How does the XCR stack up?


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Generic Username #1
December 19, 2006, 08:17 PM
I've been looking at getting a Robarms XCR. (http://www.robarm.com/xcrtm_modular_weapon_system.htm) For the money they seem comparable or better than an AR, with the added benefit of being able to swap barrels in under 2 minutes and firing other calibers.

Has anyone here fired one? Can you guys help me find more info about them?

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El Tejon
December 19, 2006, 08:21 PM
Boy, of all the posts I WISH I could answer!:banghead:

Where are those Mormons kids?

Car Knocker
December 19, 2006, 08:31 PM
Where are those Mormons kids?
Lots of doors to knock on between here and there.

Generic Username #1
December 19, 2006, 08:41 PM
Is there an inside joke I'm missing here?

Zero_DgZ
December 19, 2006, 08:54 PM
I can change calibers on an AR, too. 2 pins (they're even captive) and dropping on a new upper and off I go...

Ian
December 19, 2006, 09:06 PM
The company making the XCR is in Utah, Smegmalicious, as are the THR guys who run a shop selling a bunch of Robinson Arms products.

modifiedbrowning
December 19, 2006, 09:39 PM
El Tejon, this took me about 2 minutes to find.
XCR GunsAmerica (http://www.gunsamerica.com/search.cgi)

LoadedDrum
December 19, 2006, 09:57 PM
I have fired the two I own. My favorite feature is the adjustable gas port. On the max setting the recoil feels like an AR with a carbine gas system. Once you turn it to the second highest setting, the recoil is noticeably less than that of an AR with a rifle gas system. My Eotech stays on target the whole time. Other things to like include:

The handguard profile is smaller than alot of AR quad rails.

Less cleaning due to the gas piston.

The mag sits higher in the gun so feeding is more reliable

The stock is lower so the irons are aquired faster. (not so good for magnified optics but not so bad as to be a serious problem)

Choice of folding, collapsing, or folding and collapsing stocks.

Quick change barrel makes cleaning a snap and seems to hold zero very well.

The bolt has fewer, but larger and stronger lugs than the AR and is easier to clean (except for the extractor which is a royal pain to remove).

Generic Username #1
December 19, 2006, 10:02 PM
How was the accuracy?

For my budget its looking like AR or XCR, so any info will help.

LoadedDrum
December 20, 2006, 09:50 PM
I am getting about 1.5MOA with adcom 855

ny32182
December 20, 2006, 11:13 PM
I've got to say that on paper, I really like what the XCR has to offer.

Quite honestly: The lack of major military testing/usage to improve the design is what scares me about it. Seems like without the backing/financing/support/development dollars of a major military, you end up with rifles that are great in concept, but poor in execution. Example: M96, etc, etc, etc.

These piston ARs (yeah, I know the XCR isn't an AR) are all the rage these days, and everyone likes to talk about their reliability on the internet, but to the man, everyone I have spoken with who saw one used in an intensive carbine class said the new piston uppers were considerably more apt to fail than the time proven modern DI uppers. Why? The answer is that they don't have 45 years of R&D and worldwide military use behind them. When they do, maybe then they can match or exceed a classic AR, at least in terms of reliability.

That said, I'll still be following the XCR reports closely. The "new" rifle that really intrigues me the most is the FN SCAR entry. I believe that platform has been through exhaustive military trials in its current form, is based on the old FNC, and if it is introduced to the market in a true milspec-minus-the-happyswitch form, I believe I would buy with confidence. The Sig 556 may also fall into this category, depending on how much the upper shares with the European military 550 uppers. This is also yet to be seen, but time will tell.

George Hill
December 21, 2006, 12:18 AM
"The answer is that they don't have 45 years of R&D"
And all the changes in those 45 years of R&D were done in the first couple... such as chrome lined barrels and including a forward assist. All the changes since have been about barrel lengths and upper receiver configurations for attaching sights and lights. Nothing since Vietnam has been about function, because the .Mil has been pushing "Just Clean It" down everyone's throats.
The new Piston AR's are only answering 1 of the AR's several issues.

