Incendiary Ammo


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armedpolak
December 19, 2006, 10:59 AM
www.ammunitiontogo.com is selling Incendiary Ammo.

any practical purpose for self defense? what would it be good for?

EDIT: they also sell tracer ammo. is that stuff legal for private use?

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Justin
December 19, 2006, 11:06 AM
Yes, tracers, and to some extent, incendiary rounds are legal.

No, there's really no need for them.

carterbeauford
December 19, 2006, 11:07 AM
No practical purpose for SD, but tracers sure are fun to shoot.

50caliber123
December 19, 2006, 11:08 AM
when you need to start a bonfire, it would be a very good round. Incendiary ammo has been making matches obsolete for some time now. :rolleyes:

Biker
December 19, 2006, 11:11 AM
Given enough time and the right circumstances, there may indeed be a use for such ammunition. Why not have some on hand? You don't have to use it if you don't need to. Much like a gun...

Biker

Henry Bowman
December 19, 2006, 11:15 AM
I'm with Biker. If circumstances change so that you do need it, it will no longer be available. Better stock up now. Just a few round would likely be enough, if and when it was ever needed.

goon
December 19, 2006, 11:18 AM
Ammo like that is a whole lot of fun.
Isn't that enough of a purpose?
Most of my shooting is done expressly for that purpose.

1911Tuner
December 19, 2006, 11:40 AM
First rule for tracers: They work in both directions. You've got a varying distance before they light off so as not to pinpoint your location exactly...but it wouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out after about three rounds.:scrutiny:

Another thing to keep in mind is that they burn, and even tracer can ignite a sizeable fire in dry conditions. If that fire spreads to private property with ensuing damage...guess who is liable. When a tracer hits, it usually emits a large shower of sparks, and can even break the base off, sending the glowing remnants of the burning compound sailing away to parts unknown...and it can go quite a distance. Be extremely careful where and when you play with tracer. Be double-dawg careful with incendary-based ammo. It burns longer and hotter than tracer. Clean your bore thoroughly after use. Then clean it again.

El Tejon
December 19, 2006, 11:46 AM
Yes, they do burn. They can even set fire to a berm in the heart of green and rainy Yankeeland as a certain THR member found out a few years ago while shooting 8mm tracer.:uhoh::D

Self-defense use? Only if things are really, really bad.:uhoh: Mostly this stuff is for the range toys.

I use tracer for my HK91s, bottom few are tracer so I know I'm low. I have incendiary ammo as well. No real purpose in mind, except I know the government does not like me having it, so I have a bunch.:)

TexasRifleman
December 19, 2006, 11:50 AM
No real purpose in mind, except I know the government does not like me having it, so I have a bunch.

I'm going broke trying to keep up with what they don't want me to have!

Get the tracers, while you are at it pick up some AP as well :evil:

JesseL
December 19, 2006, 01:20 PM
A, ahem, friend of mine had a great time with some 7.62x39 incendiary ammo and a few small propane tanks at the local gravel pit a few years ago :D

taliv
December 19, 2006, 01:27 PM
I'm going broke trying to keep up with what they don't want me to have!

join the club!

DogBonz
December 19, 2006, 01:34 PM
but if you happen to have an abandonded car an a gravel pit, they could be a lot of fun...

Joe Demko
December 19, 2006, 01:55 PM
Store it carefully. The tracing compounds and incindiary compounds seem to have a somewhat shorter shelf-life than the primers and propellants.

Henry Bowman
December 19, 2006, 02:11 PM
A, ahem, friend of mine had a great time with some 7.62x39 incendiary ammo and a few small propane tanks at the local gravel pit a few years ago This is a major part of the "show" at Knob Creek!

Also at night, it is fun to see the tracers that ricochet straight up. They don't go as high or as fast as you might expect.

And, yes, use responsibly -- especially in dry weather.

El Tejon
December 19, 2006, 02:18 PM
*whistles, looks around, kicks rocks*

:uhoh:

ArfinGreebly
December 19, 2006, 02:35 PM
Incendiary Round (noun): (Beverage Service) Ordering a serving of very low quality or unacceptable foreign beer for everyone in the bar.
See also: Inflamatory drinking protocols.

SniperStraz
December 19, 2006, 02:41 PM
Tracers are alot of fun, I like to keep one or two at the bottom of a hi cap mag incase you lose count. The only downside is that it sets things on fire as mentioned many times b4 and they also leave all kinds of junk in your pipe. Dont know much about incendiary rounds.

