.308 or 7mm-08


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crowsnest2002
December 20, 2006, 01:36 AM
Which would you choose for a moderate range rifle on varmints up to whitetail deer. Probably range would be 300yrds max. Also reloading can be an option.

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K.L.O.sako
December 20, 2006, 08:23 AM
i know the 308. right ammo and right gun, you'll hit pop cans at 300yds however i don't know the 7mm-08 cant say for sure. 308 ammo is cheap too.

rbernie
December 20, 2006, 09:08 AM
The 7mm08 and 308 are both fine chamberings for whitetail deer and both will dispatch songdogs with authority, but both are a bit of overkill but usable for smaller varmints... The 308 probably gives you a little more SPLAT factor for hogs and such, but the differences will be largely unnoticed under most conditions. In turn, the 7mm08 has (on average) a wee bit less drop at 300 yards than the 308 due to its slightly more aerodynamic bullets. The difference is probably no greater than an inch or so at 300 yards, with a widening gap as the distance increases. I call that all a wash for your stated purposes.

In the end, I'd make the decision based not upon technical differences, because inside of 300 yards and on thin-skinned medium game - you'll not see much performance delta between the two. I think that ammo availability is a far more important factor, and in that regard the 308 wins.

I'd choose 308.

Shawnee
December 20, 2006, 09:12 AM
7mm - O8

:D

gunny1022
December 20, 2006, 09:32 AM
Made the decision to shoot the 7mm-08 in NRA Metallic Silhouette because of the superior ballistic coefficient. Bullet drops less at 500 meters where wind speed is a big factor. Less recoil and after match shoot pop cans at 500 meters!

Hutch
December 20, 2006, 09:37 AM
Pay no attention to Shawnee.:neener:

.308 for many reasons. For silhouette, Gunny may have a point about the 7, but for many, many reasons, the .308 is a better choice.

More readily available factory ammo.
Milsurp, while getting harder to find, is available for plinking.
If you reload, then:
Brass is commonly available
Many, many more bullets to choose from in 30 cal.

Essex County
December 20, 2006, 01:06 PM
Got a bunch of experience with both. Both are great and each is a handloader's dream. I currently use a 7-08 A Bolt more often than not. Good bullet selection in both. Either way you don't have a problem..Essex

Powder_Burn
December 20, 2006, 01:26 PM
I would choose .308 only because there is a wider variety of factory ammo available. Other than that, peformance is very close between .308 and 7mm-08.

However, for a varmint and deer combo rifile, I would probably go with something in the 6mm/.243 cartidge family over the above anyway.

~z
December 20, 2006, 01:27 PM
Pound for pound the 7mm bullet will provide a higher BC if that influences your decision at all. If you reload, all that plentiful .308 brass folks are talking about becomes 7-08 brass pretty easily. I shoot and load for both but usually grab the 7-08 on my way out the door for deer/hogs inside 300 yds. If you do not reload, you will find more choices in off the shelf ammo for the .308 though.
~z

Lambo119
December 20, 2006, 01:33 PM
.308 only because of cheap surplus ammo and more selection in factory loads. But the 7mm is a fine choice as well just more costly to shoot.

WYO
December 20, 2006, 02:38 PM
For those purposes, unless you're talking about super small critters like prairie dogs, I'd standardize on a 120 grain bullet in 7mm-08.

ArmedBear
December 20, 2006, 02:40 PM
The 7mm-08 is probably the better round.

If you don't mind loading it yourself, it's the better choice.

If you have to rely on factory ammo, though, .308 will be a lot cheaper and easier to deal with.

rockstar.esq
December 20, 2006, 04:00 PM
First off the 7mm is Metric :neener:

Second, the academic differences that may favor the 7mm are following the same school of thought that brought us such meaningless additions as the .204 Ruger, and the Super short magnum line. A few hundred fps (if that) and a couple of inches difference at most reasonable ranges equates to just another marginally accepted wildcat that accordingly gets a maximum of two loadings per manufacturer. Personally I'd rather not have some PITA caliber that I can't easily find ammo for. If I were to buy a 7mm it'd be a Remington Mag, not a metric tag a long of the greatest 30 caliber cartridge extant!

ArmedBear
December 20, 2006, 04:48 PM
the greatest 30 caliber cartridge extant!

That's sort of funny, if you're dissing WSM's.

Don't get me wrong, I don't own or plan to own any WSM rifles, and I have nothing against the .308.

But the .308 is nothing but the civilian name for a government project to stuff the .30-06 into a shorter case. For hunting use, it's inferior to the longer but otherwise identical .30-06 by every measure (couple hundred FPS, range of bullet weights) except for the fact that it does indeed fit into a shorter case and hence a compact rifle if that's what you want.

The .308 is the original project that had the same objectives as the WSM's, and it surely inspired the WSM's, since, in principle, it's the same thing: a short-action version of a proven high-power hunting round.

Furthermore, a couple of inches doesn't matter on deer, but it does on smaller game and varmints.

~z
December 20, 2006, 05:08 PM
would it be better if we call it a .284"?
~z

dakotasin
December 20, 2006, 05:44 PM
7-08 is the most useful hunting cartridge there is. i have 308's, and i have 7-08's, and while i am in love w/ my 308's, i gotta admit the 7-08 is the superior cartridge. everything from superior trajectory to lighter recoil favors the 7-08. and all that great 308 brass? yep, run it thru your 7-08 sizer die, and you now have great 7-08 brass.

Pumpkinheaver
December 20, 2006, 10:21 PM
You can't go wrong with either cartridge.

wanderinwalker
December 20, 2006, 10:36 PM
I say flip a coin. Either one will do the job.