Zak Smith
December 21, 2006, 02:28 AM
All the changes since have been about barrel lengths and upper receiver configurations for attaching sights and lights. Nothing since Vietnam has been about function, because the .Mil has been pushing "Just Clean It" down everyone's throats.
I am pretty sure this is not true, at least if you take configurations other than 20" A1/A2 into account. Armalite did the first work on carbine vs. mid-length gas systems and the effect of gas port location on reliability. The M4 reliability study at Crane resulted in the various O-rings now used as standard to help extraction. There are also new bolt designs being used to aid bolt life and/or reliability, e.g. change of lug opposite extractor to balance forces; and the various LMT and other "enhanced" bolt designs.

swingset
December 21, 2006, 03:48 AM
"The answer is that they don't have 45 years of R&D"
And all the changes in those 45 years of R&D were done in the first couple... such as chrome lined barrels and including a forward assist. All the changes since have been about barrel lengths and upper receiver configurations for attaching sights and lights. Nothing since Vietnam has been about function, because the .Mil has been pushing "Just Clean It" down everyone's throats.
The new Piston AR's are only answering 1 of the AR's several issues.

Rubbish.

Correia
December 21, 2006, 10:54 AM
as are the THR guys who run a shop selling a bunch of Robinson Arms products. Used to be. :) We were the 2nd largest Robarm dealer in the country, but that was before the Veprs quit coming in.

I wrote a SWAT magazine review of the XCR a couple of months ago. You can get it in PDF format from www.swatmag.com. I could try to condense a 2,000 word article for you, but it would probably be easier just to read the actual article.

El Tejon
December 21, 2006, 11:17 AM
Correia, went back through my old issues a couple of days ago. Cannot find this article that you keep referencing? Which month is it in???:confused:

ny32182
December 21, 2006, 11:20 AM
Hmm... I looked all over that website, and they have a nice large image of the cover, but I don't see PDF's anywhere?

El Tejon
December 21, 2006, 11:23 AM
Great, a vaporarticle about vaporware!:D

ny32182
December 21, 2006, 11:41 AM
The issue is Oct. 06.

El Tejon
December 21, 2006, 11:42 AM
Great, I'll check it out, did not see it when I got it.

ny32182
December 21, 2006, 11:48 AM
Its the main cover feature.

...maybe all this vaporware stuff is just the result of a lack of paying attention? :D

Coronach
December 21, 2006, 12:04 PM
...Nooooooooooooo! :D

Correia
December 21, 2006, 12:31 PM
El T, how could you miss it? It has PvtPyle on the cover looking all sorts of cool. (I needed a model) :)

Generic Username #1
December 21, 2006, 02:34 PM
Can you take the upper off the lower, or is it permanently affixed? It looks like it would be tough to clean if you can't.

El Tejon
December 21, 2006, 05:34 PM
Don't know, I've been breathing heavy for an XCR since what . . . SHOT Show in January of '06? Never saw the article, now sometimes I get busy, but SWAT is usually pulled out of the mail stack, along with SAR and SGN. I'll check after I get home from yoga and martial arts tonight.:)

Kaylee
December 21, 2006, 07:23 PM
Well cool -- I just purchased the article from SWAT online.

I am still seriously thinking of getting one, though the crude looking bolt carrier arrangement I admit is a little off-putting.

Mr. Robinson has mentioned that the front pin pushes out with a cartridge point, so I presume it takes down like an AR there, yes?

Larry, PvtPyle, others who've played with one -- how secure is the barrel lockup? How does it swap out, and are you confident it won't slip or lose zero with the "quick swap" feature?

So far it looks good on paper... I just wish it was being made by a guy who didn't have so much ego riding on it. :(

Glock Glockler
December 21, 2006, 07:53 PM
Does anyone know of any torture tests on the XCR? Apparently it's more reliable than the AR or AK, if so, I'd like to see it go through some nastiness and still fire.

El Tejon
December 21, 2006, 09:42 PM
O.K., have the issue in front of me, October '06. No XCR article. Maybe a unicorn ate it or someone cut it out with the bayonet from a Title I XM8 or Georgia produced HK91. Imaginary critters destroying imaginary articles about imaginary guns (for zombies, bears and pumas)--it's like a THR thread or something.:D

I'll have to go like Kaylee and order it, maybe Rich will send me a new issue as I do not have the article included in mine?

Then some day when the moon is blue and earth spins the other way, I'll have an actual XCR in my paws and can write a follow-up article for SWAT. Heck, just having me field strip the XCR will be a torture test.:D

modifiedbrowning
December 21, 2006, 09:53 PM
El Tejon, see post #7, or just go to GunsAmerica or any auction sight and you can buy an XCR. Hell, have your dealer order you one.
The whole Vaporware thing is getting a little silly don't you think?

LoadedDrum
December 21, 2006, 09:58 PM
I am still seriously thinking of getting one, though the crude looking bolt carrier arrangement I admit is a little off-putting.

Mr. Robinson has mentioned that the front pin pushes out with a cartridge point, so I presume it takes down like an AR there, yes?