Ilovemyglock
December 19, 2006, 02:48 PM
I love tracer rounds,i put them every 3rd round in my AK 75 rd. drum when im shooting it "john Wayne style"

dfaugh
December 19, 2006, 02:59 PM
Always thought they would be useful in a magazine, alternated with AP, on the one-in-a-million chance you need to "light up" a vehicle.

Not that I would ever do such a thing mind you....

Henry Bowman
December 19, 2006, 03:03 PM
As long as we are on some tangents...

At Knob Creek in October, the night shoot included a minigun firing off a full belt of tracers. Looked like a laser beam. :D 250 rounds in ~8 seconds. Better than just money --> noise; money --> noise + light!

Car Knocker
December 19, 2006, 03:19 PM
The use of tracer or incendiary ammunition may be restricted by federal, state or local laws. For example, 36 C.F.R. 261.5 prohibits the use of tracer or incendiary ammunition in National Forests (before someone says, Well, Duh!, in the West a National Forest may not have much in the way of trees and the primary vegetation may be some sort of patchy scrub). In Utah, U.C.A. 65A-3-2 is an ambiguous statute that, depending on interpretation, prohibits the use of this type of ammunition anywhere other than military property. Of course, Utah, being the second-driest state in the Union, has a vested interest in reducing the threat of fire.

Ian
December 19, 2006, 05:03 PM
Incendiary ammo may not be too useful, but it is fun - especially at night. I did some shooting at 1-lb propane tanks at night with some 1944-manufacture .303 Brit incendiary a while back. It didn't ignite the propane (too much liquid propane and not enough oxygen to ignite, I guess), but it did make for some neat long-exposure photos.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=49557&stc=1&d=1166565721
(The round went through the tank, ignited, and was deflected a bit before hitting the backstop)

Gelicious
December 19, 2006, 06:34 PM
These rounds are indeed fun, but also worry me. If they were to get into the hands of someone who wanted to cause trouble and chaos, they could fire them at an upward angle and just like an incomming missle they would plumet to earth with explosive power. Meanwhile Miles away the person who shot the rounds into the air walks away.

1 old 0311
December 19, 2006, 06:59 PM
ANY Gasoline container.:evil:

Jerry Morris
December 19, 2006, 07:05 PM
These rounds are indeed fun, but also worry me. If they were to get into the hands of someone who wanted to cause trouble and chaos, they could fire them at an upward angle and just like an incomming missle they would plumet to earth with explosive power. Meanwhile Miles away the person who shot the rounds into the air walks away.

Statements like these are what will cost you your Rights. What is the title of this thread? Who mentioned explosive rounds? Miles away, in which caliber? The legitimate concerns of the liabilities of tracer and incindiary rounds are bad enough, magnifying the issue with out of topic explosive rounds and their threat levels is foolishness.

Vague, unsubstantiated statements like these make you look like an antigun nut.

Jerry

jeepmor
December 19, 2006, 07:06 PM
While packing a pistol in the woods. It would be nice to be able to signal for help if needed. Like the blokes currently stuck on Mt Hood, hopefully alive. I'm betting a well timed flare like bullet in the air could save their frozen bacon about now.

And there is no fire danger in the snow in winter right now. In summer season, not such a good idea.

Note to self - propane tank needs to be almost empty when shooting with tracer/incediary rounds for full effect.

jeepmor

Car Knocker
December 19, 2006, 07:34 PM
they would plumet to earth with explosive power.
Explosive power???:confused:

1911Tuner
December 19, 2006, 08:06 PM
Quote:

>they could fire them at an upward angle and just like an incomming missle they would plumet to earth with explosive power.<
***************

Ummmm...No. The tracer/incendary compound burns up within about a thousand yards, give or take. By the time it got back to the ground, it'd be all nice and cold.

If you were bein' facetious, disregard the previous comment.:D

carterbeauford
December 19, 2006, 08:28 PM
I did some shooting at 1-lb propane tanks at night with some 1944-manufacture .303 Brit incendiary a while back. It didn't ignite the propane (too much liquid propane and not enough oxygen to ignite, I guess), but it did make for some neat long-exposure photos.

I have shot many of those tanks and never had one blow up. Tried dousing them with gas, actually throwing them in a fire, everything. The cold propellant usually puts out the fire. Started to get expensive at $2.50 each so I gave up.

