surrendered them to a cop that i didn't even get to speak to. i asked for a written property receipt for the seizure but of course they said it was TSA's policy not to give out any property receipts for items they seize.

im sure things to full-circle and someone, somewhere, will give this or another TSA employee the scroogie so he'll get his. :D

GHF
December 23, 2006, 11:47 PM
The TSA wants a Government-issued picture ID to minimumize the ability of someone faking it. It limits the possibility of being phaque.

I use my CCW from Florida - the one on my current renewal that has my previous address; I got an updated addressed one that stays in my wallet. In that way, my driver's license - the most common government-issued ID - stays secure in my wallet also, and my passport stays either at home or in my travel document holder.

Before I used my olde addressed CCW, I used a Florida state license for selling life, health, and annuity insurance. It has a picture, and it was/is the one government picture ID that losing would have the least affect.

Ed Ames
December 24, 2006, 12:50 PM
1) NO, the TSA screener cannot access a database that says you have a CCW
2) Yes, the TSA knows whether you have a CCW

When you are issued a boarding pass, there is an area where special codes are printed which tell the screeners a few relevant facts about you. The most significant use of that code area is to tell the screeners whether you must go through a pat-down and bag check. That flag is not random.

A couple of years ago I went from a "flies every 10 years" type to a "flies every month or so" ... after four trips in as many months, I hit a period where I had five "must screen" boarding passes in a row. That was also right around the time I got a student pilot license. Then the checks stopped and I haven't had one in 15 months. That's anecdotal and all the usual disclaimers apply but if it wasn't an intentional pattern somebody really screwed up.

Simply put, the TSA has a LOT of information about you and they use that information even when they promise not to.

Recent Article (http://news.com.com/Feds+Homeland+Security+project+didnt+protect+privacy/2100-1029_3-6145796.html?tag=nefd.top)

Now, as to whether a CCW will trigger screenings, that depends on the TSA profile of CCW holders. Since CCW holders are on average exemplary citizens, I suspect that having a CCW reduces your chances of additional screening, but that's just a guess.

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