Larry, PvtPyle, others who've played with one -- how secure is the barrel lockup? How does it swap out, and are you confident it won't slip or lose zero with the "quick swap" feature?

It does take down like an AR in terms of the front take down pin and in the back it is like an AK except that the piece you push in on the side. As far as barrel lock up it is nice and tight. I have had the barrel off five times I one of my XCR's and it holds zero very well. I have never felt the need to adjust the optics.

El Tejon
December 21, 2006, 10:06 PM
Modified, nope, put one in my paws. The gun industry has flat out lied to us time after time after time. I want to hold one before I buy one. Until I see it is no much vaporware and unicorn waste.

Tried the dealer route (including my NFA guys), all are telling me no dice on XCRs. I know why this is but will not breach THR PM confidentiality.:D

Kaylee
December 21, 2006, 10:17 PM
El T -- from the dealer I talked with today (CCA out of Knoxville) it needs to be directly ordered from Robinson. Apparently they haven't entered the normal distrubution system, but they are obviously out there.

Loaded -- thanks for the review and information! I really appreciate it!
Hrmm.. how does the balance compare to a similar barrel length/weight AR?
Is the carrier/piston a full length piston, like the AK?

And I'm not quite certain yet from what I've read -- can I order the thing with just a (folding?) base that will accept an AR stock tube, or do I need to order it with a complete stock?

Juna
December 21, 2006, 10:19 PM
Can one of you post a pic of an XCR? And how much does it cost? What caliber? Sorry for the newbie questions. I recall reading something about the XCR a long time ago, but I wasn't aware they were available to US civilians yet. Guess I'm out of the loop.

Kaylee
December 21, 2006, 10:40 PM
Juna --
http://www.robarm.com/xcrtm_modular_weapon_system.htm

El Tejon
December 22, 2006, 09:09 AM
Kaylee, all my guys tried that direct route too, no dice, no guns. I know why, but I cannot breach THR confidentiality.

ramis
December 22, 2006, 01:14 PM
So is it worth paying $1200+ for an XCR compared to a 800 to 900 dollar armilte,bushmster,RRA?

ramis

Evil Monkey
December 22, 2006, 04:09 PM
Everything I've heard about the XCR is what I want in a rifle. Long stroke piston, ambi bolt catch, left side charging handle, etc, but I'd definitely be happy with an $800 M4gery fitted with a tac-latch.:)

ny32182
December 22, 2006, 07:08 PM
I was under the impression that it was a short stroke piston?

Also, there is now a rumor going around that the XCR has won an overseas military contract. Any one else heard this or have any more info?

LoadedDrum
December 22, 2006, 08:39 PM
The XCR has a long stroke action. The piston has two protrusions welded on to it that mate to slots in the bolt carrier. The balance of the XCR is similar to that of a 16" RRA (the conventional heavy under the handguards models) and much better than that of the POF uppered DSA AR's I held at the NRA convention. Despite the pencil barrel you will not confuse it for a superlight AR anytime soon. Is it worth it over a 900 dollar Bushmaster? Well lets put it this way, I had a Bushie M4gery and sold it to pay for one of the XCR's (still have three ARs so don't think I am a hater).
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-11/1109649/IM000021.JPG

grizz
December 22, 2006, 09:47 PM
Loaded Drum: how is the fit between upper and lower on your XCRs? The one I handled the other day in a local shop was pretty loose. Nowhere near loose enough to effect the operation of the weapon, but relatively loose compared to my perfectly tight RRA AR. It was probably just a bad example.

I instantly liked the XCR, but I would like to see a dust flap on it. Probably doesn't need one, but I like the idea of keeping the innards of a battle rifle protected from the elements while not in use.

Also, what seems to be the going price on these? My shop's XCR was $1400.

LoadedDrum
December 23, 2006, 10:34 AM
Both of mine are as loose as you describe, ie they do not impair function nor pose any problems but will not be mistaken for an RRA NM upper and lower anytime soon. As for price I have seen the stripped units go for $1249-$1349. If you can buy it that way, do it. That way you can get better front and rear BUIS than the YHM's. Also if you prefer rail covers other than the Falcon Egro grips you can do that too.

VictorLouis
December 23, 2006, 04:34 PM
Is the safety lever reversible for the south-of-paw?:)

LoadedDrum
December 23, 2006, 05:30 PM
I have not tried but I do not think it is.

Langenator
December 23, 2006, 05:43 PM
IIRC, an ambi safety is an option.

ny32182
December 24, 2006, 12:15 AM
Yeah, unless something has changed, an ambi selector is a factory option.

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