Ian
December 19, 2006, 09:09 PM
The tracer/incendary compound burns up within about a thousand yards, give or take.

Not to be nitpicky, but there is a difference between tracers and incendiaries. The incendiary bullets I have don't have any exposed compound like a tracers does; they only ignite when the jacket is ruptured (I think it's a phosphorus compound, and ignites on contact with oxygen).

One of these bullets could theoretically be used the way Gelicious is concerned about. Except that you can't aim a bullet that way, and the amount of incendiary compound is so small as to be almost certainly harmless when fired at a random spot (or rather, no more harmful than any other bullet).

The cold propellant usually puts out the fire.
Yeah, that was my experience too. :mad:

I did almost destroy my car windshield with one (fully pressurized) bottle that came whizzing back towards me when I hit it, though. :eek:

jeepmor
December 19, 2006, 09:22 PM
It needs to be nearly empty. When you punch a hole in it when it's full it has so much gas around that it actually exceeds the UEL (upper explosive limit). On the other side of the coin, if there is not enough gas/liquid in the tank, it will not have enough fuel/air and will be below the LEL (lower explosive limit). Finding the right balance is the ticket, exactly where that is, I'm not sure. But it will be closer to empty than full.

Like a auto's gas tank, a spark is of the most danger when it's nearly empty and there are lot of vapors present.

The high pressure liquid, normally a gas at atmoshperic pressure, is flashing to gas and sucking all the heat it can from it's environment to change back to a gaseous state. It's called latent heat of vaporization.

RecoilRob
December 19, 2006, 09:27 PM
You guys aren't hitting the propane bottles with a BIG enough incendiary bullet. The Blue Tip 50 BMG round WILL light up a 1lb every time and have also done a half-full 10 pounder.

The 10 pound tand blew up with an impressive fireball (felt the heat back 60-80 yards) and then burned on the ground for a few minutes. The 1lb are the tip...they go BOOM with a big fireball and then go flying off trailing fire. DON'T do this unless the ground is sopping wet!

hockeybum
December 19, 2006, 09:31 PM
well, you could always shoot the guy breaking into your house with the incendiary ammo.... :evil:

thatd be fun to watch, b******d tries to break into your house and finds himself on fire

Sunray
December 19, 2006, 10:27 PM
"...to see the tracers that ricochet straight up..." That's not the bullet. It's just the trace element that has come off the bullet upon impact.
Trace is not the same as an incendiary. You'd have to have very dry range conditions to start a fire with trace.
"...done a half-full 10 pounder..." At Second Chance long ago, they ran a night tracer festival. Targets were 10-100 pound propane tanks, 25 or so 25 pounders, gasoline, a car, a couple of refrigerators and, of course, some fireworks at roughly 500 yards. About 15 or so shooters with assorted rifles, a Vickers MG and a .50 BMG. The trace did nothing but poke holes. The elements were out by the time they got there. Lovely white cloud gently spreading over the ground. Then Dick Davis opened up with the .50 using trace and some incendiaries. The gentle cloud turned promptly into a great big fireball. Not a single propane tank even moved.

cpileri
December 20, 2006, 06:30 AM
http://www.tacticalforums.com/cgi-bin/tacticalubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=78;t=001048#000002

pics of the insides of the ammo in question. hope it helps.
C-

SDC
December 20, 2006, 09:27 AM
Here's a pic of some of the .303 and 7.62x54R cutaways I've done; L-R, a BIV Incendiary, a Buckingham Incendiary/Smoke Tracer, and an Italian AP-Incediary (these three all use white phosphorous inside the jacket as the incendiary payload), with a 7.62x54R API on the right that uses a magnesium/potassium dry incendiary compound that ignites under pressure (all replaced with yellow putty in these cutaways).

http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p22/StaceyC123/Incendiarycutaways.jpg

thirty-thirty
December 20, 2006, 10:11 AM
I shot a 1# full propane cannister once at about 60 yards with a 762x39 incendiary round. No explosion, just a big ball of fire. The strangest thing happened when I went to look for the can. I couldn't find it. I started walking back to the shooting bench and there it was, about 10 yards closer to the bench than it was when I shot it.
I was puzzled at first. The can had a small entry hole and a larger exit hole. When the gas escaped from the can, the greater amount of gas escaping the exit hole propelled it towards me.

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