After debating the same question recently, I've settled on picking up a .308 barrel (for my Encore) and running with it. Anything a 7mm can do can be done with a .30 caliber. At the end of the day, I'd be happier with a 180gr .30-caliber bullet moose hunting than with a 160gr 7mm bullet, though either will work. (Cue advice for monster magnums and big bores only for moose hunting here. ;) )

As a bonus, .308 factory ammo is readily available. Either cartridge is a handloader's dream (as is the also very similar .260 Remington, a cartridge I love dearly but no longer own). Brass is a non-issue for a reloader; common .308 and .243 cases can be turned into either the 7mm or 6.5mm rounds easily.

Yeah, flip a coin. I may still get a 7mm, but I doubt it!

rangerruck
December 21, 2006, 03:28 AM
but for varminting up to white tails, with handloading , all time fave/ 6mm remmy.

Colt46
December 21, 2006, 03:47 AM
the 7mm-08 will do everything the .308 will do with less recoil.

Nematocyst
December 21, 2006, 03:52 AM
A few months ago, I did exhaustive research on these two calibers, looking for that "perfect" centerfire rifle (because of my lifestyle, I only want one) for a "take any game in North America south of AK" rifle, mainly deer (whitetail, blacktail, mulie), antelope, and - in a pinch - elk (not high on my list).

At least a few people contributing to this thread endured my never ending questions :banghead: trying to distinguish between .308 and 7mm08 with respect to trajectory, recoil, ammo availability, etc.

At that time, I decided unequivocally it was going to be 7-08. I liked its trajectory and lesser recoil. I wasn't concerned about range of bullet size or ammo availability (since I planned to stockpile and ultimately reload).

Since that time, in a quirk of fate, I've revised my plan. As soon as finances allow (soon, I hope), I'm going to invest in a Marlin 336 in .30-30. (I realized that, for my needs, hunting deer in dense temperate rainforests of my region, the .30-30 is a better option: the ammo is cheap and widely available, and I like levers better than bolts.)

But suffice to say that, if I decide to add a second centerfire rifle to my toolkit for longer shots in more open country east of here, it'll be a 7mm-08.

Nem

ArchAngelCD
December 21, 2006, 04:32 AM
If you're not reloading yourself the .308 is probably a better choice. Most factory ammo for the .308 is available in 125gr, 147gr, 150gr, 165/68gr and 180 gr giving you a wide variety of choices for different game. The 7mm-08 seems to come in mostly 140gr and Remington has a 120gr round.

aspade
December 21, 2006, 06:55 PM
IMO, the recoil and trajectory advantages of the 7-08 over its parent aren't big enough steps to be worth giving up the availability, variety, and reasonable price of .308 factory ammo.

7mm 140s have a BC about 10% higher than .30 caliber 150s you can launch at about the same speed. This is meaningful when you're playing 600 yard silhouette games, but at 300 yards the difference is literally less than half an inch of drop and less than an inch of drift in a 10mph crosswind.

Now take the same concept one step further to the .260 Rem and you're onto something.

With 120 to 125 grain bullets, it essentially matches - even betters by an inconsequential bit - the 7-08/140 and 308/150 in trajectory with a further reduction in recoil while still carrying plenty of bullet for deer.

With 95 to 100 grainers, it beats anything you can do with a 7-08 or 308 by 250-300fps and is head and shoulders a better long range varmint gun.

For your stated applications, I can't imagine a better cartridge.

possum
December 21, 2006, 07:45 PM
.308 ammo is cheaper, and easy to come by almost everywhere, and it will do just fine at 300yds +.

Nematocyst
December 21, 2006, 07:51 PM
I totally hear what you .308 advocates are saying.

And, I suspect that you're right, too, in most respects.

Still, funny thing is, after reading so much about the two over months, for some unexplainable reason, probably in large part irrational intuition :rolleyes: , the 7-08 calls to me louder.

But like I said earlier, I got other fish to fry first.

<sounds like calling a dog>
"Here, .30, .30, .30..."

crowsnest2002
December 21, 2006, 09:35 PM
What about Rem 700sps .308 anyone have experiences with it????? What about accuracy????

rockstar.esq
December 22, 2006, 01:45 AM
All I can add is that my .308 Winchester holds .5 MOA at 600 yards with five shot groups. The recoil difference is a silly affectation of the mind. The trajectory still curves like everything else so it's not like you can ignore rangefinding. Given the oft quoted 125 yd max for most game animals everything from the .22 hornet to the 600 nitro is basically a point and shoot proposition. At 600 yards a 5mph breeze (barely makes tall grass move) has about twice the windage difference as any proposed difference between the 7mm-08 and .308.

Plus at the aforementioned 600 yards, the .308 is hitting 40ft-lbs harder and has dropped 3.32" lower than the 7mm-08. Given the choice, I'd rather hit harder at such a distant target considering that both cartridges would require severe dial ups to make a hit. All my results are from Remington Shoot. The more you play with that program the more you realize that most stuff just isn't all that different in terms of performance.

Armedbear, I think the obsession with the 30-06 being superior should be curtailed given that the NRA 1000yd target was reduced in diameter BY HALF after the .308 Winchester was introduced. NONE of the WSM's or magnums have achieved anything like that massive leap in performance. Plus and this is significant, the 300 Winchester consumes A LOT more powder than the 30-06 to achieve a whopping 200fps more velocity. The short magnums are slower than their long action counterparts which sort of negates the whole point. Considering the simple fact that the .308 Winchester is the most chambered centerfire caliber I'd say the 30-06 isn't holding the aces as you contend. I don't want to take the position that the difference between a 30-06 and the .308 Winchester is all that amazing in terms of hunting because I genuinely think that you can't go wrong with either caliber. The lower price, greater accuracy, and ballistic similarity to the 30-06 make the .308 Winchester my pick.

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